Nationals *spoiler*

moonshine

mroli wrote:

Good luck Moonshine...

jibberjim

Pross (or I guess anyone else who might know) Are there any group rides that ride out on the Saturday? I'm down for both would be good to find a group to ride with?

I'll probably be just stuck near the start / finish for both races with the Toddler in tow and no room in the car to take the trailer to get about.

Pross

Cwmcarn used to go out on a Saturday morning from Caerleon and there is sometimes a social ride out from Abergavenny Leisure Centre on a Saturday morning at 10.30 (steady / slow? ride of about 1.5 hours) that a few parents go on whilst we coach their kids. I think Pontypool may also have something on a Saturday afternoon (it's about a 20 minute drive from Abergavenny), I can check. There's also the sportives going on, you could always ride around with them on one of the routes.

Pross

Jim, Pontypool RCC are going out on Saturday afternoons at 1.45pm meeting at the Harvester (just off the junction of the A4042 so conveniently between the time trial and road race locations). They've said you'd be welcome to join them and they usually go about 90km. If you fancy it keep an eye on http://www.guestbookcentral.com/guestbook.cfm?guestbook=40488

jibberjim

Pross wrote:

Jim, Pontypool RCC are going out on Saturday afternoons at 1.45pm meeting at the Harvester (just off the junction of the A4042 so conveniently between the time trial and road race locations). They've said you'd be welcome to join them and they usually go about 90km. If you fancy it keep an eye on http://www.guestbookcentral.com/guestbook.cfm?guestbook=40488

Cheers Pross, that looks a pretty good option, have to see what Maryka's day before race plan is, but I may well be there.

Pross

My guide to the Nationals:-

Time Trials

The circuit (about 12.1 miles with just under 1,000 feet of climbing, twice for elite men) starts in the Celtic Manor hotel grounds at the hotel entrance. A quick sprint through the grounds brings them onto Catsash Road that runs between the original resort of the Ryder Cup 2010 golf course. This is about 1.5 miles on a narrow country lane but not too technical with the roads closed. There's a couple of short, sharp descents the last of which takes riders over the A449 and should give them speed to keep going up the short rise the other side. However, they then turn tight left and keep climbing for about 300m and this could catch out anyone who hasn't recce'd the course properly. From that point it's downhill for around a 1.5 miles on quite a narrow lane but again it shouldn't be too testing with no traffic.

The route is then a rolling wider lane running parallel to the River Usk and A449 until just after the 5 mile point where there's a fairly tight 90 degree left hand bend back onto narrower lanes again. The road crosses the river on a picturesque bridge and passes the Newbridge restaurant (possible place to view with a pint but check in advance!) then climbs in two steps, each about 0.5 miles at around 7 - 8% with a flatter 0.5 mile section between. The second climb is on a very narrow lane with a tight hairpin. It's then into a fairly straight descent to the main Usk road but the surface may be a bit gravelly unless it gets swept. The bottom of the descent could see a few spills as people take a tight turn onto the Usk road. This is a nice, wide and rolling 2.5 mile section that will give them a rare chance to get into their rhythm before they take another tight left into the grounds of the 2010 golf course and back across the river to start the final tough climb back up to the hotel. The final climb is around 0.5 miles with the second half being between 10 and 17%. There's a short downhill section back to the hotel entrance to finish the lap.

Away from the obvious favourites, out of the domestic testers I would say the course could suit someone like Matt Clinton who seems to do well at the Beacon Little Mountain TT as this is a similar course profile albeit a shorter length.

mattsccm

Hi
Is there anyway to find a more detailed map that works.
There is a link to one above but to see detail you have to zoom right in and then you can't see the route. To see the whole route you lose site of which roads are used. The GPX file does nothing for me, just asks if it wants to open. Up the Wye valley there are plenty of spots to watch and both the TT and road race can be watched several times with a bit of clever motoring and local knowledge.

Pross

There was quite a good zoomable map previously but it seems to have gone. There's also an error on the TT GPX file, the proper route doesn't include the one 0.5 mile 8% climb and the dodgy descent which is probably a good thing! I've been saving the GPX files and loading them in Ride With GPS.

Pross

Might struggle to watch the TT from more than one location due to the road closures. Road race should be fairly easy to catch in 2 or 3 locations on the main loop. Biggest problem will be finding places to park and stand on the climbs especially with just a rolling closure in place.

Le Commentateur

Looks like a possibility of a bit of showery weather early Thurs evening, which should make those dodgy descents and tight turns interesting.

Mad_Malx

Pross wrote:

Might struggle to watch the TT from more than one location due to the road closures. Road race should be fairly easy to catch in 2 or 3 locations on the main loop. Biggest problem will be finding places to park and stand on the climbs especially with just a rolling closure in place.

Guide to carparks for the TT:
http://www.nationalroadchamps.co.uk/app/uploads/TransportAndParkingArrangments_june14indd.pdf

ocdupalais

What with all this talk of equality, glad to see BC continue to patronise the ladeeez by letting them do only one lap of the TT course. 13 miles is still a jolly long way - and besides, riders like Pooley haven't been riding long - and only have likkle leggy-weggies!

moonshine

OCDuPalais wrote:

What with all this talk of equality, glad to see BC continue to patronise the ladeeez by letting them do only one lap of the TT course. 13 miles is still a jolly long way - and besides, riders like Pooley haven't been riding long - and only have likkle leggy-weggies!

i believe the ladies course length (and mens for that matter) is governed bu UCI regulations.

moonshine

Updated start sheets, times & rider numbers sent out this morning

neonriver

moonshine wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

What with all this talk of equality, glad to see BC continue to patronise the ladeeez by letting them do only one lap of the TT course. 13 miles is still a jolly long way - and besides, riders like Pooley haven't been riding long - and only have likkle leggy-weggies!

i believe the ladies course length (and mens for that matter) is governed bu UCI regulations.

I know for Worlds and Olympics Women TT is restricted to 20-30 km but can be up to 40 km outwith.

Men's are 40-50 km in worlds and Olympics (though I think that was broken at last years worlds) and up to 80 km outwith.

moonshine

Yes, you are correct. I checked the UCI handbook which confirms this

greeny12

It's always fun to look at the start list and see riders and particularly teams (such as VC Meudon) I know well from my time as a local bike racer appearing in such rarified company! Good luck to them all.

okgo

Well anyone can enter Greeny, I don't think anyone who tried to enter got turned away.

Good luck to them all, poor Botty, hell of a man to have starting two mins behind you...

Mad_Malx

^Is this right? Surely they need some qualifying points? (not that I planned entering)

okgo

Well you need to b 2nd cat or above, that, I think, was the only barrier to entry in the TT from what I can see and I remember reading that nobody seemingly didn't get a ride...

moonshine

I'm 3rd cat, but that is principally coz I race TTs which don't attract points.
There would be a limited no of start places, if over subscribed, entry would be selected on merit, which would prob be a mix if cat and qualification times. I don't think a full quota was reached, hence the 2 min gaps extending quite deep into the start order . I guess a full field would be 70 or 80 riders. That would mean a 6:30 start and last rider off at 8, with the last 5 or 10 at 2 min gaps

Pross

Going to miss all the top riders as I need to leave by 7.30 but should get to see them warming up. They've got the spectating nicely sorted with the car parks and shuttle buses though

upton

neonriver wrote:

moonshine wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

What with all this talk of equality, glad to see BC continue to patronise the ladeeez by letting them do only one lap of the TT course. 13 miles is still a jolly long way - and besides, riders like Pooley haven't been riding long - and only have likkle leggy-weggies!

i believe the ladies course length (and mens for that matter) is governed bu UCI regulations.

I know for Worlds and Olympics Women TT is restricted to 20-30 km but can be up to 40 km outwith.

Men's are 40-50 km in worlds and Olympics (though I think that was broken at last years worlds) and up to 80 km outwith.

Gotta love the old fashioned views of the UCI. :roll:
Even wanting account for women's generally slower times (of what, 12%), that doesn't account for women only being able to race HALF the distance of men!
For the rr though, you can't expect women to dive straight into the deep end with equal stage distances when most races on the domestic calender are only ~50. With less full timers than the men's field you haven't got as many with the time to really train properly for longer stages (viscous circle).

Armitstead (almost a given), and Pooley for road and TT. Hope the jerseys are earnt by those who can show it off abroad. Archibald will podium on at least one, v. versatile rider. Trott for U23 RR due to her good sprint.
Lots of talent in the TT field. Hard to predict as it's not a typical flat course. Perhaps will benefit the punchier riders, including the many trackies on there. Rowsell and Story are mighty powerful but will probably lose time on the hilly sections though.

Le Commentateur

Hard to predict as it's not a typical flat course.

Indeed, hearing reports back this morning, for her it's an 11 mile "rolling" TT with a national hill climb TT at added at the end. Choice of gearing will be interesting.

Pross

I think Pooley will take the women's TT title quite comfortably.

moonshine

The hill is seriously steep. I have just done 2 laps if the course.

deejay

Those TT start orders are a pile of utter rubbish.
This is not a Stage Race TT.
The Top Riders should be split with lesser riders in between.

I remember some years ago (under RTTC Regulations) in the Midlands where some Idiot had Derek Cottington as last man and 1 minute in front was a Road Race Champion.
Cottington caught his minute man quickly and carried on with the other guy following the pace setting.
Cottington Broke the Competition Record for the 25 mile race and submitted the paperwork to claim the Comp Record.
They threw the claim out because the riders were seen together and it did not matter that nobody had seen the RR rider in front after he had been caught.

I was taught to place scratch men on a 5 or 0 number and never more than 30 minutes between the favourites but British Cycling have no Idea about Time trials. I set the TT field 30/40 times for Open and Association events.
The UCI are not very TT knowledgeable as they allowed the Tour de France Prolog with Armstrong as last man (defending rider) and at 1 minute in front they had Ulrich starting.
Talk about a carrot to chase was all the motivation that was needed for Ulrich to be caught in a Dam Prolog.

Rant Over.

moonshine

In most champ events the fastest 5/10 riders go off at the end of the field with larger spacings. It reduces the weather (and traffic) variable and means the top seeds ride in the same conditions.

Bottom line is if any of the top seeds are pumped for 2 min, it will be a big upset! I've no issue with the start order & I'm riding it!

ozzzyosborn206

deejay wrote:

Those TT start orders are a pile of utter rubbish.
This is not a Stage Race TT.
The Top Riders should be split with lesser riders in between.

I remember some years ago (under RTTC Regulations) in the Midlands where some Idiot had Derek Cottington as last man and 1 minute in front was a Road Race Champion.
Cottington caught his minute man quickly and carried on with the other guy following the pace setting.
Cottington Broke the Competition Record for the 25 mile race and submitted the paperwork to claim the Comp Record.
They threw the claim out because the riders were seen together and it did not matter that nobody had seen the RR rider in front after he had been caught.

I was taught to place scratch men on a 5 or 0 number and never more than 30 minutes between the favourites but British Cycling have no Idea about Time trials. I set the TT field 30/40 times for Open and Association events.
The UCI are not very TT knowledgeable as they allowed the Tour de France Prolog with Armstrong as last man (defending rider) and at 1 minute in front they had Ulrich starting.
Talk about a carrot to chase was all the motivation that was needed for Ulrich to be caught in a Dam Prolog.

Rant Over.

my club sets out TTs like you do with seeded riders at 0 or 5, but i disagree with you, if the time gaps are 2 minutes then the chances of that gap being closed if it is fastest to slowest is unlikely, whereas if you have any random inbetween then chances are they will be caught.

outcastjack

Odd Dr Emma Pooley is going off so early, I would be mildly surprised if she doesn't win and totally astounded if she finishes off the podium.