Dauphine *spoilers*

Macaloon

Daz555 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

OK it's easy to get sucked into overstating the case to make a point but...
1 - It's not a huge gap, yes it's a gap and you'd rather have it go for you than against but it's the kind of gap that could swing the other way day to day.

I think the point about the 8 secs over a fairly technical TT is how it translates into a 54km TT in the TdF which is very lumpy but not very technical. The answer will give Contador some serious cause for concern.

He knows he will need a significant lead come that final TT or Froome will nick yellow on the last day.

Great isn't it? The best racer on the planet knows he needs a margin, but not how large. The best engine knows the best racer can take a margin, but not how large.

tuneskyline

Don't forget Contador made it clear that he would not go flat out and make sure he was safe round the technical parts of the course. Also don't forget Froome went last and that is an advantage has he can react to the times ahead. I have no doubt that Froome is quicker in a TT but Contador has been much improved this year and will be better at the tour and lets hope it's a ding dong of a race and not just between those 2.

tuneskyline

DeVlaeminck wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Do you know anything about cycling?
1) I am not Froome fan but I realise 8 seconds ahead in a short TT is a significant distance ( you should know this if you have any cycling knowledge.
2) Although IMHO Froome did not ride the best tactics on stage 2 towing then finishing of Bertie at the end, he was clearly the strongest that day, dropping all the others at will and Bertie just about hanging in.
3) Obviously the crash had effect on Froome as he was struggling to hold his team mates wheels. Do you really think it was bad form to loose so much time to people he was dropping so easily before the crash, come on get real.
4) Amazing by Ryder (questioanalble past) demolishing the Sky train? lol you should be a comedian, the Sky train was in first gear trying to tow a below par and struggling Froome to limit his losses.
5) Contador too good? Oh right hang on, he did not win as he was faffing about watching the wrong rider (Froome) and was content to sit with him, he did not have the sense to go with Nibali when he attacked as he still thought Froome would pull it back and when he saw the Sky riders drop back he must have then realised he made huge mistake, great instinct that. Froome and Bertie believe all the hype, I hope someone like VDB nips in and wins the TDF.

OK it's easy to get sucked into overstating the case to make a point but...
1 - It's not a huge gap, yes it's a gap and you'd rather have it go for you than against but it's the kind of gap that could swing the other way day to day.
2 - Agree Froome did more work but for me Froome looked relatively comfortable staying with him - OK so he didn't have the strength to come round him at the finish but he never looked like being dropped either. Froome the stronger man but not massively so.
3 - Disagree that this is obvious. It's possible but it's equally possible Froome was just losing form as the week went on. Immediately after the crash he didn't seem to be too badly hurt and his form wasn't as bad the day after as on the last day.
4 - Agree that the Sky train were waiting for Froome but at the same time they were losing riders so that suggests they weren't all finding it easy even if they were waiting for Froome.
5 - With hindsight Froome should have gone earlier but it was an understandable decision given that Sky still had several domestiques and he must have expected them to at least keep Froome in contention to win the race.

Some very good points that I agree with. Good post.

Daz555

EPC06 wrote:

I would agree if the TT was early on. As it is right at the end of the Tour whoever is the dominant rider of the 2 by that time will win it...thats if the 2 of them are still involved

I disagree. If they are both riding well then the best TT rider will win - probably Froome - by a big margin - unless one of them has really imploded in terms of form.

What I'm saying here I suppose is that with both riders in form the mountains are unclear - who will win? With both riders in form the TT only goes one way - massively to Froome.

tuneskyline

Daz555 wrote:

EPC06 wrote:

I would agree if the TT was early on. As it is right at the end of the Tour whoever is the dominant rider of the 2 by that time will win it...thats if the 2 of them are still involved

I disagree. If they are both riding well then the best TT rider will win - probably Froome - by a big margin - unless one of them has really imploded in terms of form.

What I'm saying here I suppose is that with both riders in form the mountains are unclear - who will win? With both riders in form the TT only goes one way - massively to Froome.

Contador don't forget was a top TT rider. If he gets near that form and he has been showing a few signs of it this year then the gap will not be that big and Froome will have to take any chance he can to try and beat Contador . I can see Froome losing time in the mountains. Not big chunks of time but 30 sec's here and there.
If Froome has a bad day which he usually does then he can kiss the tour good bye. I do think looking at Contador and Talansky and the way they rode with the Sky train, it may not be doing Froome any favours riding that hard.
Contador looked like he could have rode all day.

oldwelshman

DeVlaeminck wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Do you know anything about cycling?
1) I am not Froome fan but I realise 8 seconds ahead in a short TT is a significant distance ( you should know this if you have any cycling knowledge.
2) Although IMHO Froome did not ride the best tactics on stage 2 towing then finishing of Bertie at the end, he was clearly the strongest that day, dropping all the others at will and Bertie just about hanging in.
3) Obviously the crash had effect on Froome as he was struggling to hold his team mates wheels. Do you really think it was bad form to loose so much time to people he was dropping so easily before the crash, come on get real.
4) Amazing by Ryder (questioanalble past) demolishing the Sky train? lol you should be a comedian, the Sky train was in first gear trying to tow a below par and struggling Froome to limit his losses.
5) Contador too good? Oh right hang on, he did not win as he was faffing about watching the wrong rider (Froome) and was content to sit with him, he did not have the sense to go with Nibali when he attacked as he still thought Froome would pull it back and when he saw the Sky riders drop back he must have then realised he made huge mistake, great instinct that. Froome and Bertie believe all the hype, I hope someone like VDB nips in and wins the TDF.

OK it's easy to get sucked into overstating the case to make a point but...
1 - It's not a huge gap, yes it's a gap and you'd rather have it go for you than against but it's the kind of gap that could swing the other way day to day.
No, it would not swing the other way day to day, this is why Tony Martin, is in a class of his own in TT, it is abut power and technique Froome is top TT guy, Bertie is not and Bertie will not turn a TT round against Froome and could loose a lot in 54km. Froome needs to ride clever in TDF and not be too flamboyant as he knows he will gain time in the TT. Sky should not aim for yellow too soon so they can save their team guys for when they are needed instead of defending against several teams.

2 - Agree Froome did more work but for me Froome looked relatively comfortable staying with him - OK so he didn't have the strength to come round him at the finish but he never looked like being dropped either. Froome the stronger man but not massively so.

Guess you mean Bertie did not come round. Froome was clearly the strongest, in his dodgy past, Bertie would have rode up to Froome then attacked lol

3 - Disagree that this is obvious. It's possible but it's equally possible Froome was just losing form as the week went on. Immediately after the crash he didn't seem to be too badly hurt and his form wasn't as bad the day after as on the last day.

It is obvious, do you really think Froome would loose that amount of form in such a short space of time? Only illness and injury will do that.

4 - Agree that the Sky train were waiting for Froome but at the same time they were losing riders so that suggests they weren't all finding it easy even if they were waiting for Froome.
5 - With hindsight Froome should have gone earlier but it was an understandable decision given that Sky still had several domestiques and he must have expected them to at least keep Froome in contention to win the race

Guess you mean Bertie should have gone earlier as Froome was fooked. It is not with hindsight, even the sky commentators were surprised Bertie stayed with Froome, even more so when Nibs attacked. If Bertie was so good how come he blew on last climb and lost time to Keldermann ?
.

Macaloon

Daz555 wrote:

What I'm saying here I suppose is that with both riders in form the mountains are unclear - who will win? With both riders in form the TT only goes one way - massively to Froome.

I think if Froome's week 3 form last year was as relatively strong as the first, that would be true. But he faded quite a bit relative to Quintana and J-Rod, albeit with the race in the bag by then. This appears to be his only weakness given the likely TT superiority.

He's appeared quite frail this year. Riding at his extremes may not be sustainable.

tuneskyline

"If Bertie was so good how come he blew on last climb and lost time to Keldermann ?"
Seriously oldwelshman you are a wise sage

tuneskyline

Macaloon wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

What I'm saying here I suppose is that with both riders in form the mountains are unclear - who will win? With both riders in form the TT only goes one way - massively to Froome.

I think if Froome's week 3 form last year was as relatively strong as the first, that would be true. But he faded quite a bit relative to Quintana and J-Rod, albeit with the race in the bag by then. This appears to be his only weakness given the likely TT superiority.

He's appeared quite frail this year. Riding at his extremes may not be sustainable.

My thoughts exactly. I think the TT will be irrelevant for Froome. He will be 2 or 3 minutes down by then.
This is the first Tour where he will have real competition and not just from Contador. I can see a few teams trying their luck with aggressive attacks and getting into early breaks. I quite like Froome but I think as he found out the other day one good ride won't win the race and he will be riding in fear of 3rd week Contador attacks.

Turfle

So is it just troll and counter-troll until after the Tour then?

ddraver

I think he was watching different race to the one the rest of us were...

Pross

Turfle wrote:

So is it just troll and counter-troll until after the Tour then?

My screen is becoming increasingly full of 'This post was made by ******* who is on your ignore list'. I'm not sure what's worse on here, off season or the period between the Giro starting and Tour ending.

tuneskyline

ddraver wrote:

I think he was watching different race to the one the rest of us were...

How many minutes was Froome down on Talansky at the finish? Do you know?

What race was you watching? If Froome his down half that time at the tour the TT will be irrelevant will it not?


You put Froome's loss down to the crash, I don't and a few other posters on this site have said much the same.

The Sky train would never have blitzed up to Finhaut-Emosson if he was out of shape.

RichN95.

tuneskyline wrote:

The Sky train would never have blitzed up to Finhaut-Emosson if he was out of shape.

Did they blitz it? With 5km to go Froome still had three teammates in front of him. Seems like they were nursing him a little to me.

adr82

tuneskyline wrote:

You put Froome's loss down to the crash, I don't and a few other posters on this site have said much the same.

Oh. I see. Well, that's that whole discussion well and truly put to bed then. Obviously you must be correct, because you say so! How silly we all were for thinking that the crash didn't play the slightest part in Froome's sudden and total loss of form. I'm so glad you're here to keep us right!

tuneskyline

adr82 wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

You put Froome's loss down to the crash, I don't and a few other posters on this site have said much the same.

Oh. I see. Well, that's that whole discussion well and truly put to bed then. Obviously you must be correct, because you say so! How silly we all were for thinking that the crash didn't play the slightest part in Froome's sudden and total loss of form. I'm so glad you're here to keep us right!

That is my view obviously you think different, I don't think Froome lost much form going up to Finhaut-Emosson.
Sky dropped almost everyone when Contador attacked except Nibs ,Talansky. Ryder had dropped back from the break.
Sky must have been riding pretty hard to drop just about everyone agree? Or was the rest of the peloton having a bad day as well? If Froome had a "total loss of form" then how come after such a tough climb he attacked at 1km to go and dropped nibs and chased after Bertie? That in my view is not a "total loss of form" All those riders the Sky train dropped would be happy to have such a "total loss of form".
There really is no need to be so childish with your reply. We all have a different opinion that is all it is.
Cheers Tune.

adr82

tuneskyline wrote:

adr82 wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

You put Froome's loss down to the crash, I don't and a few other posters on this site have said much the same.

Oh. I see. Well, that's that whole discussion well and truly put to bed then. Obviously you must be correct, because you say so! How silly we all were for thinking that the crash didn't play the slightest part in Froome's sudden and total loss of form. I'm so glad you're here to keep us right!

That is my view obviously you think different, I don't think Froome lost much form going up to Finhaut-Emosson.
Sky dropped almost everyone when Contador attacked except Nibs ,Talansky. Ryder had dropped back from the break.
Sky must have been riding pretty hard to drop just about everyone agree? Or was the rest of the peloton having a bad day as well? If Froome had a "total loss of form" then how come after such a tough climb he attacked at 1km to go and dropped nibs and chased after Bertie? That in my view is not a "total loss of form" All those riders the Sky train dropped would be happy to have such a "total loss of form".
There really is no need to be so childish with your reply. We all have a different opinion that is all it is.
Cheers Tune.

I'm sorry if you felt I was being childish. I was totally sincere! I truly value your input on this forum and deeply enjoy reading your posts.

tuneskyline

That's all good then,,,
cheers

thomthom

Fuglsang: What's going on in your head, Nibali?

Vincenzo Nibali is an accomplished rider, but he is not able to make an independent decision, reveals Jakob Fuglsang in an interview with Euroman.

The Dane, who last week demonstrated good form and finished in 10th place in the Criterium du Dauphiné, describes his captain Vincenzo Nibali as being quite dependent on others, a rider who is completely dependent on the advice he constantly gets told by his masseuse.

- If he did not have Pallini by him all the time, it would all go very wrong, says Fuglsang, elaborating:

- Asked if he should have dessert, then Pallini says: 'No, no to him.' Otherwise he would have said: 'Yes.' 'I'm a little too chubby,' he says in the morning but in the evening he will head down and eat pizza. What's going on in your head? Is there no one at home up there, ask Fuglsang in the interview, in which he also calls the 29-year-old Italian 'a great rider' and 'a nice guy'.

Also noting in the interview that the former Tour winner Andy Schleck, which the Dane was previously very close to when they both rode for Bjarne Riis and since the Leopard-Trek, have completely lost hunger for the sport:

- He does not want more of this and he'll never come back, I think.

http://www.bt.dk/cykling/fuglsang-hvad- ... dig-nibali

frenchfighter

Interesting comments albeit a little odd regarding Nibali.

thomthom

He's been riding with his head under his arm all season so it does make a bit of sense.

Macaloon

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting comments albeit a little odd regarding Nibali.

Soap Opera is an incredibly competitive field. CoronationSide were out on their own for a bit. Astana playing catch-up.

frenchfighter

Great photo essay:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/06/ ... ine_332320

Macaloon

There is also a possibility that Team Sky told Froome to back off in order to lull his rivals into a false sense of hope at the Tour de France, so that Froome can come out and wipe the floor with them on the first crucial mountain stage. It's not unknown for teams to be that sneaky and though you might think it's the Dauphine and it's an important race, it's no where near as important as the Tour de France.

Robert Millar

Macaloon

Wrong thread

DeadCalm

DeadCalm wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Porte is looking particularly pants at the moment for someone who is presumably expected to be the last man with Froome. His inability to stick with a struggling Froome having spent the rest of the day sat in the wheels whilst Peraud and Hesjedal drove the break must be a big concern.

Does he? When was he unable to stick with a struggling Froome? On stage 7 he was with Froome until the flamme rouge, on stage 8 he towed Froome for 20k up two cat 1s frequently dropping him.

Sometimes I swear people watch a different race to me.

Stage 7 Froome waited behind a pedestrian Porte for way too long whilst Contador created a gap.

Stage 8, Porte and Lopez were riding at a pace significantly slower than a bunch of second tier riders and still losing time and it was Lopez and not Porte who was last man standing with Froome. I don't recollect whether it was Porte doing all the work on the climbs or whether he was sharing the work with Lopez but either way, one would have expected a Porte of last year, let alone two years ago, to be able to go at that pace and get home with a clearly troubled Froome. Indeed, if he were in the form of previous years there would have been no question that Lopez would have been the man used up first with Porte given the responsibility of seeing him to the line.

OK so because Porte couldn't close down a stampeding Contador going all out on the attack he is weak? That's not a criticism of Porte's form its a criticism of Froome's inability to respond to Contador's attack. And he clearly wasn't that pedestrian was he otherwise other's from that select little group like Nibali would have gone on the attack.

And yes it was Porte at the front of affairs yesterday followed by Lopez and then Porte. They kept having to wait for Froome. Maybe Porte and Lopez could have gone faster but Froome couldn't. They kept having to drop the pace for him. If his job is to stick with Froome and make sure he doesn't lose more time then you don't just ride off especially as Sky had Nieve up the road anyway.

Except he didn't stay with Froome. He popped. Maybe pants is over egging it a little but he is clearly nowhere near the form of this time last year when he was being touted as a possible podium for the tour and a grand tour winner in his own right.

Don't post when drunk.