Dauphine *spoilers*

blazing_saddles

tuneskyline wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

With the benefit of hindsight, probably Contador's biggest 'mistake' was to take the lead yesterday. His team were clearly too weak to contain the early break, while had it still been Sky doing it he probably wouldn't have had so much to catch up.

I thought that too. And I suspect if Froome has been 100% today they would've managed to work him over.

The Sky train road hard yesterday and all they have to show for it is a spent team leader. Froome was Fu%%ed today, nothing to do with his injury. In last years tour he had a bad day or 2 but he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time. Talansky and Contador were to good on merit. Froome was beaten by better riders not a crash. Awesome.

Nice fairytale.

Le Commentateur

Perfect surpirse ending after everyone got obsessed by the Frome v Contador aspect.

hammerite

tuneskyline wrote:

no TT time gap.

You are aware that the penultimate stage is a 54k time trial? Based on recent TT performances Contador could need at least a 45 second time gap to stay clear of Froome. Of course he might have 5 mins by the TT, or he might be down on Froome. But saying there won't be a TT time gap is clearly wrong - it's just the TT comes later in the race.

milton50

Is there anyone who seriously thinks that after winning Romandie (and beating Tony Martin in the TT), crushing everyone in the Dauphine prologue, and beating Contador in the first summit finish, that the crash Froome subsequently suffered has absolutely nothing to do with him getting beaten by the likes of Kelderman, Talansky etc a couple of days later?

All we know from this Dauphine is that it was mighty close between Contador and Froome before the crash and not very close at all after the crash. Not rocket science to see the connection.

inseine

Le Commentateur wrote:

Perfect surpirse ending after everyone got obsessed by the Frome v Contador aspect.

Especially Contador! He normally has a good head for racing but I guess it was just so disorganized today and he got caught watching Froome.

iainf72

Milton50 wrote:

All we know from this Dauphine is that it was mighty close between Contador and Froome before the crash and not very close at all after the crash. Not rocket science to see the connection.

Indeed. And crashing and the effects of it are part of racing. It doesn't make Bert's 2nd overall of any less value because Froome was carrying an injury.

inseine

iainf72 wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

All we know from this Dauphine is that it was mighty close between Contador and Froome before the crash and not very close at all after the crash. Not rocket science to see the connection.

Indeed. And crashing and the effects of it are part of racing. It doesn't make Bert's 2nd overall of any less value because Froome was carrying an injury.

Absolutely, but the main discussion is around how this is a pointer to the TdF. It puts Froomes performance into perspective for the future battle.

tuneskyline

Blazing Saddles wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

With the benefit of hindsight, probably Contador's biggest 'mistake' was to take the lead yesterday. His team were clearly too weak to contain the early break, while had it still been Sky doing it he probably wouldn't have had so much to catch up.

I thought that too. And I suspect if Froome has been 100% today they would've managed to work him over.

The Sky train road hard yesterday and all they have to show for it is a spent team leader. Froome was Fu%%ed today, nothing to do with his injury. In last years tour he had a bad day or 2 but he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time. Talansky and Contador were to good on merit. Froome was beaten by better riders not a crash. Awesome.

Nice fairytale.

Yeah an injured elbow did not stop him yesterday did it? Who was it who attacked with a 1 KM to go ? Oh yes it was Froome. Trouble was Contador had already gone down the road and Froome could not pull him back.
Contador is to good right now, Simple. That's no fairy tale that's what happened.

inseine

tuneskyline wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

With the benefit of hindsight, probably Contador's biggest 'mistake' was to take the lead yesterday. His team were clearly too weak to contain the early break, while had it still been Sky doing it he probably wouldn't have had so much to catch up.

I thought that too. And I suspect if Froome has been 100% today they would've managed to work him over.

The Sky train road hard yesterday and all they have to show for it is a spent team leader. Froome was Fu%%ed today, nothing to do with his injury. In last years tour he had a bad day or 2 but he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time. Talansky and Contador were to good on merit. Froome was beaten by better riders not a crash. Awesome.

Nice fairytale.

I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but you keep writing 'to good' :roll: I find it hard to take you seriously

Yeah an injured elbow did not stop him yesterday did it? Who was it who attacked with a 1 KM to go ? Oh yes it was Froome. Trouble was Contador had already gone down the road and Froome could not pull him back.
Contador is to good right now, Simple. That's no fairy tale that's what happened.

iainf72

inseine wrote:

Absolutely, but the main discussion is around how this is a pointer to the TdF. It puts Froomes performance into perspective for the future battle.

So my take-aways would be

- Froome's team are more or less ready
- Froome is ready (based on everything up until Friday)
- Contador is back at GT winning level
- Contador is nervous about his ability to take on Froome in uphill finishes

Froome vs Contador mental battle I score 2 - 1. Mostly because of the TT and stage 2. Contador gets a point for yesterday, but it was a draw today.

blazing_saddles

tuneskyline wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

With the benefit of hindsight, probably Contador's biggest 'mistake' was to take the lead yesterday. His team were clearly too weak to contain the early break, while had it still been Sky doing it he probably wouldn't have had so much to catch up.

I thought that too. And I suspect if Froome has been 100% today they would've managed to work him over.

The Sky train road hard yesterday and all they have to show for it is a spent team leader. Froome was Fu%%ed today, nothing to do with his injury. In last years tour he had a bad day or 2 but he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time. Talansky and Contador were to good on merit. Froome was beaten by better riders not a crash. Awesome.

Nice fairytale.

Yeah an injured elbow did not stop him yesterday did it? Who was it who attacked with a 1 KM to go ? Oh yes it was Froome. Trouble was Contador had already gone down the road and Froome could not pull him back.
Contador is to good right now, Simple. That's no fairy tale that's what happened.

That would be the day after the crash and the day he lost the jersey?
That would be the attack that ended with him being over taken by Hesjedal?
Yes, I can see where you are going with that, doc.

Note Iain wise words just above and leave it at that.

Turfle

tuneskyline wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

With the benefit of hindsight, probably Contador's biggest 'mistake' was to take the lead yesterday. His team were clearly too weak to contain the early break, while had it still been Sky doing it he probably wouldn't have had so much to catch up.

I thought that too. And I suspect if Froome has been 100% today they would've managed to work him over.

The Sky train road hard yesterday and all they have to show for it is a spent team leader. Froome was Fu%%ed today, nothing to do with his injury. In last years tour he had a bad day or 2 but he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time. Talansky and Contador were to good on merit. Froome was beaten by better riders not a crash. Awesome.

Nice fairytale.

Yeah an injured elbow did not stop him yesterday did it? Who was it who attacked with a 1 KM to go ? Oh yes it was Froome. Trouble was Contador had already gone down the road and Froome could not pull him back.
Contador is to good right now, Simple. That's no fairy tale that's what happened.

And who was it got overhauled by Talansky, and Hesjedal (who had been in the break all day) yesterday? Even you don't believe what you're saying.

inseine

iainf72 wrote:

inseine wrote:

Absolutely, but the main discussion is around how this is a pointer to the TdF. It puts Froomes performance into perspective for the future battle.

So my take-aways would be

- Froome's team are more or less ready
- Froome is ready (based on everything up until Friday)
- Contador is back at GT winning level
- Contador is nervous about his ability to take on Froome in uphill finishes

Froome vs Contador mental battle I score 2 - 1. Mostly because of the TT and stage 2. Contador gets a point for yesterday, but it was a draw today.

I agree with that, assuming Froome was held back by his crash, which seems fair. Maybe he is poor at dealing with injuries (due to his skinniness?) though I don't recall seeing him a have a 'big' one recently.
It would be great if some more players came out of the woodwork in July, like today.

tuneskyline

hammerite wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

no TT time gap.

You are aware that the penultimate stage is a 54k time trial? Based on recent TT performances Contador could need at least a 45 second time gap to stay clear of Froome. Of course he might have 5 mins by the TT, or he might be down on Froome. But saying there won't be a TT time gap is clearly wrong - it's just the TT comes later in the race.

"he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time" i.e. this race. You have taken my words out of context. I am aware of the TT I doubt by then Froome will be within 2 minutes of Contador but you never know with the tour. Wind and cobbles can always throw a spanner in the works.
Very exciting stuff.

tuneskyline

Turfle wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

tuneskyline wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

With the benefit of hindsight, probably Contador's biggest 'mistake' was to take the lead yesterday. His team were clearly too weak to contain the early break, while had it still been Sky doing it he probably wouldn't have had so much to catch up.

I thought that too. And I suspect if Froome has been 100% today they would've managed to work him over.

The Sky train road hard yesterday and all they have to show for it is a spent team leader. Froome was Fu%%ed today, nothing to do with his injury. In last years tour he had a bad day or 2 but he has no TT time gap or weak opposition to save him this time. Talansky and Contador were to good on merit. Froome was beaten by better riders not a crash. Awesome.

Nice fairytale.

Yeah an injured elbow did not stop him yesterday did it? Who was it who attacked with a 1 KM to go ? Oh yes it was Froome. Trouble was Contador had already gone down the road and Froome could not pull him back.
Contador is to good right now, Simple. That's no fairy tale that's what happened.

And who was it got overhauled by Talansky, and Hesjedal (who had been in the break all day) yesterday? Even you don't believe what you're saying.

And who just won this race? and who helped him? Jesus. Froome got beat. It's simple. He had a couple of bad stages in the tour last year remember? he lost some time but it did not matter. He had no TT advantage this time. so a bad day was always going to cost him and Contador coming into form was always going to defeat him and that proved to be the case. Froome is a great rider but he cannot adapt to Contador's or anyones attacks outside of the Sky plan. Talansky was super today and super yesterday and so was Ryder and Garmin were very smart. If you look at my early post's you will see how highly I rate Ryder. He's very aggressive and having him ride for Talansky was very smart. Did you see Talanksy ride with the Sky train yesterday, what does that tell you? I think you are seriously underestimating his victory and to be honest it seems like a lot of the Sky fans are not very gracious losers. Froome got beat he has been beaten before he will get beat again.

ddraver

You re aware that Talansky won arent you?

adr82

tuneskyline wrote:

Froome is a great rider but he cannot adapt to Contador's or anyones attacks outside of the Sky plan.

So you've never watched Froome race then? OK.

above_the_cows

tuneskyline wrote:

Froome is a great rider but he cannot adapt to Contador's or anyones attacks outside of the Sky plan.

Really? What is Sky's plan? Do you actually watch any cycling, like the 2013 TdF?

tuneskyline wrote:

Froome got beat. It's simple.

Well yes its simple if all you're trying to analyse and understand is that Froome 'got beat'. What some people are trying to understand is how he went from such dominating form at the beginning of the week to seemingly loosing that form and in such a situation just saying he 'got beat' doesn't really help you explain or understand what happened.

tuneskyline wrote:

I think you are seriously underestimating his victory and to be honest it seems like a lot of the Sky fans are not very gracious losers.

As to this, I don't know what thread you've been reading but everyone seemed very happy with Talansky's performance and the overall quality/entertainment value of the race as a whole.

And someone else used to always get to and too mixed up. Strange...

Macaloon

tuneskyline wrote:

And who just won this race? and who helped him? Jesus. Froome got beat. It's simple. He had a couple of bad stages in the tour last year remember? he lost some time but it did not matter. He had no TT advantage this time. so a bad day was always going to cost him and Contador coming into form was always going to defeat him and that proved to be the case. Froome is a great rider but he cannot adapt to Contador's or anyones attacks outside of the Sky plan. Talansky was super today and super yesterday and so was Ryder and Garmin were very smart. If you look at my early post's you will see how highly I rate Ryder. He's very aggressive and having him ride for Talansky was very smart. Did you see Talanksy ride with the Sky train yesterday, what does that tell you? I think you are seriously underestimating his victory and to be honest it seems like a lot of the Sky fans are not very gracious losers. Froome got beat he has been beaten before he will get beat again.

Accusing Froome of formulaic riding is absurd. And don't be a big wean. All that's being suggested is that Froome's crash had enough of an impact for Kelderman (after a huge Giro) and Hejsdal to beat hnim as well as Contador. Winning the Tour seems to make ridiculous demands on riders: Evans, Wiggins, and now perhaps Froome showing serious wear and tear.

I also think there's a fair chance that Froome suffered a bit for the stage 2 efforts. They're not supposed to be at 100% yet. It was great to see Contador in good enough shape to take full advantage. It's amazing that Garmin pulled that move off to deny him victory.

TMR

Above The Cows wrote:

And someone else used to always get to and too mixed up. Strange...

Who? I love some good alt account scandal...

Pross

I can't believe people are still getting duped into responding to Rayjay no matter what name he chooses to use.

TMR

Pross wrote:

I can't believe people are still getting duped into responding to Rayjay no matter what name he chooses to use.

Aah...

Coach H

Pross wrote:

I can't believe people are still getting duped into responding to Rayjay no matter what name he chooses to use.

+1 It really is quite blatant Mods. Although Rayjay does seem a bit better behaved in this new alter ego.
Also The_Boy seems to have disappeared since I accused him of being Rayjay

DeVlaeminck

The truth is we don't know why Froome cracked. It might be the crash or it might not.

Riders do go from having a dominant day to a poor one just as some riders have a bad day and then come out and ride strongly the next. Personally I think it's unlikely that collapse is down to the crash but it's certainly possible.

As for Froome being formulaic - maybe not but Sky certainly are. That is not to say formulaic is a weakness, Lance Armstrong "won" enough TdF being formulaic before he was found out. A strong team can pretty much guarantee the strongest rider wins however creative the opposition are.

The_Boy

Coach H wrote:

Pross wrote:

I can't believe people are still getting duped into responding to Rayjay no matter what name he chooses to use.

+1 It really is quite blatant Mods. Although Rayjay does seem a bit better behaved in this new alter ego.
Also The_Boy seems to have disappeared since I accused him of being Rayjay

You accused me of being Rayjay the very day I signed up to the forum. A) you were wrong; b) other posters also suggested you to be wrong. Not only did I not disappear, I posted pretty regularly for some time before serving a short ban over an unrelated issue.

I haven't been online much anywhere recently due to being abroad helping care for my father who suffered a pretty catastrophic stroke. I'll be sure to clear any future absences from the forum with you beforehand.

The_Boy

Interesting that there isn't much love for Bardet. I get it's a predominantly Anglophone forum so Yates will get the lion's share of the attention, but it was another cracking ride from him today. Just a shame he had such a bad start to the week, but a very promising young rider.

Turfle

Every team is formulaic. Every team who think they have a contender in the mountains wants a mountain train. We've seen it - during the Sky train era - from Saxo, Astana, Movistar, Liquigas/Cannondale, Europcar, Belkin, and on and on.

From Sky in the last 18 months we've seen Wiggo as final man churn out as high a pace as possible, we've seen Froome attack off a strong pace, we've seen Uran, Froome, Porte get sent up the road to win major MTF while Froome/Porte/Wiggins are marked, and today we saw them put 3 men in a dangerous break then have Froome attack on the flat.

Turfle

The_Boy wrote:

Interesting that there isn't much love for Bardet. I get it's a predominantly Anglophone forum so Yates will get the lion's share of the attention, but it was another cracking ride from him today. Just a shame he had such a bad start to the week, but a very promising young rider.

This is Bardet's 3rd year as a pro. He's receiver a good amount of plaudits from the forumers in that time.

The_Boy

Turfle wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Interesting that there isn't much love for Bardet. I get it's a predominantly Anglophone forum so Yates will get the lion's share of the attention, but it was another cracking ride from him today. Just a shame he had such a bad start to the week, but a very promising young rider.

This is Bardet's 3rd year as a pro. He's receiver a good amount of plaudits from the forumers in that time.

No doubt, but I was just meaning in the context of today's stage (and this thread).

I was willing Yates and Bardet on at the end today - sprint finishes are a lot less nerve-wracking when you don't mind who wins

Turfle

Probably just such a hectic finish that good rides got lost in the excitement. I must admit I didn't even notice Yates came 3rd today until just now! Tunnel vision on Talansky and Bert.

Bardet is a proper talent though. Can see him winning big one-dayers in the very near future.