Giro 2014 - Stage 16: Val Martello *Spoilers*

knedlicky

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Great stage, bravo to the Giro organisers, if riders feel cold then try wearing some more clothes, there were riders out there in shorts and track mitts ffs, … This is a race going over the Stelvio in May, they've known that for months, if they weren't prepared don't blame anyone but themselves … this was entirely predictable and a test of bike handling, preparation and mental fortitude - all parts of cycling.

Danilo Hondo said some riders misjudged how cold the Gavia descent would be and only put on, if anything, thin rain jackets, his team mate Arredondo being one. Apparently Evans and 10-20% of riders similarly misjudged; early on during the descent Evans (and some others) had no jacket on and just bare arms!
Arrendondo became so cold he stopped at a hairpin and waited until the team car appeared so he could put on a warmer jacket and be given some hot tea. It seems Evans did the same. (tea and Anzac biscuits?)

Hondo also said that the Gavia descent was the worst part of the day, not just as it was sleeting and very cold but also because his glasses developed a thin sheet of ice on them, so that visibility was gone, and he believed other riders had the same problem.

knedlicky

Le Commentateur wrote:

4+ hours of highlights to watch at the office in the morning...
http://www.rai.tv/dl/RaiTV/programmi/me ... 58d&page=0

Are you the boss?

knedlicky

Richmond Racer said she would be at the top of the Stelvio.

ocdupalais

Has anyone mentioned noticing how much (and at certain crucial points on the final climb - i.e. the steeper bits) Quintana looked at his power meter?
Previously in GTs he's been coping (admirably) with the bigger boys in front of him: this time he had only destiny between himself and the finish (except for the bit where Ryder went to the front)…

Watch the footage again - he does lots of referring to something "stem mounted"…

How's that going to work if Colombian riders become anything other than small, brown and erratic? Some of us have only just got over the whole Mauricio Soler thing (Colombian rider: TALL, brown and erratic)… and now they're all nicely in the SBE box again surely we can't have any of 'em riding to numbers…?

ocdupalais

And another thing: had Uran stayed at Sky (if it wasn't for that pesky Porte) and been leader, he'd have had Cataldo, Deignan, EBH, Swift & Henao riding for him - which when you look at how they've ridden, would have been considerably better than the support he's got at OPQS… and better again had Kennaugh ridden (like he did at last year's Tour)…
That De Gendt came in 26 min down today...
But enough smug what-ifs: that has no place on these pages...

Richmond Racer

knedlicky wrote:

Richmond Racer said she would be at the top of the Stelvio.

As always, awe-inspiring how many fans put up with chuffing awful weather to stand on the roadside and cheer on the riders

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

OnYourRight wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Quintana rode well but having Ryder finish a handful of seconds down doesn't make me think he's in amazing form.

This guy – I can’t vouch for his accuracy – calculated Quintana’s winning climb at 5.34 W/kg, i.e. relatively unimpressive on paper. However, his time on this very tough day was much better than anyone else’s except Hesjedal’s.

That guy is a raving lunatic.

Succinct and massively to the point, Iain

frenchfighter

Check out Kiser's leg warmers!!

BMC's photos from yesterday:

frenchfighter

“In other sports, they just think about material. They say, ‘First of all, we’re not going to risk the lives of our guys. And the second, the material costs a shitload of money.’ In our sport, nobody cares. They don’t care if the rider is sick the next day. It doesn’t matter, [if he] destroys 15 bikes on the way down there. It’s just, ‘We’re going,’” said a weary Bernhard Eisel. “For me it’s just sick when people are out there and want to see that. That’s sick. This is sick. [None] of us is scared to fight, to give everything. But when it’s just about the most stupid and steepest climb, and people seeing us riding in the snow, not even knowing the faces. Just people shaking, stopping on the side of the road to warm up their hands,” Eisel said. “It was probably cool 20 years ago. It’s just that everybody wants to live in the present, like having the newest TV, but then still talk about the old times, how cool [those riders] were. Thanks for that. Now they can see us standing on the side of the road warming up in HD.”. “If something happens, is somebody going to get sued? No. You never sue an organization. It’s like they do what they want. And I understand. They want to bring the race through. But bring it to the table, and don’t make decisions like that all the time … It’s not like you can’t [hold] a press conference and say, ‘Hey, guys, we decide tomorrow,’” Eisel said. “I’m not actually even complaining. I went through it. But we better count all the riders, because nobody knows if somebody got lost out there.”

Oh well Eisel, don't ride the Giro again. Go and soft tap round another race for Sky in your comfortable bus and your face creams on hand. This is a business and fans would not watch this sport if it was just a pan flat rubbish through nowhere, then sponsors wouldnt sponsor and you would not be a pro cyclist.

frenchfighter

Today's stage was...crazy... Even in good weather it would have been nuts, but in bad weather, it was close to unbelievable. I couldn't handle the conditions as well as some of my competitors so it was not an enjoyable day for me. Not being able to see on the first descent. Stopping for a jacket on the second descent under the impression that we would have a neutralised descent... Crossing the line some time down only to be pushed up the hill out of the way -literally- into the stationary (blocked) media. I didn't hurt anyone did I? I couldn't stop, I couldn't go...which is an appropriate summary of my day... Hopefully some normality tomorrow. We keep giving our best regardless.

-Evans

Pross

Joelsim wrote:

Why on earth were some wearing shorts today? Utter madness.

It can be better as the water clears quickly off the legs, especially if they have balm or oil on their legs. Nothing worse than having cold, soggy clothing against your skin. It's riding without full fingered gloves that I don't understand.

frenchfighter

@daniellloyd1 9h
Race radio which I listened to today was lady translating into Eng/Frnch. 99% certain neutralisation was said, is there a recording of this?

@mickrogers 13h
Today's communication mess up is yet another demonstration why road cycling needs clear rules regarding extreme weather conditions.

fleshtuxedo

"they just think about material"

"and second, the material costs a shitload of money"

Eisel fuming about Astana's leg warmers

mechanism

Nibali got it right last year by ditching Astana leg warmers for black ones.

Macaloon

OCDuPalais wrote:

And another thing: had Uran stayed at Sky (if it wasn't for that pesky Porte) and been leader, he'd have had Cataldo, Deignan, EBH, Swift & Henao riding for him - which when you look at how they've ridden, would have been considerably better than the support he's got at OPQS… and better again had Kennaugh ridden (like he did at last year's Tour)…
That De Gendt came in 26 min down today...
But enough smug what-ifs: that has no place on these pages...

What are you basing that on? Neo-Henao rode out of his skin with the GC group yesterday, but otherwise Sky have been invisible: top rider Henao 31st before yesterday's start.

Porte dodging Quintana was as smart as Quintana dodging Froomtador is a disaster (since we may never get to see them competing at near peak). A team that came to the Giro last year to compete for the win, preferred ToC and 'solid blocks' of training this year. I think Uran made a good call.

frenchfighter

Uran:

"On the Stelvio I heard from Davide Bramati That the downhill will be controlled by motos with a red flag for the safety of the riders, and That we could have maintained our position on the descent without attacking, "Uran said. "He told me to put on my rain jacket and pay attention in any case. At 300 or 400 yards I had my jacket from one of our masseurs.

"I managed to wear my jacket before the top so at that point I did not stop at the top like a few of my colleagues did. Then I started descending, but I did not see any motorbike. During the descent riders came around me. Majka and I saw other guys but I did not realize Quintana was not there .

"I only did a few kilometers when Bramati told me the gap was already at one minute. So, we then organized our chase. That's how it went. I think in normal Circumstances the story of the race probably could have been different.

"Now I am 1'41 "down from Quintana in the overall classification. But the Giro is not finished yet. We will keep going, we will try to take back the Maglia Rosa. We are not done fighting for pink. "

frenchfighter

Macaloon wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

And another thing: had Uran stayed at Sky (if it wasn't for that pesky Porte) and been leader, he'd have had Cataldo, Deignan, EBH, Swift & Henao riding for him - which when you look at how they've ridden, would have been considerably better than the support he's got at OPQS… and better again had Kennaugh ridden (like he did at last year's Tour)…
That De Gendt came in 26 min down today...
But enough smug what-ifs: that has no place on these pages...

What are you basing that on? Neo-Henao rode out of his skin with the GC group yesterday, but otherwise Sky have been invisible: top rider Henao 31st before yesterday's start.

Porte dodging Quintana was as smart as Quintana dodging Froomtador is a disaster (since we may never get to see them competing at near peak). A team that came to the Giro last year to compete for the win, preferred ToC and 'solid blocks' of training this year. I think Uran made a good call.

Yeah he needs to watch more racing. Sky in stage races have been appalling in terms of support. Uran is being paid more, happier, and the boss...why would he want to go back to Sky...
Had he been riding for Sky this year he would have played second fiddle to Porte this Giro, sacrificing his chances yet again for a rider from the Commonwealth.

Presumably he also doesnt know that coming into the stage yesterday, OPQS for second on the team table for the Giro, let alone where they are relative to their teams this year in the rankings.

frenchfighter

“We clearly heard over the race radio that the race jury asked us to transmit to our riders that the red flag would be raised for the riders on the descent. The red flag is indecisive and means that it’s not allowed to attack from the group, explains Sport Director Lars Michaelsen after the stage that saw the GC being turned upside down.

“We told our riders that they were asked by RCS to take it slow on the descent from Stelvio. So we stopped on the top to make sure that they had the proper clothing for a slow and cold descent. But Movistar and Quintana attacked and Hesjedal and Rolland followed”, continues Lars Michaelsen and emphasizes that the message about the neutralization went out to 22 teams and 44 sport directors.

“I mean, if you suddenly have 2 minutes just after the descent, there is probably something that isn’t right. And I think that there are some teams that probably know that what they did on the stage was questionable," says the Directeur Sportif, who however believes that the race organizers has the overall responsibility.

“Today was unacceptable. I’ve always been a strong advocate for the fact that crashes, weather and punctures are a part of cycling. But when an organizer steps in to control the race as a final option they need to have the finesse and skills to do it properly. Their intentions were good but the execution was horrible. They sent an apology on their official media platform but won’t take the full responsibility either”.

“Rafal did an excellent job today – the whole team did. Roche and Petrov fought their way back after Stelvio and immediately went to the front of the group to pull. Rogers was so strong and delivered Rafal in the best possible position. Rafa also launched a couple of attacks that split the group. But it’s difficult to sense how the legs are, when they’re cold after a confusing stage with many shifts in pace. Quintana was the big favorite for the stage win today, but he wouldn't have been in pink if it wasn't for what happened on Stelvio”, explains Lars Michaelsen.

“Rafa is not at his best in cold conditions but he’s in a strong shape right now. He shows continuously that he has the will to attack and he’s still very close to the podium, which is his and our goal. Our team right now is indeed among the strongest. At the bottom of Stelvio 90 riders were dropped from the peloton – none of them were our riders. As a sport director, a team performance like that makes me proud”, concludes Lars Michaelsen.

--

Once again, big man Rogers making the difference. Had he been in another team he would have got fired after the clen positive.

Macaloon

frenchfighter wrote:

Uran:

The guy with most to whine about, not whining. Eisel putting the AUS in Australia whining more than Cadel :shock:
(As if anyone would have noticed Eisel climbing off if it was too tough. Maybe he'd prefer a tilt at the Rio Olympics?)

iainf72

It seems the moto rider is confirming Quintana passed him when his red flag was up

frenchfighter

knedlicky wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

A huge margin they (Quintana & co) gained on the descent, which isnt normal and suggests that Uran got caught out at the top or something. Also the shots of him showed him descending hyper defensively...but then same goes for most of the other riders so cant be that bad.

I didn’t think the achieved margin by Quintana on the descent was that huge, as you write – after all it was 25 km long and easily 4 secs per km or more can be gained.

Added to which, when a rider is in the middle of a larger group, like Uran was, he usually ends up descending at the group pace, which typically is slower than what a rider might do when alone (if courageous), or when in a small group (if 1-2 in the group descend well), so Quintana’s case.

Cataldo was an example of the courageous alone, and the Dupont mini-group a better example of the speedy small group than the Quintana mini-group. Both Cataldo and the Dupont group gained about 7 secs per km on Uran on the descent, the Quintana group less than 5 secs per km.

The gap was not normal as a few DS/riders have mentioned. It was opened at the top in any case, not at the very bottom. There is no way Quintana goes that much faster than Uran on a descent. Agreed on descending solo compared to in a group although Uran had a lot of space around him. Uran however was going extremely gingerly...but maybe that was because he thought it was neutralised rather than because he was scared of crashing.

frenchfighter

“Robert was good in the first downhill, and he went away with 11-12 riders; he never pulled, he just stayed there since it was too far from the end still," sports director Adriano Baffi said. "Then at the top of the Stelvio there was a misunderstanding - most of the teams understood that the moto with the red flag was a safety car to not pass because of the snow. This did not happen, but what can you do? It’s like that.

"[Race leader Rigoberto] Uran lost the most because of this announcement from radio tour. For us, I am a little disappointed because Robert showed he was good in the first descent so I think he could have followed this attack of Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal.”

"The plan going into today was to score some mountain points with Julian and save Robert’s GC place. Julian suffered a lot today, but he did get second in the Gavia’s GPM. His race [today] was finished after this - he had to stop, as did a lot of riders, because of the cold to put on more clothes. After this he was in survival mode to the finish.”

frenchfighter

Pozzo doesnt seem to know about neutralization:

"It was an extremely hard race," he said. "Neutralization? Red flags? Motos? In the race, I knew nothing about that. We did out race on the descent and it all happened on the final climb. I went down as fast as I could.”

"It was a difficult stage for me because of the rain. I felt much better on the climbs. In the final part, I waited until the last two kilometers to attack to avoid getting trapped on the flat parts near the end. I’m only two minutes from the 2nd place overall. We are all very close in standings and everything is still possible.”

“That was an extremely difficult stage that will affect the already tired bodies after two racing weeks," sports director Laurent Biondi said. "The team did a very good stage and our riders demonstrated how courageous and determined they are. We have shown a great collective spirit since the start of the Giro and the race is not finished yet, there are still many things to do.”

frenchfighter

Although Tinkoff and OPQS DS tries to say it was Quintana who attacked, according to what Quintana has said this was not the case. Nice comments generally.

“The peloton was compact until the top of the Stelvio. Then the attacks started: there was a rider with Team Colombia, two riders from of AG2R, one from Sky. They started to descend fast. I just stayed on a team-mate’s wheel. Europcar and Hesjedal started going strong and Izagirre and myself followed their wheels.

"When we got to the bottom of the descent, we saw the group was split. It wasn't an attack, by any means. We came down at some speed, and at the foot of the descent I realised that there were 6 of us in a group behind the breakaway. In any case, the time I gained on my rivals was mostly made on the final climb. I don’t see any grounds for controversy.

"I'm still struggling with that flu and some coughing. I'm sure my rivals will attack in the stages remaining, but I think my body is going better and better, and I have a strong team by my side. You could see it in the Stelvio, where practically the whole team was into the first group. They also had troubles with allergies and crashes, but are getting over that. I'm sure they will help me with all they can to control the race until the very last day.

“I’ve been confirming my 2nd place in the Tour de France all season. I won the Tour de San Luis at the start of the year, then finished 2nd in Tirreno-Adriatico, 5th in the Tour of Catalonia, just a few seconds behind the winner. So my 2nd place in the Tour last years wasn’t a fluke.

"I’ve worked hard and I continue to work hard for to be a Grand Tour contender. My objective here was to win the Maglia Rosa. Now I’m wearing it, despite the fact that many people had written me off because of my problems. But you don’t lose your class.”

"This gives me confidence and confirms I can do great things in the present and future. I dedicate this to my team. I owe them everything."

frenchfighter

Cioni:

"Our guys got stuck into it today and no-one really struggled out there. We had a lot of personnel on the side of the road giving out warm clothes and drinks and things. That allowed us to be active and Dario put in a really brave ride.

"He was a bit unlucky that there had been the split in the GC group because it meant Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal went 100% until the end. Otherwise he might have stayed away. Even so, he can be really proud of his performance today, as can Swifty, Philip [Deignan] and Sebastian.

"Sebasitan did really well to be part of a really select group on the third and final climb, and I'm sure he will remember this day for many years to come.

"It's one of the first times he's ever been up there with the big guys and that will give him a big boost in confidence moving forwards. He's still only 20 years old and has a big future ahead of him."

frenchfighter

This and all the ones above taken from: http://cyclingquotes.com/
Great site for collating what was said.

“The final climb suited me really well, and after a number of attacks by others, I felt that I was one of the strongest in our group. I accelerated and distanced the rest easily. Then I just kept going until the line.”

“It was a very special day,” said Kelderman. “I’m happy you don’t often experience days like this. The climb of the Gavia was not too bad, but during the descent, it started too snow very heavily. It was terribly cold and my hands felt like lumps. It was dangerous, as well, because I could no longer see through my glasses.

“While climbing the Stelvio, I warmed up again. At the top, I took my time to put on a raincoat as the jury had announced that the downhill would be neutralised. When I made my way back to the main group, however, Quintana, Hesjedal and Rolland were gone.

"Looking back on that, it’s a bit unfair because I wouldn’t have stopped if I hadn’t heard about the neutralisation. Rolland is now ahead of me in the overall. Normally, I think I could have followed him.”

“With a little bit of luck you can move up quickly,” Kelderman said. “But everything is still possible. A top ten remains my main goal.”

Sports Director Frans Maassen was in his car during the stage and witnessed first-hand how much the riders were suffering.

"Of course, Wilco did a fantastic job, but today was no joke. It was irresponsible, horrible. I saw riders cry and some of them were even suffering from hypothermia. No, it was no fun at all. It was a bizarre day.

“The organisation told the sports directors that the descent of the Stelvio would be neutralised, but now they’re claiming that the message was only meant to warn us of the descent.

“All of our men survived today, but this stage should’ve never taken place. It’s too bad that the teams don’t come together, be unambiguous and make a statement.”

fleshtuxedo

Quintana:

"I'm still struggling with that flu and some coughing"

Really? Didn't see him cough once in the last 40k he was destroying the rest of the field. Maybe someone out there believes him.

frenchfighter

Well worth going through these photos:
http://www.steephill.tv/2014/giro-d-ita ... /stage-16/

alan_a

Richmond Racer wrote:

knedlicky wrote:

Richmond Racer said she would be at the top of the Stelvio.

As always, awe-inspiring how many fans put up with chuffing awful weather to stand on the roadside and cheer on the riders

Clearly a forefoot striker. Is RR a triathlete?

frenchfighter

I was surprised that the margin hardly came down in the valley given there was a decent group behind with a few teams represented vs two domestiques...those two did an amazing job.