Giro 2014 - Stage 16: Val Martello *Spoilers*
Comments
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Surely this sort of thing happens often enough in cycling for the riders to know that they should race to the finish in all circumstances. No matter what they think they have heard.0
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that's the same pierre rolland who attacked when half the peleton had tacs in their tyres. not sure he's the most honourable person to rely on."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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TheBigBean wrote:Surely this sort of thing happens often enough in cycling for the riders to know that they should race to the finish in all circumstances. No matter what they think they have heard.
I agree with this. The other teams are risking a Quintana spanking of a gratuitous couple of minutes to erase any doubt as to his superiority.
But I also agree with the points made above that the final climb would have played out differently had the GC group been together. Some on GC would have benefitted from being closer to Ryder's vacuum....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
TheBigBean wrote:Surely this sort of thing happens often enough in cycling for the riders to know that they should race to the finish in all circumstances. No matter what they think they have heard.
+10 -
What constantly surprises me is the inappropriate clothing they are wearing for the conditions when they are sponsored by top of the line clothing manufacturers.
They know it was cold, wet, snowy etc etc. Put on a waterproof? If it gets hot, it's not like your bidet is full of hot tea (or maybe it is?). Put full gloves on? It's hardly rocket science. I'm sure a sweaty hand is better than 2 frozen blobs on the end of your arms, and you can always remove gloves at the end of the final descent. Full arm/leg warmers which can be rolled down. Skull cap which you can remove. Likewise a neckwarmer (with velco fastening for easy removal?
It hardly makes the clothing sponsors look great when all their riders are freezing to death!
(i'm sure someone said this after last year's Milan-sanremo but seriously....)0 -
I was looking at the UCI Regs and its "Scale of Penalties for Race Incidents": the only obviously relevant one in the list is "Failure to respect instructions by the race administration" which has minor financial penalties (and really seems to be about teams not moving their cars!). So they really will be making it up as they go along.0
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Cant blame the suppliers. The riders (ive seen Cadel & Rolland say this) didnt eat or drink on the stage how can you expect them to consider the appropriate fashion for the occasion if they let the basics slide?0
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Smokey Bacon wrote:Cant blame the suppliers. The riders (ive seen Cadel & Rolland say this) didnt eat or drink on the stage how can you expect them to consider the appropriate fashion for the occasion if they let the basics slide?
I don't blame them - I blame the riders and DS's (to a certain extent). What I'm saying is that the suppliers must be livid if they want coverage for their clothing (let's face it, summer kit is all much of a muchness - winter kit is where the big differences are) and they are all left freezing to death - it's could appear that the manufacturers don't make anything for those conditions so the 'best' the riders can do with what the suppliers make available is to freeze to death.
If I were the sponsor I would want know why I am providing world-leading kit, for the riders to go out in summer jerseys, get soaked and freeze anyway when they could have a fresh l/s jersey each time the old one was soaked through.0 -
Smokey Bacon wrote:Cant blame the suppliers. The riders (ive seen Cadel & Rolland say this) didnt eat or drink on the stage how can you expect them to consider the appropriate fashion for the occasion if they let the basics slide?
They're hardly new at this eating thing though are they - too cold to open gels / bars and no car to help out?0 -
The word is that the other teams are demanding a removal of 55 seconds from Quintana's time.
Some arbitrary figure arrived at from the descent differentials, I suppose.
Theoretically, this could be achieved by penalising Quintana 55" for passing the red flag waving motor bike.
Not really an admission of guilt that the descent was neutralised by the officials, but still an infringement of the instructions given out over race radio."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
coriordan wrote:They know it was cold, wet, snowy etc etc. Put on a waterproof? If it gets hot, it's not like your bidet is full of hot tea (or maybe it is?).
I've had several exotic encouters with Japanese bidets, but I've yet to find one full of hot tea. [It's worth getting a safety briefing before attempting any sudden moves with one of these things.]
...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
That would actually seem a fair compromise (assuming he did actually pass a red flag having been told not to). It would also make the next few days of racing very interesting. It needs to be decided today what, if anything, will be done though.0
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Macaloon wrote:coriordan wrote:They know it was cold, wet, snowy etc etc. Put on a waterproof? If it gets hot, it's not like your bidet is full of hot tea (or maybe it is?).
I've had several exotic encouters with Japanese bidets, but I've yet to find one full of hot tea. [It's worth getting a safety briefing before attempting any sudden moves with one of these things.]
[Image removed]
Oh god dammit. Waterbottle (or Thermos flask, as the case may be).0 -
GSVBagpuss wrote:Smokey Bacon wrote:Cant blame the suppliers. The riders (ive seen Cadel & Rolland say this) didnt eat or drink on the stage how can you expect them to consider the appropriate fashion for the occasion if they let the basics slide?
They're hardly new at this eating thing though are they - too cold to open gels / bars and no car to help out?
When you're racing, you don't really want to eat when climbing as the body has enough to do without trying to digest food, then on cold, wet days like yesterday, it's very difficult to eat and drink on the descents as your hands are frozen and you're struggling to control the bike. Which gives very small windows of opportunity to eat and drink.
It's very different to stuffing your face sat in your comfortable, warm and dry armchair.0 -
coriordan wrote:What constantly surprises me is the inappropriate clothing they are wearing for the conditions when they are sponsored by top of the line clothing manufacturers.
They know it was cold, wet, snowy etc etc. Put on a waterproof? If it gets hot, it's not like your bidet is full of hot tea (or maybe it is?). Put full gloves on? It's hardly rocket science. I'm sure a sweaty hand is better than 2 frozen blobs on the end of your arms, and you can always remove gloves at the end of the final descent. Full arm/leg warmers which can be rolled down. Skull cap which you can remove. Likewise a neckwarmer (with velco fastening for easy removal?
It hardly makes the clothing sponsors look great when all their riders are freezing to death!
(i'm sure someone said this after last year's Milan-sanremo but seriously....)
Well it's worth a try but I don't expect a rapid response
@endura @CastelliCycling @sportful Can you confirm/deny that you supply teams with adequate winter/cold clothing for days like yesterday?We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
andyp wrote:GSVBagpuss wrote:Smokey Bacon wrote:Cant blame the suppliers. The riders (ive seen Cadel & Rolland say this) didnt eat or drink on the stage how can you expect them to consider the appropriate fashion for the occasion if they let the basics slide?
They're hardly new at this eating thing though are they - too cold to open gels / bars and no car to help out?
When you're racing, you don't really want to eat when climbing as the body has enough to do without trying to digest food, then on cold, wet days like yesterday, it's very difficult to eat and drink on the descents as your hands are frozen and you're struggling to control the bike. Which gives very small windows of opportunity to eat and drink.
It's very different to stuffing your face sat in your comfortable, warm and dry armchair.
Difficult, undoubtedly. Impossible, I dont think so. Especially in light of the consequences of the drop off in performance if/when you pop.0 -
"The results of yesterday's stages should have been neutralized, they should have cancelled them all," Tinkov said after speaking his mind at the start of the team manager meeting.
"That's my personal opinion. I was at the top of the Stelvio because I'd ridden up and I saw Quintana attack while the others stopped to get changed."
"There will be an official statement but I'm just giving my opinion. If this sport wants to get bigger, it has got to change. What happened is incredible. We've got to have clear rules, a more professional race organization. At the moments it’s just a big mess.”
I like this guy.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:The word is that the other teams are demanding a removal of 55 seconds from Quintana's time.
Some arbitrary figure arrived at from the descent differentials, I suppose.
Theoretically, this could be achieved by penalising Quintana 55" for passing the red flag waving motor bike.
Not really an admission of guilt that the descent was neutralised by the officials, but still an infringement of the instructions given out over race radio.
Assuming that they did actually pass the red flag, and that they were explicitly told not to, then surely the penalty has to be applied to Rolland and Hesjedal as well.
By the way this Spanish commentary from ESPN is quite funny:
http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube ... -o&yr=20140 -
ddraver wrote:coriordan wrote:Clothes stuff
Well it's worth a try but I don't expect a rapid response
@endura @CastelliCycling @sportful Can you confirm/deny that you supply teams with adequate winter/cold clothing for days like yesterday?
Sportful @sportful
@ddraver we work w team to make sure riders have right clothing for ALL conditions, not 1 @tinkoff_saxo rider was dropped yesterday!
Zing!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
"There will be an official statement but I'm just giving my opinion. If this sport wants to get bigger, it has got to change. What happened is incredible. We've got to have clear rules, a more professional race organization. At the moments it’s just a big mess"
I agree with him there. We saw it last year in the Tour where they were still debating where the finish would be when the riders were only a few km from the original finish. And to still be wondering whether to neutralise the descent when the peloton was basically already at the top of the mountain was pathetic.
The race organisation is still a bit 'jumpers for goalposts'0 -
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-di ... he-stelvioCyclingnews wrote:As the peloton headed up the Stelvio, the highest point in the entire race, race radio issued the following message to the teams in Italian, French and English.
“Attention: A communication to directeur sportives. The management of the organisation have planned to put ahead of the head of the riders, depending on the situation, of course, after the top, to place in front of various groups an organisation moto with a red flag. All to avoid having attacks on the descent and after this to ensure that the riders remain in their positions and to prevent taking big risks and, for all, to remain in this position until the security agents lower the red flag.”
Not sure if that's a transcript of the English message, or if it's translated from the Italian or French message, but it's incredibly ambiguous and I can certainly see why teams and riders got confused. Attempting to pace the riders down the descent sounds like the worst possible solution. I'd have thought they would have been better to completely neutralise the descent, regroup at the bottom of the climb and then set the various groups off one at a time based on the time gaps they had at the top. Or do nothing at all and just let them race.0 -
ddraver wrote:Endura @endura
@ddraver @CastelliCycling @sportful Confirmed. We provide our teams with a wide selection of kit - developed & produced here in Scotland.
Ha ha ha ha, i.e. the weather is sh*te here so we know what we're doing.Correlation is not causation.0 -
ddraver - ask them if it annoys them when the riders neglect to wear it and subsequently whinge about freezing to death?0
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Belgian TV reporting that teams have requested any gains on Stelvio descent be subtracted which would put Uran back in pink albeit by a very small margin0
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Lots more great photos on his flickr.
Contador is the Greatest0 -
More from Rolland.
“I started the descent of the Stelvio in the first few riders because on the way down the Gavia a lot of riders had attacked on the descent,” Rolland said. “I attacked it with my teammate Romain [Sicard] and we were first and second in the group. But we did the descent very calmly because we didn’t want to take risks, that’s all.
“Then Quintana came back up and was going very fast. Romain went after him and then I passed Romain just to follow Quintana. For a long time, it was just the two of us and then [Gorka] Izaguirre caught up and he did the whole end of the descent à fond – full on.”
Rolland said that he was unaware of any suggestion of neutralisation – “With all the racing capes and wet weather clothing, my radio was coming in and out all day long, so to pass on information in those conditions is almost impossible” – and said that he did not see any red flag as he made his way down the Stelvio.
“No, I didn’t see because I was busy enough trying to figure out my own trajectory on slippery roads,” he said. “You can imagine how it is at an altitude 2700 metres, in all that snow – you see motorbikes alright but personally I didn’t notice any red flag.”
“You could see the solidarity that was there yesterday morning. Before the race started, we had spoken about neutralising the Gavia and then a rider from Katusha clearly decided otherwise and the attacking kicked off,” Rolland said.
“If you want to stop the race, then stop it all, but why make us climb the Gavia and then have us stop on top of the Stelvio? It’s not correct.”Contador is the Greatest0 -
From Nalini - @ddraver Our winter clothes are designed to face rain, storm and snow. The problem of these weather conditions is #safety not equipment.
asked
Accept that, but why then is it so common to hear riders complaining of cold/wet etc.We can't all ride in Pro summer conditions
Does it frustrate you when you hear such complaints as yesterdayWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
