Froome on Wiggins and more

iainf72

But then, BC have done more for Froome than Kenyan cycling ever has, so if he declared for them it would be disloyal and no one would appreciate that.

I reckon he can't win

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

But then, BC have done more for Froome than Kenyan cycling ever has, so if he declared for them it would be disloyal and no one would appreciate that.

I reckon he can't win

Except a bike racing.

NervexProf

BigMat wrote:

Maybe its not the "Britishness" that I have an affinity with, more the fact that Wiggins has grown up in the same race scene that I'm a part of. To be fair, I couldn't care less whether he is "British" or not, he could have been born in Belgium with an Australian father for all I care.

I would probably be more likely to back Froome if he declared for Kenya - there's a lot of love on these boards for MTN for example. A lot of people like to see new countries getting in on the act and breaking down the boundaries that have prevented the sport being truly global. Until relatively recently it was the Brits who had that issue (which maybe explains why I am at times quite nationalistic in my support of cyclists - quite the opposite of my usual stance) but now I reckon Froome could do a lot of good for Kenyan cycling. To be fair, I think he probably does do a lot of good for Kenyan cycling.

Some insight here - 'Made in Kenya'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxjGFuCiaoQ

weadmire

And in any case there is more to plasticity than birthplaces and passports - Wiggins is box office because he is witty, spontaneous, irascible, does not take himself too seriously, he is the antithesis of "plastic". Froome meanwhile? Let's say spontaneity is not the word that comes to mind. The rest of the tactical stuff in this thread is a load of speculative, often partisan cobblers that can only reasonably be resolved by letting him race.

above_the_cows

TMR wrote:

I don't consider Froome to be British because he wasn't born here and he wasn't brought up here. The fact he has a British passport doesn't make him British. He's not, and not amount of argument from you is going to make me feel otherwise. There's an Australian lad at work who now has a British passport - is he British as well? I really can't make my view on this any clearer for you, so I hope you can grasp it this time. I don't hate Froome because he's Kenyan. In fact, I don't hate Froome at all. I just think he's a dick and I don't like him. You don't know the first thing about me, so I am going to dismiss your xenophobic comments as absolute nonsense. You really couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

So there are different categories/standards/grades of British people then in your world? So there are 'in' groups and 'out' groups? There are some people that will never be British? That's good to know. How long does someone have to live in Britain as a British citizen before they can be seen as British to you?

If you don't hate Froome because he was born in Kenya then why did you bring up his nationality? What difference does it make? Unless of course you think said issue, over which he had no control, can be used as a form of abuse?

TMR wrote:

Who appointed you the political correctness tzar? Ironic as you're now you're accusing me of being right wing. Nice. You're wrong. As I said, you don't know the first thing about me.

This is not about being politically correct, its about not being offensive and using nationality or place of birth as a form of abuse. This is a fairly well established idea of polite behaviour in western liberal democracies these days. Xenophobia and patriotism is not a right left issue, its xenophobia and patriotism these things are not linked to specific political ideologies. They may play themselves out amongst specific political ideologies at specific historical moments but this does not mean that one political ideology has ownership of these behaviours or that there is a direct correlation between them.

TMR wrote:

You really aren't mature at all. You abuse the anonymity of the Internet to suit your little rants. You haven't called me out on anything - that's laughable - I repeated a term someone mentioned previously and you reacted again. Pathetic.

I'm not the one ranting, saying I hate people, using offensive terminology or using people's nationality as a form of abuse. Your are. I'm not the one going around calling people arrogant, pathetic or personally attacking them. You are. And yes I'm anonymous (not to many people on here I might add) just like you're anonymous. I'm not however using my anonymity to attack people on the basis of their nationality or place of birth. You are.

I suppose we must have different definitions of mature. For you maturity seems to be a label you can attach to people who don't challenge your viewpoints. Immaturity seems to be a label you apply to people who have the temerity to ask you to account for and take responsibility for your views and behaviour.

alihisgreat

OnYourRight wrote:

Culturally they are both as British as they come, though they express different aspects of the British psyche.

Wiggins drinks lager, wears Paul Smith, and confuses outsiders with his deadpan humour.

Froome is old-school, polite and proper, has colonial overtones, went to a boys boarding school, and loves Africa. He says he feels 100 % British, which should really put an end to this debate (but won’t, I’m sure).

But he would say that though wouldn't he

iainf72

I'm sure I'm the only one but Wiggins public persona always feels forced to me. It's like he's a cartoon geezer which is probably a large part of his appeal But then I generally find the whole "I'm into a culture from before I was born" thing quite strange (in all people)

Also, with the UK focus on Olympics his profile much higher and always would be.

Turfle

iainf72 wrote:

But then, BC have done more for Froome than Kenyan cycling ever has, so if he declared for them it would be disloyal and no one would appreciate that.

I reckon he can't win

And if the stories we read are true, Froome has done more for Kenyan cycling than Kenyan Cycling ever has.

TMR

BigMat wrote:

Whether that difference is a valid stick to beat Froome with is an entirely different question.

Just for clarity, I am not using it as a stick to beat him with. My initial comment was that I wouldn't feel emotionally invested in SKY's success if Wiggins wasn't riding because I don't identify Froome as British.

That's all.

TMR

Above The Cows wrote:

If you don't hate Froome because he was born in Kenya then why did you bring up his nationality? What difference does it make? Unless of course you think said issue, over which he had no control, can be used as a form of abuse?

For the THIRD (3rd) time - because I didn't like the way you reacted when someone else used the term earlier. I didn't like the way you posted in response to that person and it gave me pleasure to annoy you.

Above The Cows wrote:

This is not about being politically correct, its about not being offensive and using nationality or place of birth as a form of abuse. This is a fairly well established idea of polite behaviour in western liberal democracies these days. Xenophobia and patriotism is not a right left issue, its xenophobia and patriotism these things are not linked to specific political ideologies. They may play themselves out amongst specific political ideologies at specific historical moments but this does not mean that one political ideology has ownership of these behaviours or that there is a direct correlation between them.

I disagree. It is about being politically correct. It isn't your place to dictate what people can and cannot post. If you don't like it then report a post to a Mod, that's what they are there for.

Above The Cows wrote:

I'm not the one ranting, saying I hate people, using offensive terminology or using people's nationality as a form of abuse. Your are. I'm not the one going around calling people arrogant, pathetic or personally attacking them. You are. And yes I'm anonymous (not to many people on here I might add) just like you're anonymous. I'm not however using my anonymity to attack people on the basis of their nationality or place of birth. You are.

Please link to a post of mine where I have said I 'hate' Froome. I've said he's a dick, I don't recall posting that I 'hate' him. That's a select word reserved for few.

I haven't used Froome's nationality to attack him, I used it to wind you up because I think you are too big for your boots and it gave me pleasure to do so. You should go back an re-read how you responded to the forum member who originally used the term 'Plastic Brit' and view it from an impartial perspective if you can. You aren't whiter than white.

Yes, I am prone to losing my temper, I am the same in real life. I am not a forum warrior, what you see is what you get. On balance, I contribute more than I subtract, but certain forum behaviour is a red rag to a bull. I make no apologies. I'm happy to discuss this face to face if you ever come to a London meet - you're going to have to come up with far more persuasive arguments if you are going to change my mind.

Above The Cows wrote:

I suppose we must have different definitions of mature. For you maturity seems to be a label you can attach to people who don't challenge your viewpoints. Immaturity seems to be a label you apply to people who have the temerity to ask you to account for and take responsibility for your views and behaviour.

That's untrue. I don't think you're immature.

above_the_cows

TMR wrote:

For the THIRD (3rd) time - because I didn't like the way you reacted when someone else used the term earlier. I didn't like the way you posted in response to that person and it gave me pleasure to annoy you.

So you take pleasure from annoying other people? That's nice. Very mature if I may use a contentious word. You don't like something and you automatically switch to personal attacks and abuse? Again very mature.

TMR wrote:

I disagree. It is about being politically correct. It isn't your place to dictate what people can and cannot post. If you don't like it then report a post to a Mod, that's what they are there for.

I am quite within my right to ask people to not use nationality to abuse other people. It's not dictating, it is asking (there is a difference) people not to do something I find offensive. You might not like the request but then don't personally attack the person making the request and take pleasure from it (as you yourself admit).

TMR wrote:

Please link to a post of mine where I have said I 'hate' Froome. I've said he's a dick, I don't recall posting that I 'hate' him. That's a select word reserved for few.

OK so you think he is a dick. Why then use his nationality as a form of abuse? What has that got to do with him being a dick?

TMR wrote:

I haven't used Froome's nationality to attack him, I used it to wind you up because I think you are too big for your boots and it gave me pleasure to do so. You should go back an re-read how you responded to the forum member who originally used the term 'Plastic Brit' and view it from an impartial perspective if you can. You aren't whiter than white.

Except you did. You called him a 'plastic' Brit. That is using someone's nationality to attack them otherwise why mention it at all? You say it was to wind me up. So you purposefully used offensive language in the hope of winding me up to pleasure yourself?

Wow.

Or were you being purposefully offensive and resorting to personal attacks in the hope of shutting down a debate and/or me?

TMR wrote:

Yes, I am prone to losing my temper, I am the same in real life. I am not a forum warrior, what you see is what you get. On balance, I contribute more than I subtract, but certain forum behaviour is a red rag to a bull. I make no apologies. I'm happy to discuss this face to face if you ever come to a London meet - you're going to have to come up with far more persuasive arguments if you are going to change my mind.

Loosing your temper is one thing, personally attacking others and using offensive language when you run out of sensible argument and admitting to enjoying it is, well...

Wow.

TMR wrote:

That's untrue. I don't think you're immature.

Except you said:

TMR wrote:

You really aren't mature at all.

So if I'm not immature and I'm not immature, what am I if we're going to assume this is a dichotomy?

Gazzaputt

You had it coming Above the cows

The only thing British in Froome is his passport of convenience.

salsiccia1

Is it safe to pop in to this thread? :shock:

I don't know if it's been posted (possibly lost in the mists of time), but Inner Ring had an interesting take in his review of Froome's book http://inrng.com/2014/06/book-review-the-climb-chris-froome:

Inner Ring wrote:

If you’re wondering why Bradley Wiggins isn’t riding the Tour de France the answer is in the book: it’s not just that they don’t get along, it’s because the antagonism is destructive.

FocusZing

"Chris Froome mother's British parents emigrated from Tetbury,
Gloucestershire, England to Kenya to run a crop farm".

Prince Charles lives near Tetbury and likes looking at stems.



I tell thee it's in his genes, Froome is British!

jimmythecuckoo

TailWindHome wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

So is Wiggins pencilled in for the Tour of Poland then should he not ride Le Tour?

talking of boring (generally)

Harsh on Jimmy that!

Not really... I have him bob on

Turfle

I like the Tour of Poland.

Turfle

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Is it safe to pop in to this thread? :shock:

I don't know if it's been posted (possibly lost in the mists of time), but Inner Ring had an interesting take in his review of Froome's book http://inrng.com/2014/06/book-review-the-climb-chris-froome:

Inner Ring wrote:

If you’re wondering why Bradley Wiggins isn’t riding the Tour de France the answer is in the book: it’s not just that they don’t get along, it’s because the antagonism is destructive.

The book makes it abundantly clear that Froome believes (fairly or not) that Wiggins went back on promises, and didn't work for him at Oman.

jimmythecuckoo

as do I

curium

These colonials were British enough during WW2 when bodies were needed to serve King & Country

salsiccia1

The nationality thing is a complete pile of ballbag. It doesn't make any difference that the two riders in question are Belgian/Australian and Kenyan/South African.

TMR

Salsiccia1 wrote:

The nationality thing is a complete pile of ballbag. It doesn't make any difference that the two riders in question are Belgian/Australian and Kenyan/South African.

To you.

PuttyKnees

I honestly thought that Wiggins did ride for Froome at Oman. I have a vague memory of him pulling on the front and many remarking at it.

TMR

Above The Cows wrote:

</stuff>

*sigh*

This is going no where.

salsiccia1

TMR wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

The nationality thing is a complete pile of ballbag. It doesn't make any difference that the two riders in question are Belgian/Australian and Kenyan/South African.

To you.

To me.

salsiccia1

PuttyKnees wrote:

I honestly thought that Wiggins did ride for Froome at Oman. I have a vague memory of him pulling on the front and many remarking at it.

He was probably glass-cranking, but made it look like he was working.

Yellow Peril

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

So is Wiggins pencilled in for the Tour of Poland then should he not ride Le Tour?

talking of boring (generally)

Harsh on Jimmy that!

Not really... I have him bob on

For the avoidance of doubt the Tour of Poland...not Jimmy :oops:

tuneskyline

Salsiccia1 wrote:

The nationality thing is a complete pile of ballbag. It doesn't make any difference that the two riders in question are Belgian/Australian and Kenyan/South African.

I agree. Your nationality does not make you behave like an ar%%ho%% unless your a xenophobe and have a need to feel you are superior. Look how upset some people are getting about where someone is born. I was born in England and my mum was not. I always cheer for the African teams at the world cup. They are entertaining to watch in my view and it makes the world cup more fun. I cheer for Andy Schleck even though is pretty rubbish right now and the dream could be over One day the earth will get invaded by aliens and we will all have to fight them off like Will Smith and Jeff Goldbum did in that space film invasion thingy on the telly. Why the Fu%% did the Poles not win the Eurovision song contest....it was a sham and swindle Sir

TMR

Really wish the Mods would ban alt accounts. Perma-ban those that make them. IPs really aren't hard to check.

ddraver

They do - I think the accounts in question are cut from the same cloth rather than being the same...

iainf72

PuttyKnees wrote:

I honestly thought that Wiggins did ride for Froome at Oman. I have a vague memory of him pulling on the front and many remarking at it.

I'm wondering when the relationship went to pieces. Was it rubbish at the Dolphin in 2012?