Froome on Wiggins and more

bdu98252

When was the last time a team went to the Tour de France with a single leader and that leader within the first week crashed and broke his collarbone putting him out. I remember this happening to Bradley Wiggins in the not too dim and distant past for Sky.

How good would Dave look if we got all the way to the event and then Froome is out within a week. Would you want Porte as the leader? If Bradleys numbers suggest he is on form then I would take the difficult team atmosphere over potential for complete failure. We can't see their numbers but I bet the Sky management can.

6wheels

the article don wrote:

Froome was also in the Guaridan magazine on Saturday. He was boring there too.

Just been watching the Dauphine, he definitely is not boring on a bike!

Macaloon

6wheels wrote:

the article don wrote:

Froome was also in the Guaridan magazine on Saturday. He was boring there too.

Just been watching the Dauphine, he definitely is not boring on a bike!

He's the most boring rider since Contador in his prime.

DeVlaeminck

Richmond Racer's post above pretty much sums it up. Everything Wiggins has done or said in about the last 12 months has been consistent with him wanting to ride in the Tour in a support role. What are the chances it has all been a big act and he's either going to be totally uncommitted and not help much or else he's going to try and win it himself. The former would just damage his reputation as a rider and as a person - the latter would likely do the same unless by some miracle he could actually win it. He may have an egotistical streak but I don't think he's a fool and he doesn't come across as calculating or a great actor either.

I think we have to accept that Wiggins isn't being left out of the team because they fear he wouldn't pull his weight. That leaves either him being so unpopular with the team that he would upset everyone, which Iain has implied may be the case but I haven't see any evidence, or Froome still feels aggrieved with him and just doesn't want him there. I'm struggling to see how it isn't the latter and that pretty much boils down to revenge and weak leadership from Brailsford. I said I expect to see a character assassination of Wiggins to justify the decision and by the sounds of it that has already started in the Times - Brailsford will put the knife in rather than have his reputation as a leadership guru damaged.

PuttyKnees

Wiggins looked transformed in the BBC interview and I find it hard to believe that he was trying to be a puppet master. It seemed to be a person at ease with himself and largely, with the decision, quite unlike last year.

Froome obviously can't stand him, so he isn't going. I'm not sure who's fault it was, but clearly there was a lot of pressure on all the riders back in 2011/12, with Brailsford railing on Froome and the expectations on Wiggins to win. The bad blood is really a consequence of Brailsford's management style, actively promoting discontent to increase performance. Well this is the fallout. Two proven winners who can't be in the same team. What a waste.

jimmythecuckoo

So is Wiggins pencilled in for the Tour of Poland then should he not ride Le Tour?

frenchfighter

Macaloon wrote:

6wheels wrote:

the article don wrote:

Froome was also in the Guaridan magazine on Saturday. He was boring there too.

Just been watching the Dauphine, he definitely is not boring on a bike!

He's the most boring rider since Contador in his prime.

Don't confuse a humble gentleman with a boring person.

Yellow Peril

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

So is Wiggins pencilled in for the Tour of Poland then should he not ride Le Tour?

talking of boring (generally)

tailwindhome

Are you watchin'
Are you watchin'
Are you watchin' Bra-del-eee!
Are you watchin' Bra-del-eee!



Sorry :oops:

tailwindhome

Yellow Peril wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

So is Wiggins pencilled in for the Tour of Poland then should he not ride Le Tour?

talking of boring (generally)

Harsh on Jimmy that!

iainf72

Something we've not touched on much in this thread : in l'equipe Wiggins said he'd not been offered a contract extension.

Will he?

Macaloon

It's quite possible after today's weak performance (unless it was a cunning plan) that Porte won't make the Tour team. Doubt Wiggo will ride even in this circumstance. What a shambles.

morstar

iainf72 wrote:

Something we've not touched on much in this thread : in l'equipe Wiggins said he'd not been offered a contract extension.

Will he?

a) Why would they?
b) Why would he accept?

For each positive answer to each of those questions, there's dozens of negative ones.

Jez mon

iainf72 wrote:

Something we've not touched on much in this thread : in l'equipe Wiggins said he'd not been offered a contract extension.

Will he?

Why would Sky want him? I mean I get why BSkyB would want him in their branded kit, but why would Brailsford et al. want him? As an outside chance for a P-R win?

Perhaps they'll offer him a smaller amount of money, with the proviso that he's not gonna get a look in as a Tour de France rider, but can ride P-R and the occasional chipper as a protected rider, and can train with the goal of getting a medal in Rio when that comes around...

Turfle

He's still one of the top 2 or 3 time trialists in the world. If he would be happy to have a similar calendar to this year, say go for the cobbles races (not just PR), and spend the rest of the year targeting TTs, and stage races with TTs in them, then I'm sure Sky would gladly welcome him back.

symo

Yes cos Sky have been really note worthy in PR till Wiggins showed up this year. Yes they really were excellent till he ruined it this year for Sky eh

tailwindhome

symo wrote:

Yes cos Sky have been really note worthy in PR till Wiggins showed up this year. Yes they really were excellent till he ruined it this year for Sky eh

Wiggins wasn't their top rider in PR this year

iainf72

Jez mon wrote:

Perhaps they'll offer him a smaller amount of money, with the proviso that he's not gonna get a look in as a Tour de France rider, but can ride P-R and the occasional chipper as a protected rider, and can train with the goal of getting a medal in Rio when that comes around...

You sound like a certain Bradleeeee fan on here who I had this discussion with privately a couple of months ago.



But that is feasible.

G in the midst of contract negotiations and BW saying he's not been offered anything.

morstar

Wiggins is a prickly character no doubt and the fall out with Froome is well documented.

But, he has kept schtum off the bike and set about delivering results on the bike. Not a lot more he could have done this year.
If he wants to be at the TdF again before he retires (and it appears he does), he needs a new team.

Jez mon

iainf72 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Perhaps they'll offer him a smaller amount of money, with the proviso that he's not gonna get a look in as a Tour de France rider, but can ride P-R and the occasional chipper as a protected rider, and can train with the goal of getting a medal in Rio when that comes around...

You sound like a certain Bradleeeee fan on here who I had this discussion with privately a couple of months ago.



But that is feasible.

G in the midst of contract negotiations and BW saying he's not been offered anything.

Well...great minds think alike (hopefully )

I think BW staying at Sky would be the best result for both team and rider. For BW, he gets what is probably the best team set up around (OK it doesn't seem to work well for some riders, but it unquestionably has been a successful set up for him) as well as (possibly) some degree of freedom wrt what he races (so long as it isn't le tour). For Sky, it's the best known British rider riding for the best British team, it sells set top boxes (possibly).

But then what do I know, he's seemingly not been offered anything.

TMR

Above The Cows wrote:

So you can't or won't actually answer my question about who is or who isn't a plastic Brit? I'm thinking it's that you can't because you realise that in doing this you will mark your cards as a bit of a xenophobe but there we go.

I don't consider Froome to be British because he wasn't born here and he wasn't brought up here. The fact he has a British passport doesn't make him British. He's not, and not amount of argument from you is going to make me feel otherwise. There's an Australian lad at work who now has a British passport - is he British as well? I really can't make my view on this any clearer for you, so I hope you can grasp it this time. I don't hate Froome because he's Kenyan. In fact, I don't hate Froome at all. I just think he's a dick and I don't like him. You don't know the first thing about me, so I am going to dismiss your xenophobic comments as absolute nonsense. You really couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

If its out of order to call someone out on using nationality to personally attack someone then I am happy to be out of order until the end of my days. I don't like people that do that, I have a thing about xenophobes hiding behind the flag of a patriotism they won't or can't actually define, it is the last refuge of the scoundrel after all.

Who appointed you the political correctness tzar? Ironic as you're now you're accusing me of being right wing. Nice. You're wrong. As I said, you don't know the first thing about me.

And you can call me arrogant if you like. I would prefer to think of myself as well just a little bit mature and reflexive and able to actually account for and explain my opinions whereas your modus operandi going on this and past form is to just resort to personal attacks and profanities in the hope of not having to account for your opinions when people call you out on them. But if you see that as arrogant then that says more about you than it does about me.

You really aren't mature at all. You abuse the anonymity of the Internet to suit your little rants. You haven't called me out on anything - that's laughable - I repeated a term someone mentioned previously and you reacted again. Pathetic.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Perhaps they'll offer him a smaller amount of money, with the proviso that he's not gonna get a look in as a Tour de France rider, but can ride P-R and the occasional chipper as a protected rider, and can train with the goal of getting a medal in Rio when that comes around...

You sound like a certain Bradleeeee fan on here who I had this discussion with privately a couple of months ago.

Was that me? I'm not a Bradleeeee fan (at least not five e's worth), but I did suggest something similar to you. I'm generally an arch-pragmatist.

Macaloon

RichN95 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Perhaps they'll offer him a smaller amount of money, with the proviso that he's not gonna get a look in as a Tour de France rider, but can ride P-R and the occasional chipper as a protected rider, and can train with the goal of getting a medal in Rio when that comes around...

You sound like a certain Bradleeeee fan on here who I had this discussion with privately a couple of months ago.

Was that me? I'm not a Bradleeeee fan (at least not five e's worth), but I did suggest something similar to you. I'm generally an arch-pragmatist.

The scenario does nothing for Fuller. Void Idol has been a disaster for Wiggins.

RichN95.

Macaloon wrote:

The scenario does nothing for Fuller. Void Idol has been a disaster for Wiggins.

Fuller isn't interested in sporting interests, he's interested in celebrity. Sky are a TV company, Orica blow up stuff. Who is most interesting to him?

Macaloon

RichN95 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

The scenario does nothing for Fuller. Void Idol has been a disaster for Wiggins.

Fuller isn't interested in sporting interests, he's interested in celebrity. Sky are a TV company, Orica blow up stuff. Who is most interesting to him?

Neither. He only cares about Wiggins having the highest possible profile. He'll only have that riding the Tour. Desperate cheap headlines now will tarnish Wiggo's long-term legacy. If he needs to leave, he could have done so with charm, reputation enhanced.

awavey

Macaloon wrote:

Neither. He only cares about Wiggins having the highest possible profile. He'll only have that riding the Tour. Desperate cheap headlines now will tarnish Wiggo's long-term legacy. If he needs to leave, he could have done so with charm, reputation enhanced.

its not just profile thing, its about wrangling the highest amount of money for his client in terms of sponsorship deals, appearances & contract deals, and if Wiggo is a free agent at the end of this year and Sky havent offered him anything yet (which is what he appears to have said) is something Fuller needs to be working on now to sort out, and part of that is making sure everyone is still talking about Wiggo, even if he isnt picked in the team for the biggest race of the year... and equally he needs to make sure it looks like he still has plenty of options.

part of me still thinks Sir Dave will pick him, but I notice even Wiggle Honda are getting in on the debate now as well, he didnt even attend their team launch this year did he ?

@wigglehonda
"Wiggle Honda's biggest individual supporter, Sir Bradley Wiggins speaks about his disappointment on missing the TDF: http://bbc.in/TBsm4W "

argyllflyer

TMR wrote:

I don't consider Froome to be British because he wasn't born here and he wasn't brought up here. The fact he has a British passport doesn't make him British. He's not, and not amount of argument from you is going to make me feel otherwise. There's an Australian lad at work who now has a British passport - is he British as well? I really can't make my view on this any clearer for you, so I hope you can grasp it this time.

Bradley Wiggins was born in Belgium to an Australian father and English mother. Froome was born in Kenya to an English father and 2nd generation British mother. The only difference between them was Brad moved to England aged 2 after his dad dumped him and his mum, and Froome was raised among the ex-pats, who are more British than the Brits!

Ancestrally, Froome is more British than Wiggins, assuming Wiggins' father's parents were also Aussies.

bigmat

argyllflyer wrote:

TMR wrote:

I don't consider Froome to be British because he wasn't born here and he wasn't brought up here. The fact he has a British passport doesn't make him British. He's not, and not amount of argument from you is going to make me feel otherwise. There's an Australian lad at work who now has a British passport - is he British as well? I really can't make my view on this any clearer for you, so I hope you can grasp it this time.

Bradley Wiggins was born in Belgium to an Australian father and English mother. Froome was born in Kenya to an English father and 2nd generation British mother. The only difference between them was Brad moved to England aged 2 after his dad dumped him and his mum, and Froome was raised among the ex-pats, who are more British than the Brits!

Ancestrally, Froome is more British than Wiggins, assuming Wiggins' father's parents were also Aussies.

Completely misses the point. Wiggins grew up racing bikes in Britain. He's done crits at Crystal Palace, track at Herne Hill, he's a former winner of my club's elite road race. He knows and is known by the characters on the domestic racing scene. He has been an integral part in the British track programme and has supported grass roots cycling with sportives, charity rides, also helping with the Wiggle Honda team etc. He's a former British road race and time trial champion. Froome just has a passport. Its a massive difference.

Whether that difference is a valid stick to beat Froome with is an entirely different question.

iainf72

BigMat wrote:

Whether that difference is a valid stick to beat Froome with is an entirely different question.

It must be pretty important. If Froome declared for Kenya would everyone love him?

bigmat

Maybe its not the "Britishness" that I have an affinity with, more the fact that Wiggins has grown up in the same race scene that I'm a part of. To be fair, I couldn't care less whether he is "British" or not, he could have been born in Belgium with an Australian father for all I care.

I would probably be more likely to back Froome if he declared for Kenya - there's a lot of love on these boards for MTN for example. A lot of people like to see new countries getting in on the act and breaking down the boundaries that have prevented the sport being truly global. Until relatively recently it was the Brits who had that issue (which maybe explains why I am at times quite nationalistic in my support of cyclists - quite the opposite of my usual stance) but now I reckon Froome could do a lot of good for Kenyan cycling. To be fair, I think he probably does do a lot of good for Kenyan cycling.