Froome on Wiggins and more

NervexProf

Review of Froome's book here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... tions.html

Interesting reading, notably Cav's support of Froome.

Macaloon

Team Soap Opera. How appropriate.

RichN95.

Variations on this happen at lots of teams, just not in books.

Graculus

I read the excerpt in The Sunday Times and was not impressed. Froome seems to have been genuinely amazed that Bradley Wiggins was chosen as protected rider, when Froome thought it should have been him. If Wiggins hadn't actually gone on to win (in some style) I could understand Froome feeling bitter about a missed opportunity, but as it stands the choice was surely justified!

I'm glad for him that he went on to win the following year, but it must have made a big difference having his best mate riding for him, rather than his worst enemy.

orangepip

let's be honest here, neither of them is particularly showing themselves to be mature...

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

slowbike

orangepip wrote:

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

that doesn't sell books though does it ...

Richmond Racer

orangepip wrote:

let's be honest here, neither of them is particularly showing themselves to be mature...

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

This is true.

Walsh is doing nicely out of the whole thing, too, it must be said. Two Sky-related books, and counting.

orangepip

Slowbike wrote:

orangepip wrote:

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

that doesn't sell books though does it ...

I know but :evil: it's so pathetic.

Macaloon

This is mainly down to the BBC. To justify the utterly outrageous sums squandered on Olympics coverage, the state broadcaster turned sport over to the light entertainment department. The machine needs drama. It's ludicrous.

ednino

Richmond Racer wrote:

orangepip wrote:

let's be honest here, neither of them is particularly showing themselves to be mature...

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

This is true.

Walsh is doing nicely out of the whole thing, too, it must be said. Two Sky-related books, and counting.

Cav's book too

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Variations on this happen at lots of teams, just not in books.

More fun for us if it is in a book.

Richmond Racer

Macaloon wrote:

This is mainly down to the BBC. To justify the utterly outrageous sums squandered on Olympics coverage, the state broadcaster turned sport over to the light entertainment department. The machine needs drama. It's ludicrous.

Eh? You are a bit obsessed with the BBC...

Sports coverage has always demanded and lapped up tits and tears from its protagonists, in cycling's case going back to the very start of bike races started by newspapers....

It has been and will remain ever thus. And if those protagonists will keep feeding the gaping maw of the machine with books, especially whilst they're still active within the sport...

Macaloon

Richmond Racer wrote:

Eh? You are a bit obsessed with the BBC...

Sports coverage has always demanded and lapped up tits and tears from its protagonists, in cycling's case going back to the very start of bike races started by newspapers....

It has been and will remain ever thus. And if those protagonists will keep feeding the gaping maw of the machine with books, especially whilst they're still active within the sport...

Better to be obsessed than possessed. Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad. What about Greipel, Kittel, Bouhanni for the points (or whatever Cav is not going to ride)? Tony Martin on a track?

No. The only reason British cycling at the top level is so distorted is because it's impossible to beat an Olympic Gold Medal Winner for profile due to the BBC.

DeVlaeminck

Very true but that's another multi page thread in itself.

Le Commentateur

ednino wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

orangepip wrote:

let's be honest here, neither of them is particularly showing themselves to be mature...

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

This is true.

Walsh is doing nicely out of the whole thing, too, it must be said. Two Sky-related books, and counting.

Cav's book too

That explains "Cav"'s support with the pretentious quote-on-a-note thing. Ghost writer as puppet master.

r0bh

Le Commentateur wrote:

ednino wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

orangepip wrote:

let's be honest here, neither of them is particularly showing themselves to be mature...

I would much rather they had kept the whole thing under wraps rather than having to go through it all again.

This is true.

Walsh is doing nicely out of the whole thing, too, it must be said. Two Sky-related books, and counting.

Cav's book too

That explains "Cav"'s support with the pretentious quote-on-a-note thing. Ghost writer as puppet master.

No. Daniel Friebe ghosted Cav's books.

andyp

Macaloon wrote:

Better to be obsessed than possessed. Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad.

Like Bobridge and Hepburn did for London?

So the answer would be yes then.

top_bhoy

Macaloon wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Eh? You are a bit obsessed with the BBC...

Sports coverage has always demanded and lapped up tits and tears from its protagonists, in cycling's case going back to the very start of bike races started by newspapers....

It has been and will remain ever thus. And if those protagonists will keep feeding the gaping maw of the machine with books, especially whilst they're still active within the sport...

Better to be obsessed than possessed. Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad. What about Greipel, Kittel, Bouhanni for the points (or whatever Cav is not going to ride)? Tony Martin on a track?

No. The only reason British cycling at the top level is so distorted is because it's impossible to beat an Olympic Gold Medal Winner for profile due to the BBC.

Is it your intent to denigrate track because you prefer road cycling over the track events? Why must it be one discipline over another; can't they simply co-exist as equals? Many people don't have a problem enjoying both, nor should they.

I'd suggest that Chris Hoy profile (who was the face of track cycling for many years) is greater than Wiggins and Cav...not because of their respective disciplines but because Chris Hoy has not shown himself up at any time to be a petulant brat whereas these other two 'stars' have. The failure of the road team to communicate properly to the media has worked against them hence the media react accordingly. The public find it easier to warm to Hoy than the other two mentioned.

Also, don't forget patriotism and its effect on matters...the track cycling is a GB team, the road team is Sky. Sky is seen by many as a mutlinational behmoth and find it hard to support.

ocdupalais

The BBC (and most other large broadcasters) can simultaneously contradict themselves by claiming to simply reflect the viewing tastes of their public on one hand and seeking to shape those tastes on the other.
Road racing has largely been a curious circus show for the British public for the last 50 years (check out the dreary spectacle that got made of the first Tour visit to UK in 1974), and except for a few individual rogue operatives in Europe (Simpson, Hoban, Millar, etc) largely without much to shout about - whereas track racing has had a strong culture from household name Reg Harris, through the strong line of pusuiting World Champs Hugh Porter, Tony Doyle, Colin Sturgess, Boardman, Obree... Up to Wiggins.

The Belgians have Flanders and we have the pursuit: I wish it was the other way round, but what can you do?

Daz555

Macaloon wrote:

Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad. What about Greipel, Kittel, Bouhanni for the points (or whatever Cav is not going to ride)? Tony Martin on a track?

No. The only reason British cycling at the top level is so distorted is because it's impossible to beat an Olympic Gold Medal Winner for profile due to the BBC.

The British public love the Olympics, always have, always will. And now thanks to Sir Dave and his mob the public love track cycling also. Oh and surprise surprise thanks to track boys ripping up the road like Boardman, Wiggo, G, Cav etc the public are growing more and more to love road cycling too.

And ask Cav what he thinks about Hoy. He'll tell you that Hoy is THE most important British cyclist. Hoy is one of the prime drivers for the popularity we see today in Britain for all forms of cycling.

Ask G if the Olympics are special. He'll tell you they ARE special - and that has nowt to do with the BBC pushing the profile of the Olympics. The BBC give us what we want. Perhaps the BBC are to blame for football being a more popular sport than road cycling too? Or darts. Or snooker. Nonsense.

Macaloon

andyp wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Better to be obsessed than possessed. Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad.

Like Bobridge and Hepburn did for London?

So the answer would be yes then.

And Thomas, Kennaugh & Swift. If the Aussies do it again for 2016, you'll have a better point.

Additionally, I'm not denigrating track at all. Just the distorted coverage of it. But having been politely asked to zip it. I will.

Anonymous

Macaloon wrote:

andyp wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Better to be obsessed than possessed. Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad.

Like Bobridge and Hepburn did for London?

So the answer would be yes then.

And Thomas, Kennaugh & Swift. If the Aussies do it again for 2016, you'll have a better point.

Additionally, I'm not denigrating track at all. Just the distorted coverage of it. But having been politely asked to zip it. I will.

The reason teams prioritise the track over road is the amount of medals, there is 4 opportunities to win a road medal for Olympic teams and numerous on the track. Medals mean coverage, coverage means more sponsorship, which means more money, more funding from national bodies.

mm1

The track also builds proper bikies, Simpson was no mean pursuiter (bronze 56 Olympics, silver 58 Commonwealth Games), and rode pretty much every track discipline except match sprints. At one time everyone rode the track, which is where they got their speed and bike handling. Then tracks like Paddington, Leicester etc were bulldozed. Gross generalisation maybe, but GB has a strong track tradition and when things are going well there, the road follows. I would argue that neglecting the track is a factor in the (relative) recent decline of Italian cycling...

PuttyKnees

I don't think that tradition has changed. e.g., BC don't value road as part of their olympic programme - pure road riders won't get selected, though I think that's more about medals on offer, control and amount of tactical racing that can be packed in than tradition.

The only interesting thing remaining about this W vs. F thing is that both have been totally played by Dave B. I can only presume they were told pretty much the same thing about tour leadership and opportunities, which is inevitably going to lead to friction. Which is of course one of the things that Dave B/Sutton have been quoted as being something that helps motivate riders.

DeVlaeminck

sjmclean wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

andyp wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

Better to be obsessed than possessed. Which other country elevates Olympic track medals above road honours? Will we have top OGE TT specialists taking a gap year to make their team pursuit squad.

Like Bobridge and Hepburn did for London?

So the answer would be yes then.

And Thomas, Kennaugh & Swift. If the Aussies do it again for 2016, you'll have a better point.

Additionally, I'm not denigrating track at all. Just the distorted coverage of it. But having been politely asked to zip it. I will.

The reason teams prioritise the track over road is the amount of medals, there is 4 opportunities to win a road medal for Olympic teams and numerous on the track. Medals mean coverage, coverage means more sponsorship, which means more money, more funding from national bodies.

Well medals means more funding from government for BC, naff all to do with sponsorship. If the government withdrew funding for medals the GB track programme would collapse and in a few years so would most of the velodromes ! If the Olympics includes cyclocross we will suddenly see BC get behind cyclocross.

It's all been good for cycling but it is a case of the tail wagging the dog. People watch the Olympics hence they watch track cycling, but on the whole road is where the popularity is both for spectating and participating. Track medals are undoubtedly much easier to win because the top talents generally race on the road.

As for track being a good grounding for developing cyclists, yes for some it can be depending on the type of rider they are. For the likes of Dan Martin it would only serve to hide his talent. Beyond a certain point it can also hold a rider back. Kennaugh is our hope for the future but he is as old as many of the GC contenders at the Giro. Thomas' talent is still not been realised and even Wiggo had road success fairly late given his huge ability. Of course if riders are happy to trade money, fame and reputation for track medals that is their choice, I just think some are persuaded down that route to keep the funding flowing.

PuttyKnees

It's not that they need to be persuaded - if you're not racing track, you're not going to get on the Olympic programme.

gsvbagpuss

It's also a bit harsh to talk about G and Little Pete - they didn't have a route to GT contendership 5 eyars ago so doubtless thought track was a better path for victories. It's only the success of Team Sky that has given them a chance at the big time

DeVlaeminck

Thomas finished the Tour in 2007 for Barloworld and had won the Junior Paris Roubaix - bit revisionist to claim he wouldn't have had a crack at the big time without Sky, I think he'd have a better palmares elsewhere. Same for Kennaugh. I wouldn't dispute the good work done in bringing young riders like them through but past a certain point the track focus has hindered their road careers.

ddraver

and in the UK, that's a much more financially rewarding option

r0bh

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Thomas finished the Tour in 2007 for Barloworld and had won the Junior Paris Roubaix - bit revisionist to claim he wouldn't have had a crack at the big time without Sky, I think he'd have a better palmares elsewhere. Same for Kennaugh. I wouldn't dispute the good work done in bringing young riders like them through but past a certain point the track focus has hindered their road careers.

But without the track success there wouldn't have been a Team Sky...

Personally I think that we've reached the tipping point where a road career is a better 'career choice' for a GB endurance rider than track, and the track team may start to go backwards (as has already happened at the last worlds to some extent)

DeVlaeminck

r0bh wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Thomas finished the Tour in 2007 for Barloworld and had won the Junior Paris Roubaix - bit revisionist to claim he wouldn't have had a crack at the big time without Sky, I think he'd have a better palmares elsewhere. Same for Kennaugh. I wouldn't dispute the good work done in bringing young riders like them through but past a certain point the track focus has hindered their road careers.

But without the track success there wouldn't have been a Team Sky...

Personally I think that we've reached the tipping point where a road career is a better 'career choice' for a GB endurance rider than track, and the track team may start to go backwards (as has already happened at the last worlds to some extent)

A road career has always been a better career for those that have the talent and opportunity to make it. I remember Wiggins saying he only felt financially secure when he finished 4th in the Tour for Garmin, that was bigger than Olympic gold medals in terms of securing his future.

What BC has been great at is bringing young riders through and the track programme has been a driver of that, funded on the back of track success. There is no argument that the chances of a young GB cyclist making it as a pro are infinitely better than they were 20 years ago. My only gripe is that the need to keep funding that programme means BC will always have an interest in steering the talent towards the track even where the riders' interests would be better served being steered towards the road. I wonder what would happen if the govt just gave BC a pot of money and said develop winners with that, I think we'd see more success on the road but less on the boards.