Carlton Kirby
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I had no idea it was coming up, but I immediately knew who it was.DeVlaeminck said:How was he meant to be ready for it ? Unless there is some briefing he failed to attend or memo he couldn't be bothered to read?
He said in the commentary he looked in the notes (Jonno's notes?) and there was nothing there. Also as it panned across initially it was just the face so he was already talking about it before it became obvious it was in memory of someone.
Much of the criticism Kirby receives is regarding his insistence upon rolling out his Kirbyisms at the expense of any overnight news or general stage info.
Hatch may be developing some annoying habits, but at least he comes to the commentary box with all the news of the day.
It’s just confirmation for many of us that Kirby barely pays lip service to preparation.
Why bother if you have no intention of using it?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Surprised he didn't think it was Steve McQueen - I couldn't blame him for that the name isn't immediately visible and he gets no help from Sean.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
You could say this about most of Kirby's commentary.rick_chasey said:
We worked it out tbf.DeVlaeminck said:How was he meant to be ready for it ? Unless there is some briefing he failed to attend or memo he couldn't be bothered to read?
He said in the commentary he looked in the notes (Jonno's notes?) and there was nothing there. Also as it panned across initially it was just the face so he was already talking about it before it became obvious it was in memory of someone.
Think the bar for the tv commentator is higher than the people sitting on their sofa.0 -
Commentators literally get a book with this stuff in. With a cue as to when the broadcast is going to cut to a shot of a particular chateau/mountain/memorial.
This is a weird hill to die on DV. You can literally hear him fumbling through it on the broadcast as something in his tiny tiny brain realises he done fucked upWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver1 -
I'd draw a distinction between style and competence.
Kirby is not competent.2 -
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In which case can i reiterate, apart from this one issue*, what a bang up job Eurosport and GCN have done with UK cycling coverage. Although please could we leave Robbie on the call for sprint stages rather have him leave for the breakaway.rick_chasey said:
I'll happily wait the extra few minutes for the post match analysis to have him call the thing so well live.
*Thankfully the message seems to be getting through as Kirby is being relegated to the early stage/shit small racesWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver said:
Commentators literally get a book with this stuff in. With a cue as to when the broadcast is going to cut to a shot of a particular chateau/mountain/memorial.
This is a weird hill to die on DV. You can literally hear him fumbling through it on the broadcast as something in his tiny tiny brain realises he done fucked up
I'm not dying on a hill I just think it's not a big deal. When CAS died he posted a tribute on his personal twitter - that seems more meaningful to me than him not recognising a picture painted on some grass.
I said unless if he's not read a memo or whatever then he does deserve some criticism for that - I don't know if that was covered in a book - but then none of us do.
He refers to looking at Jonno's notes so that is presumably what he is fumbling through.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
I think Dan Lloyd's tweet was more to do with the truck loads of online abuse that gets thrown at Orla Chennaoui.rick_chasey said:1 -
Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.
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I've not checked, but I'd assume a forum thread with 1600 posts shows up when you Google "Carlton Kirby" and Carlton almost certainly Googles his own name (as Dan Lloyd does (and probably most of the rest of the GCN team))rick_chasey said:
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I think this is the precisely the reason for the criticismrick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
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That's the toxicity of Twitter for you.rick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.
They showed the behind the scenes shots of the breakaway gang during the final sprint won By Groenewegen on Sunday.
McEwan, Lloyd and Blythe were all stood up, staring at the screen, living every pedal stroke.
Orla was sat down, with her back to the screen, her head buried in her phone, composing her latest text.
I bet that got the odd thermonuclear outburts!
But the fact remains that unlike Kirby, Orla is extremely good at her job.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
What is interesting in Belgium is the post-race coverage is pretty much exclusively rider interviews with a pundit merely filling air time between interviews. Not much analysis. Certainly no screens. But so many interviews. You get a lot of perspectives in a short space.0
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Yeah, and half of it for what she's wearing - Blythe doesn't get nearly the same.blazing_saddles said:
That's the toxicity of Twitter for you.rick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.
They showed the behind the scenes shots of the breakaway gang during the final sprint won By Groenewegen on Sunday.
McEwan, Lloyd and Blythe were all stood up, staring at the screen, living every pedal stroke.
Orla was sat down, with her back to the screen, her head buried in her phone, composing her latest text.
I bet that got the odd thermonuclear outburts!
But the fact remains that unlike Kirby, Orla is extremely good at her job.
I didn't see the abuse but she made a post the other week about criticism of her parenting, apparently she got loads for being in the UK for the Giro while her kids were in Amsterdam (where she lives). None for Robbie McEwen though, whose kids were in Australia...
Big difference IMO between that and the fact that Kirby doesn't know what he's talking about.1 -
I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.10
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Women sports presenters and pundits always get abuse - the same is true in football.
If course it's also legitimate to think they are just not very good - I mean individually not en masse.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Perfectly put LR. She's the consummate professional, asks the right questions of the pundits and keeps the conversation flowing. She really is a credit to ES / GCNScott Foil RC
Scott Addict RC
Trek Emonda0 -
Exactly.Lanterne_Rogue said:I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.
It's not her job to dissect the sprint, firstly it's McEwan's, then Blythe's.
She's the conductor, they are the orchestra!
(Kirby's the organ grinder's naughty monkey.
) "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
There's a lot of discussion on here about what men are wearing, it just doesn't get the same reaction. Socks, shoes and shorts being major focal points. I don't understand the obsession, but it attracts some strong views.bobmcstuff said:
Yeah, and half of it for what she's wearing - Blythe doesn't get nearly the same.blazing_saddles said:
That's the toxicity of Twitter for you.rick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.
They showed the behind the scenes shots of the breakaway gang during the final sprint won By Groenewegen on Sunday.
McEwan, Lloyd and Blythe were all stood up, staring at the screen, living every pedal stroke.
Orla was sat down, with her back to the screen, her head buried in her phone, composing her latest text.
I bet that got the odd thermonuclear outburts!
But the fact remains that unlike Kirby, Orla is extremely good at her job.
I didn't see the abuse but she made a post the other week about criticism of her parenting, apparently she got loads for being in the UK for the Giro while her kids were in Amsterdam (where she lives). None for Robbie McEwen though, whose kids were in Australia...
Big difference IMO between that and the fact that Kirby doesn't know what he's talking about.0 -
Can't believe it would be anything other than this - she knows the she's going to be on camera in a few minutes and have to quickly sum up the day's events and what they'll be discussing. She effectively has to sell the Breakaway showLanterne_Rogue said:I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.
Getting that right first time every time isn't luck, it takes knowledge, talent and hard work0 -
This is fair.TheBigBean said:
There's a lot of discussion on here about what men are wearing, it just doesn't get the same reaction. Socks, shoes and shorts being major focal points. I don't understand the obsession, but it attracts some strong views.bobmcstuff said:
Yeah, and half of it for what she's wearing - Blythe doesn't get nearly the same.blazing_saddles said:
That's the toxicity of Twitter for you.rick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.
They showed the behind the scenes shots of the breakaway gang during the final sprint won By Groenewegen on Sunday.
McEwan, Lloyd and Blythe were all stood up, staring at the screen, living every pedal stroke.
Orla was sat down, with her back to the screen, her head buried in her phone, composing her latest text.
I bet that got the odd thermonuclear outburts!
But the fact remains that unlike Kirby, Orla is extremely good at her job.
I didn't see the abuse but she made a post the other week about criticism of her parenting, apparently she got loads for being in the UK for the Giro while her kids were in Amsterdam (where she lives). None for Robbie McEwen though, whose kids were in Australia...
Big difference IMO between that and the fact that Kirby doesn't know what he's talking about.
Adam Blythe's shirts get by far the most critical comment on here, but he seems to be considered fair game.
I happened to mention Orla's opening day, bright yellow eye shadow for being a bit extreme, only for the head of the woke police to immediately jump upon my observation.
I never normally comment, but it was even more garish than Mr Blythe's "individual" attire."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
More because she's a woman who is happy looking like a woman whilst being good. I think a fair bit of the stick comes from other women (I don't do Twitter but follow her on Instagram and she makes references to people giving her stick about leaving her kids for weeks to work as well as showing "too much flesh"). Fortunately she is more than capable of making her own decisions and putting those people firmly in their place.rick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.0 -
blazing_saddles said:
This is fair.TheBigBean said:
There's a lot of discussion on here about what men are wearing, it just doesn't get the same reaction. Socks, shoes and shorts being major focal points. I don't understand the obsession, but it attracts some strong views.bobmcstuff said:
Yeah, and half of it for what she's wearing - Blythe doesn't get nearly the same.blazing_saddles said:
That's the toxicity of Twitter for you.rick_chasey said:Presumably because she’s a woman and good? Ffs.
Tbf cycling has some really good fronts at the moment with Imlach and Chennaoui.
I really do avoid Eurosport wherever possible to avoid Carlton. Sounds like im missing out but I just can’t do Carlton for a minute.
They showed the behind the scenes shots of the breakaway gang during the final sprint won By Groenewegen on Sunday.
McEwan, Lloyd and Blythe were all stood up, staring at the screen, living every pedal stroke.
Orla was sat down, with her back to the screen, her head buried in her phone, composing her latest text.
I bet that got the odd thermonuclear outburts!
But the fact remains that unlike Kirby, Orla is extremely good at her job.
I didn't see the abuse but she made a post the other week about criticism of her parenting, apparently she got loads for being in the UK for the Giro while her kids were in Amsterdam (where she lives). None for Robbie McEwen though, whose kids were in Australia...
Big difference IMO between that and the fact that Kirby doesn't know what he's talking about.
Adam Blythe's shirts get by far the most critical comment on here, but he seems to be considered fair game.
I happened to mention Orla's opening day, bright yellow eye shadow for being a bit extreme, only for the head of the woke police to immediately jump upon my observation.
I never normally comment, but it was even more garish than Mr Blythe's "individual" attire.
Personally I'm happy to discuss their clothes/makeup whether it's Adam, Orla, Dan or whoever.
It's obvious that Orla, Adam and even Robbie do put a fair bit of thought into their appearance so what's wrong with discussing it - though some on here do seem to think that's not the done thing for some reason.
Similarly if Dan obvious grabs the first GCN branded top he sees why not mention that.
Equally if devotees of ITV want to talk about Imlach's knitted tops why not - fans of his attire should visit the John Smedley factory shop near Cromford (think the village is Lea Bridge but not checked) where they can get some great bargains - some great cycling round there too.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Can we just get one thing straight here? There really isn't any equivalence between criticising men's and women's clothing. Women have their clothing criticised and policed relentlessly, from childhood to old age. Too slutty, too frumpy, too much leg, too much cleavage, too masculine, too conservative, looks like a goer, looks stuck up and frigid .... It's on a completely different level and of a different character (even if it's subtext and not explicit) to what men might face. Men get "banter" about a bright flashy shirt, women get genuinely angry messages about them ruining cycling and only being there as eye-candy/diversity hire.
So have a think before you do it - you might not think you're being too harsh, you might think you're even handed and just treating women as you do men, but you're actually just a tiny drip in a massive deluge.Warning No formatter is installed for the format12 -
Who said anything about criticising? Discussion doesn't have to be criticism - it doesn't have to be banter either or couched in terms of how sexually attractive it makes someone look.
I think it's possible to discuss fashion choices - male or female - without reducing it to that level.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
It is, but it doesn't hurt to take a step back and think about it sometimes. I don't think that noticing Orla's eye makeup was YELLOW crosses that line, fwiw - I can't think of another presenter who changes style so dramatically from day to day and I love that she's able to do that. Not least as it implies that there's people in influential places within Eurosport, or at least the production of cycling coverage, who are encouraging her to crack on with being herself.DeVlaeminck said:Who said anything about criticising? Discussion doesn't have to be criticism - it doesn't have to be banter either or couched in terms of how sexually attractive it makes someone look.
I think it's possible to discuss fashion choices - male or female - without reducing it to that level.3 -
Lanterne_Rogue said:
I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.
I'm not buying that. I haven't seen the clip, but not watching a stage finish is a bit odd if you are about to talk about it. Surely you would need, if not want, to know who won. I can't image Gary Lineker not watching a penalty shoot out.Twitter: @RichN950 -
In the sequence I'm on about - and there's no guarantee it's the same one as Blazing was, nor is there any guarantee that the way it's been cut reflects what was going on in chronological order - she's there checking stuff whilst everyone gets excited, then is shown saying "oh my god!" whilst stood up to watch the screen. I don't think any of us could know what correlates to any of those moments, nor use it to draw the conclusion that she didn't watch the final sprint.RichN95. said:Lanterne_Rogue said:I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.
I'm not buying that. I haven't seen the clip, but not watching a stage finish is a bit odd if you are about to talk about it. Surely you would need, if not want, to know who won. I can't image Gary Lineker not watching a penalty shoot out.
However there was definitely some point where Robbie and Adam looked like they'd overdone the e numbers and Orla was concentrating on getting ready for the show. That's kind of interesting to notice, and part of all their strengths.0
