Wattage Targets

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  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    A lot if people on the watt bike will get their peak by doing it from a slow start, rather than frm 25-30mph...
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  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Imposter wrote:
    Borderland wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I suspect people are talking about 'real road' watts, as not everyone will have a wattbike. As for discrepancies - one is generated on a static indoor bike - the other is generated during a race.

    I meant is there a difference one way or another, I read Joe Friels blog and he pretty said it is anyone's guess, some people fare better indoor some better outdoor.

    Fella - you just got to enter a race and find out for yourself. Seriously. Everything else is just theory.. :wink:

    I'm racing at Hillingdon, 1st June Cat 3/4. I will wear a big dunces hat so people know I am a liability :D
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Borderland wrote:
    I'm racing at Hillingdon, 1st June Cat 3/4. I will wear a big dunces hat so people know I am a liability :D
    I wouldn't worry about the hat - if they're any good they'll have worked it out very quickly (probably when you ask them what wattage they can achieve ;) ) and if they're no good then they'll be as much a liability as you are :D

    Have fun with it :D
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Slowbike wrote:
    Borderland wrote:
    I'm racing at Hillingdon, 1st June Cat 3/4. I will wear a big dunces hat so people know I am a liability :D
    I wouldn't worry about the hat - if they're any good they'll have worked it out very quickly (probably when you ask them what wattage they can achieve ;) ) and if they're no good then they'll be as much a liability as you are :D

    Have fun with it :D

    Pahahah okay will do cheers :P
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Have you ever ridden in a group at speed before?
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    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    edited May 2014
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Have you ever ridden in a group at speed before?

    pah - detail. Don't be getting all practical now... ;)
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Imposter wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Have you ever ridden in a group at speed before?

    pah - detail.. ;)

    Won't matter - he'll blow them away with his massive wattage ;) Although I'm not quite sure how quick a wattbike will be - even if you put the castors down ... :D
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Slowbike wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Have you ever ridden in a group at speed before?

    pah - detail.. ;)

    Won't matter - he'll blow them away with his massive wattage ;) Although I'm not quite sure how quick a wattbike will be - even if you put the castors down ... :D

    50mm carbon castors - no worries.. ;)
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Yeh yeh alright chaps simmer down :P No not really ridden at pack speed, I rode an etape unfit it doesn't compare to the video I have seen of Hillingdon as both the speed and road width were completely different.
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • lc1981
    lc1981 Posts: 820
    Perhaps try to do a few chaingangs before you turn up to race on 1 June, to get some experience riding fast in a group?
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    lc1981 wrote:
    Perhaps try to do a few chaingangs before you turn up to race on 1 June, to get some experience riding fast in a group?

    Am out and about the next couple of weekends otherwise I would do, hopefully will just keep far forward and out of trouble. If it's wet I may just take it as a learning experience and see if I can practice a bunch sprint. Not really sure what my max watts are, think they should be around 1400 which probably isn't enough to be a contender at my weight but always worth a try :)
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Borderland wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    Perhaps try to do a few chaingangs before you turn up to race on 1 June, to get some experience riding fast in a group?

    Am out and about the next couple of weekends otherwise I would do, hopefully will just keep far forward and out of trouble. If it's wet I may just take it as a learning experience and see if I can practice a bunch sprint. Not really sure what my max watts are, think they should be around 1400 which probably isn't enough to be a contender at my weight but always worth a try :)

    You can do it in the evening too - why do you think it's 1400? And that's way more than enough to compete... I've seen plenty of files with people almost your weight getting top 5 at Hillingdon with half those peak watts in the sprint. Watts don't matter much, it's a standing 200m on the track.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Ok, thanks for the replies, maybe I need to phrase the question better:

    Has anyone here won a sprint at 2/3/4 cat level? If so, how much power/kg did they need in the last 30 s?


    I am well aware than there is a bunch of other stuff get right before that 30 s makes any difference at all, I am just looking for some example numbers (purely out of INTEREST).

    I did 1000w for 30 secs and came 2nd.
    I've also done 700 for 30 secs and won.

    There you go, what does that tell you? Nothing.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    jibberjim wrote:
    Borderland wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    Perhaps try to do a few chaingangs before you turn up to race on 1 June, to get some experience riding fast in a group?

    Am out and about the next couple of weekends otherwise I would do, hopefully will just keep far forward and out of trouble. If it's wet I may just take it as a learning experience and see if I can practice a bunch sprint. Not really sure what my max watts are, think they should be around 1400 which probably isn't enough to be a contender at my weight but always worth a try :)

    You can do it in the evening too - why do you think it's 1400? And that's way more than enough to compete... I've seen plenty of files with people almost your weight getting top 5 at Hillingdon with half those peak watts in the sprint. Watts don't matter much, it's a standing 200m on the track.

    When I gear up for a Strava segment I hit around 1200 max but w/o going balls to the wall. I could go in the evening but frankly after a long day I'm not massively keen.
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Borderland wrote:
    lc1981 wrote:
    Perhaps try to do a few chaingangs before you turn up to race on 1 June, to get some experience riding fast in a group?

    Am out and about the next couple of weekends otherwise I would do, hopefully will just keep far forward and out of trouble. If it's wet I may just take it as a learning experience and see if I can practice a bunch sprint. Not really sure what my max watts are, think they should be around 1400 which probably isn't enough to be a contender at my weight but always worth a try :)
    I'm not sure you have quite grasped why your lack of experience might be a concern. There are lots of threads on here full of advice on how to approach your first race, and plenty more about the problems caused by overconfident fit riders with no experience, especially at Hillingdon. If you haven't the time or inclination to actually gain some experience in the real world, at least have a read.
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    I've literally said right there I would if I had the time, and once I have a few weekends spare I will - no need to get arsey. I am already reading a thread on Hillingdon.
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Nothing personal Borderland - I just though your response that you would stay up front and out of trouble was missing the point. Ideally you would be gaining some skills before doing your first race - I think most of the organisers and regulars at Hillingdon would agree with this as it seems to be a big problem there. There are plenty of people who would like to see those in your situation not allowed to ride until you had done so. I am not one of them.

    If you genuinely don't have time, fair enough. Most people coming into a new sport would be thinking more than two weeks ahead! Good luck.
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,073
    okgo wrote:

    I did 1000w for 30 secs and came 2nd.
    I've also done 700 for 30 secs and won.

    There you go, what does that tell you? Nothing.


    It tells me half of what I wanted to know, what's your weight?
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Will you be checking people's weights on the start line? I think the point that okgo is trying to make is that test numbers don't really count for much at the end of a race. All that matters is what you have left in the tank - and specifically, having slightly more left in the tank than the other guys.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Imposter wrote:
    and specifically, having slightly more left in the tank than the other guys.
    and using it all - running out on the line - not a moment sooner or later ...
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,073
    Imposter wrote:
    Will you be checking people's weights on the start line? I think the point that okgo is trying to make is that test numbers don't really count for much at the end of a race. All that matters is what you have left in the tank - and specifically, having slightly more left in the tank than the other guys.


    I think it tells you a lot. If he is winning a bike race with x power / weight and I am putting out double and still not winning then I need to look at the other things like positioning, technique etc...

    If I am putting out a tiny fraction of what he is then I know that even with the best positioning I am not going to win.

    I don't mean to sound aresey with this but as everyone on this thread keeps saying the figures aren't the be all and end all, but they can give an indication of areas you need to improve on. Also, as I mentioned before, this is out of interest. If I had asked what FTP does it take to be competitive at the tour de france would you guys all have told me to go and try it and see for myself? Or, if you had know, would you have given some known FTP figures for some previous winners? To iterate this point further, I am not even racing at the moment.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Will you be checking people's weights on the start line? I think the point that okgo is trying to make is that test numbers don't really count for much at the end of a race. All that matters is what you have left in the tank - and specifically, having slightly more left in the tank than the other guys.


    I think it tells you a lot. If he is winning a bike race with x power / weight and I am putting out double and still not winning then I need to look at the other things like positioning, technique etc...

    If I am putting out a tiny fraction of what he is then I know that even with the best positioning I am not going to win.
    I don't race either - however, you can read enough into the information given ...

    If you can put out somewhere in the region of 700-1000watts or more in a sprint then you're in with a shot.

    If you can only put out 350w then you need to do some training ...

    There are lots of things in races that will sap your strength - climbs, attacks, corners, surges - alternatively, you could put an attack in early on and TT your way around the circuit (perhaps with 1 or 2 others) and if the main group don't respond you could still win despite not being a sprinter.
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,073
    Slowbike wrote:
    I don't race either - however, you can read enough into the information given ...

    If you can put out somewhere in the region of 700-1000watts or more in a sprint then you're in with a shot.

    If you can only put out 350w then you need to do some training ...

    There are lots of things in races that will sap your strength - climbs, attacks, corners, surges - alternatively, you could put an attack in early on and TT your way around the circuit (perhaps with 1 or 2 others) and if the main group don't respond you could still win despite not being a sprinter.

    This was the information that I wanted...so I had to ask to get it...and OkGo provided (some), obviously the more information you have the more you can gain from it.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Maybe in certain things you can gain a bit. But it's still too vague.

    76-77kg most of the time.

    I've put out almost my best max watts at the end of races so even that isn't a hard and fast rule for everyone.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Have read a load of threads etc about racing and Hillingdon specifically. If the race is one hour presumably there is no set number of laps? Just wondering how people time their moves etc. ie you can't really wait until penultimate lap as you don't know when it is....
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    They are usually 1hr + 5 laps, so after an hour they show lap boards counting down the last 5 laps.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Tom Dean wrote:
    Good luck.

    Yes to everyone involved in the race he's in.
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    DavidJB wrote:
    Tom Dean wrote:
    Good luck.

    Yes to everyone involved in the race he's in.

    Nice of you to think so highly of me :)
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    For those posters who have never raced who are musing if they are sprinters or not, you will find out in race #1 if you are. :wink:

    Basically it goes like this in a Hillingdon 4th cat race:
    90% think they can win the race from a bunch sprint (10% just want to get round)
    75% are actually there in the bunch at the finish to sprint
    30% are actually positioned properly to sprint
    10% can actually sprint a bit but not well enough, as evidenced by the excuses of being boxed in, etc. afterwards
    2% can actually sprint for real and they will come past you like a car accelerating and distance the rest of the pack by several bike lengths to win easily.

    If you're the 2%, consider yourself a sprinter.
    If you're the 10%, then work on positioning and you might win if nobody from the 2% is there at the next race.
    If you're the 30-75%, think about getting into a break instead as you'll never win from a bunch sprint. Or try a different circuit that suits your riding strengths better.
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    maryka wrote:
    For those posters who have never raced who are musing if they are sprinters or not, you will find out in race #1 if you are. :wink:
    Some of us don't need to race to know we're not sprinters ... :D

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