Wattage Targets

Borderland

Haha cheers mate! Decent squat and DL figures there, kept them up?

okgo

Nope, not touched a weight in a fair time now, still carry a lot of the muscle I used to have, annoying!

bigmat

okgo wrote:

ah ok, as long as it tallys up with a few other peoples own powermeters it should be alright. Some of them have been very poor though considering the cost.

doesn't matter how strong your legs are, but I'm sure you know that

We've got two at our gym, the Pro one seems pretty accurate (my mate uses it and says the figures are consistent with his power meter), the Trainer one seems to record lower numbers (unless I just happen to be on a bad day every time I use it!)

Borderland

okgo wrote:

Nope, not touched a weight in a fair time now, still carry a lot of the muscle I used to have, annoying!

Still as far as I've read you've knocked off 20kg! That's outrageous! I'll be ecstatic if I get to 90 That Pete Hudson bloke you mention early on I rowed with at Durham Uni, small world!

Borderland

BigMat wrote:

okgo wrote:

ah ok, as long as it tallys up with a few other peoples own powermeters it should be alright. Some of them have been very poor though considering the cost.

doesn't matter how strong your legs are, but I'm sure you know that

We've got two at our gym, the Pro one seems pretty accurate (my mate uses it and says the figures are consistent with his power meter), the Trainer one seems to record lower numbers (unless I just happen to be on a bad day every time I use it!)

We've got a pro, we had a trainer briefly as they delivered the wrong bike, but honestly I didn't notice much difference except for the fact the pro seems to have harder "gearing" if you can call it that.

bigmat

Yeah, that seems to be the only difference and you can crank up the air resistance on the Trainer so its more or less the same as the Pro, but I always find that I'm having to work far harder to get the same power output on that one compared to the Pro. I have found that if I start on the Trainer then move across to the Pro I can suddenly add about 50W for no extra effort. Fortunately my mate with a power meter has confirmed the Pro is pretty accurate, so I'm fairly sure the Trainer is undermeasuring rather than the other way round. On the plus side, I was on the Trainer when I did my peak power test (1850 or thereabouts) so maybe I'll be able to top 2000 if I ever give it another go.

okgo

1850 peak watts? lol, that one is broken then.

Griepel would rarely hit that

bigmat

Who knows - I'm a fair bit bigger than Greipel and this was in a gym after a gentle warm up as opposed to after racing 200km out on the road. Maybe one day I'll borrow a bike with a power meter and see what I can hit out on the road which is a bit more of a useful indication.

okgo

Nobody I know has hit even 1700 let alone 1800. You may be heavier and taller but you don't have legs like he does, he looks about as much like a fast twitch power sprinter as you can get!

bigmat

I've got legs like Chris Hoy! I come into my own on static bikes, as soon as power to weight is a factor I'm out the back. But yeah, a 6 second test (or whatever it is) on a WattBike probably not that accurate.

ugo.santalucia

Ah, you boys being all machos (nachos?!?) with your Watt toys...

I'll take you both for a sprint down Memory Lane... see you there...

Grill

I once hit 700 watts for a couple seconds. What do I win?

okgo

A Sky Go Race probably

Grill

okgo wrote:

A Sky Go Race probably

I thought I might have a shot at a U10...

Pross

BigMat wrote:

Yeah, that seems to be the only difference and you can crank up the air resistance on the Trainer so its more or less the same as the Pro, but I always find that I'm having to work far harder to get the same power output on that one compared to the Pro. I have found that if I start on the Trainer then move across to the Pro I can suddenly add about 50W for no extra effort. Fortunately my mate with a power meter has confirmed the Pro is pretty accurate, so I'm fairly sure the Trainer is undermeasuring rather than the other way round. On the plus side, I was on the Trainer when I did my peak power test (1850 or thereabouts) so maybe I'll be able to top 2000 if I ever give it another go.

If the readings are accurate then you really ought to consider getting to the velodrome - that's pushing on elite level sprinter power outputs! We had a watt bike at our cycling festival last summer and only one person got over 1000w (albeit in street clothes). I know sheer weight can count for a lot in such a short blast but 1850 is still seriously high.

okgo

Put it this way, if it was correct you'd be winning at Hog Hill/hillingdon/cyclopark in the sprints every week and not just at 3/4 level, that sprint would beat any other of the decent sprinters that race those circuits at elite level, I know you have won a couple, but having a sprint like that is going to be so noticeable it would be laughable how much you would win by in nearly any sprint you contested - and it isn't like you don't have the engine to stick in a fast crit either.

Look at people you know who win bunch kicks, very rarely will any of them be anywhere near 1500-1600 .

UNLESS this is just one of those odd times where its purely standing start peak (useless number I reckon for bunch racing as you'll always be moving when you sprint) as I know that does throw out some crazy numbers for a millisecond...

bigmat

Pross wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Yeah, that seems to be the only difference and you can crank up the air resistance on the Trainer so its more or less the same as the Pro, but I always find that I'm having to work far harder to get the same power output on that one compared to the Pro. I have found that if I start on the Trainer then move across to the Pro I can suddenly add about 50W for no extra effort. Fortunately my mate with a power meter has confirmed the Pro is pretty accurate, so I'm fairly sure the Trainer is undermeasuring rather than the other way round. On the plus side, I was on the Trainer when I did my peak power test (1850 or thereabouts) so maybe I'll be able to top 2000 if I ever give it another go.

If the readings are accurate then you really ought to consider getting to the velodrome - that's pushing on elite level sprinter power outputs! We had a watt bike at our cycling festival last summer and only one person got over 1000w (albeit in street clothes). I know sheer weight can count for a lot in such a short blast but 1850 is still seriously high.

Its on my list - in fact I'm likely riding Herne Hill tonight (although on a road bike). I'm too old to make any real impact, but would still like to compete on the track this season and see how I get on.

bigmat

okgo wrote:

Put it this way, if it was correct you'd be winning at Hog Hill/hillingdon/cyclopark in the sprints every week and not just at 3/4 level, that sprint would beat any other of the decent sprinters that race those circuits at elite level, I know you have won a couple, but having a sprint like that is going to be so noticeable it would be laughable how much you would win by in nearly any sprint you contested - and it isn't like you don't have the engine to stick in a fast crit either.

Look at people you know who win bunch kicks, very rarely will any of them be anywhere near 1500-1600 .

UNLESS this is just one of those odd times where its purely standing start peak (useless number I reckon for bunch racing as you'll always be moving when you sprint) as I know that does throw out some crazy numbers for a millisecond...

Pretty much from a standing start peak - we had a challenge at our gym to see who could record highest peak power output. Involved being at a certain resistance level (6 I think) and staying seated. I had to use straps through velcro on my shoes as I kept ripping my feet out of the SPD cleats. That power came at the end of a 45 minute session (I was slowing down every few minutes and then having another burst). All ridiculously artificial and not even sure its what you should refer to as "peak power" although I wouldn't know what else to call it. Still enough to make me think track could be fun.

I can bang out 1000W pretty easily and usually at the end of a series of tough intervals (I like to see what I can do when I'm fooked rather than fresh). Again, can't say for sure how that translates to the road as all my power readings are on the Watt Bike.

okgo

Track is fun, I had my first go at Herne the other day

maryka

Borderland wrote:

The SuperSix is getting a spa treatment after several commuter crashes (a nod to my bike handling)

This is telling. If you want to compete at any races above 3rd cat, you need to be a pretty decent bike handler. Descents and corners and bends will either catch you out and see you gapped because you can't handle your bike at speed or in close quarters, or you will cause crashes and be out with injury (hopefully not taking others with you).

It's all fine and well to be a strong rider with big numbers but you need to be safe in the bunch and reliable, not a poor bike handler. If that's not you, definitely look into TTing where being a crap handler is less of a liability.

Pross

maryka wrote:

Borderland wrote:

The SuperSix is getting a spa treatment after several commuter crashes (a nod to my bike handling)

This is telling. If you want to compete at any races above 3rd cat, you need to be a pretty decent bike handler. Descents and corners and bends will either catch you out and see you gapped because you can't handle your bike at speed or in close quarters, or you will cause crashes and be out with injury (hopefully not taking others with you).

It's all fine and well to be a strong rider with big numbers but you need to be safe in the bunch and reliable, not a poor bike handler. If that's not you, definitely look into TTing where being a crap handler is less of a liability.

Ideally you want to be a good (or at least safe and confident) bike handler to take part in any race. It's unfair that us poor 4th cats have to put up with bad bike handling just because we aren't good enough to get any points

Pross

BigMat wrote:

okgo wrote:

Put it this way, if it was correct you'd be winning at Hog Hill/hillingdon/cyclopark in the sprints every week and not just at 3/4 level, that sprint would beat any other of the decent sprinters that race those circuits at elite level, I know you have won a couple, but having a sprint like that is going to be so noticeable it would be laughable how much you would win by in nearly any sprint you contested - and it isn't like you don't have the engine to stick in a fast crit either.

Look at people you know who win bunch kicks, very rarely will any of them be anywhere near 1500-1600 .

UNLESS this is just one of those odd times where its purely standing start peak (useless number I reckon for bunch racing as you'll always be moving when you sprint) as I know that does throw out some crazy numbers for a millisecond...

Pretty much from a standing start peak - we had a challenge at our gym to see who could record highest peak power output. Involved being at a certain resistance level (6 I think) and staying seated. I had to use straps through velcro on my shoes as I kept ripping my feet out of the SPD cleats. That power came at the end of a 45 minute session (I was slowing down every few minutes and then having another burst). All ridiculously artificial and not even sure its what you should refer to as "peak power" although I wouldn't know what else to call it. Still enough to make me think track could be fun.

I can bang out 1000W pretty easily and usually at the end of a series of tough intervals (I like to see what I can do when I'm fooked rather than fresh). Again, can't say for sure how that translates to the road as all my power readings are on the Watt Bike.

Yep, the peak power tests I've seen done on a watt bike are 6 seconds seated from a stationary start. Apparently the peak is usually hit within the first couple of pedal revs. It is a pretty meaningless test though and bulk can play a large role in the result. Testing peak after some hard intervals is probably much more meaningful, 1000w when knackered seems pretty good though.

ongej

Pross wrote:

Ideally you want to be a good (or at least safe and confident) bike handler to take part in any race. It's unfair that us poor 4th cats have to put up with bad bike handling just because we aren't good enough to get any points

True, unfortunately, I think for many, to become a good bike handler in a race requires one to race. Safety and confidence comes with experience as well. But no amount of social club riding will prepare a person for a course like Hillingdon, with a field of 40-50 riders riding in close proximity whilst bombing down corners at 27mph. I don't even think a chaingang will prepare a person for that kind of conditions either... Yes, you can ride fast, hold a single file line at fast speeds, maybe even corner if the course is right.. but its 6-10 riders in a chaingang, not 40 racers. And certainly no club riding, chaingang or not can "train bike handling" during the sharp end of the race and (often) resulting bunch sprint.
We all have to start somewhere, here its 4th Cat... but I agree, the need to place or win to progress puts more danger, unlike the US where 5th cats only need to participate enough races before upgrading to 4th cat...

philbar72

Good and safe bike handling should be mandatory as a racer, the amount of wobblers i've seen in the few races i've been involved with, and they can be spotted a mile off, and are always the ones going down in a crash or causing accidents.

It happens at all racetracks and with people making an easy - ish jump to cat 3, that doesn't mean they aren't dodgepot. take for example 2 races on the same day at longcross. the track is vast, really wide. yet in both races the pack was decimated by a wobbler.

bigmat

To be fair anyone can crash - I've seen very good riders overcook corners when really going for it. You see crashes at all levels of racing, its just an unfortunate part of it. Saying that, my last circuit race at 3rd cat (which was a 3/4) was enough to put me off racing at that level for life!

Borderland

It was sort of tongue in cheek, as a nod to earlier comments, my bike handling is not shit, I have done the etape which was busy enough. Crash 1 was coming off Tourmalet, in the wet, in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCN3uuVnois and riding over a cattle grid on a corner. I doubt I was the only one! Also in the wet in London on road paint on a roundabout and when a commuter stepped out in front of me at 35 km/h with one arm indicating and the other on the front brake.... Cue concussion. But I appreciate I will have to race to properly develop my handling of course.

Southgate

Borderland wrote:

It was sort of tongue in cheek, as a nod to earlier comments, my bike handling is not shoot, I have done the etape which was busy enough. Crash 1 was coming off Tourmalet, in the wet, in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCN3uuVnois and riding over a cattle grid on a corner. I doubt I was the only one! Also in the wet in London on road paint on a roundabout and when a commuter stepped out in front of me at 35 km/h with one arm indicating and the other on the front brake.... Cue concussion. But I appreciate I will have to race to properly develop my handling of course.

Gawd, that 2012 Etape (Act 2) brings back memories; mainly cold, wet and scary ones. Cornering on cowshit with five yards visibility was something I hadn't practiced on Sunday club runs.

I got pretty bad hypothermia but managed to get round after tipping the stinking rubbish out of a bin liner, and turning it into an improvised gillet by making holes for my arms and head and climbing inside. I may well have been the smelliest rider ever to descend the Tourmalet, but now when I say "HTFU" I can back it up with a hard-to-beat badass story!

DavidJB

Southgate wrote:

Borderland wrote:

It was sort of tongue in cheek, as a nod to earlier comments, my bike handling is not shoot, I have done the etape which was busy enough. Crash 1 was coming off Tourmalet, in the wet, in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCN3uuVnois and riding over a cattle grid on a corner. I doubt I was the only one! Also in the wet in London on road paint on a roundabout and when a commuter stepped out in front of me at 35 km/h with one arm indicating and the other on the front brake.... Cue concussion. But I appreciate I will have to race to properly develop my handling of course.

Gawd, that 2012 Etape (Act 2) brings back memories; mainly cold, wet and scary ones. Cornering on cowshit with five yards visibility was something I hadn't practiced on Sunday club runs.

I got pretty bad hypothermia but managed to get round after tipping the stinking rubbish out of a bin liner, and turning it into an improvised gillet by making holes for my arms and head and climbing inside. I may well have been the smelliest rider ever to descend the Tourmalet, but now when I say "HTFU" I can back it up with a hard-to-beat badass story!

This is what cycling's all about...too many "cycle golfer's" these days cry on facebook when they get dropped on club runs rather than HTFU and coming back next week to ride harder. The sport has attracted a bunch of wimps and posers! Kudos sir.

Borderland

Not often one for the 'just finishing is an achievement' mantra, but with 50% drop-out it was one of those days. Freezing cold, dangerous descending and 4 challenging climbs to boot. Made me pay for not training!

Borderland

For anyone interested, the watt bike bust and I didn't get my Super6 back until the week of the Ironman, hit 180km in 6 hours 6 minutes. Did my first proper 3-lapper in 56:48. As for the watt bike, it was back in business last week but I had a bit of a rest up as my body was fairly broken. Have lost about 9.5kg since New Year so am at 94kg now and 380w for the 20min test giving me a w/kg of 4.04 (indoors of course)! Definitely plenty of weight left to shift and some more watts to squeeze out so bombs away. Anyone done one of these VO2 triathlons at Eton Dorney?