Wattage Targets

bigmat

400w or thereabouts for first 20 of a 2 x 20 today - is it 10% off for a rough and ready FTP calculation? Hope so as that puts me at around 4.5w/kg FTP (subject to wattbike error).

okgo

5-10 is common yeh.

Good going that.

Borderland

How was the 2nd 20 BigMat? Any tips for Watt Bike training sessions? At the moment I was just planning on one 20 a week to see how I am progressing but some cycling specific training is definitely needed.

bigmat

389W so a bit less than I thought. Oh well. Second 20 I aimed for 85% of FTP, probably ended up a bit down - I basically got bored so did a few bursts in time with the music I was listening to, finished strongly though (just under 1,000W for the sprint).

I found the time crunched cyclist workouts pretty good, have some sufferfest videos I have never got round to using. Basically aiming to focus on crit training for the next few months so need to come up with something for that. I guess lots of 2x20 to raise FTP with some over threshold power interval sessions mixed in.

Borderland

Ok thanks, think weights make much difference? Or tabata style sessions - 20 secs flat out, 10 secs rest x 8 - repeat all 4 times? Just one set of those kills me tbh!

Tom Dean

BigMat wrote:

389W so a bit less than I thought. Oh well. Second 20 I aimed for 85% of FTP, probably ended up a bit down - I basically got bored so did a few bursts in time with the music I was listening to, finished strongly though (just under 1,000W for the sprint).

Are you saying that 389W is less than 85% of your FTP?

bigmat

Tom Dean wrote:

BigMat wrote:

389W so a bit less than I thought. Oh well. Second 20 I aimed for 85% of FTP, probably ended up a bit down - I basically got bored so did a few bursts in time with the music I was listening to, finished strongly though (just under 1,000W for the sprint).

Are you saying that 389W is less than 85% of your FTP?

well that would be nice! Sadly, what I meant was my FTP "test" result was a bit lower than I had thought at 389w (giving FTP of between 350 and 370w - say 360w as that keeps me at FTP 4.5w/kg). 2nd 20 was average 323w so surprisingly a fair bit higher than 85% FTP.

Tom Dean

Ah I see. Big numbers nonetheless.
I'm confused as to when you did 400W though?

If you can follow up your test with another 20 minute interval (including bursts and a sprint!), you're probably not trying hard enough.

bigmat

Tom Dean wrote:

Ah I see. Big numbers nonetheless.
I'm confused as to when you did 400W though?

If you can follow up your test with another 20 minute interval (including bursts and a sprint!), you're probably not trying hard enough.

Link here:

http://app.strava.com/activities/135564278

Probably wasn't at 100% I guess, was a quick "squeeze it in at lunchtime" effort! The 400w was just an estimate / target as I just did 20mins after a 5 minute warm up so I had no data in front of me at the time other than a current power reading and an innccurate average including the warm up.

Borderland

Mat is this on the road or a watt bike? And how can I check if the wattbike is calibrated. When I did my first test back I did 20min, 380watt, 500cal, 100rpm, 46.8kmh, 15.61km, 4.04w/kg - do those numbers stack up?

bigmat

I was on the wattbike. Your figures look about right - average speed / distance similar to mine for similar watts. Can't comment on cadence as can vary without necessarily affecting power. Not interested in calories!

okgo

How much fitter do you think you are now than previous years when you have ridden the RP time trials??

Borderland

Haha I'm not particularly either, pretty much just eat what I fancy, only thing I cut out was coca cola! Unlimited supply at work was dangerous! As far as I can work out doing the same speed at a higher cadence gives higher watts, but frankly I just try and stick around 100 to keep the lactic at bay.

bigmat

okgo wrote:

How much fitter do you think you are now than previous years when you have ridden the RP time trials??

Honestly no idea. Finished my training block then did Flanders (felt good although distance was tough) then Les Ingman (hard as hell and finished a lap down). Neither really a good fit for the training I'd been doing which probably more suited to shorter races. Been feeling fooked since Les Ingman really tired and breathing issues due to pollen etc but feeling better this week so back training as of yesterday. Will hopefully hit RP next week, will be interested to see how I compare to previous years.

Borderland

93kg today and this week's 20min was 385watt, 515cal, 100rpm, 47.0kmh, 15.61km, 4.14watt/kg - baby steps!

okgo

BigMat wrote:

okgo wrote:

How much fitter do you think you are now than previous years when you have ridden the RP time trials??

Honestly no idea. Finished my training block then did Flanders (felt good although distance was tough) then Les Ingman (hard as hell and finished a lap down). Neither really a good fit for the training I'd been doing which probably more suited to shorter races. Been feeling fooked since Les Ingman really tired and breathing issues due to pollen etc but feeling better this week so back training as of yesterday. Will hopefully hit RP next week, will be interested to see how I compare to previous years.

I think the bike might be reading high perhaps. If you can do those sorts of numbers you should have no issue in the Les really. Also you'd be winning that Richmond Park TT road cat more often than not, I doubt Ian Paine was doing any more than those watts when at his quickest. When I was 1 min faster than you on road bikes I wouldn't have done more than 360w, I tested myself a few weeks prior (353 for 20 mins).

bigmat

okgo wrote:

BigMat wrote:

okgo wrote:

How much fitter do you think you are now than previous years when you have ridden the RP time trials??

Honestly no idea. Finished my training block then did Flanders (felt good although distance was tough) then Les Ingman (hard as hell and finished a lap down). Neither really a good fit for the training I'd been doing which probably more suited to shorter races. Been feeling fooked since Les Ingman really tired and breathing issues due to pollen etc but feeling better this week so back training as of yesterday. Will hopefully hit RP next week, will be interested to see how I compare to previous years.

I think the bike might be reading high perhaps. If you can do those sorts of numbers you should have no issue in the Les really. Also you'd be winning that Richmond Park TT road cat more often than not, I doubt Ian Paine was doing any more than those watts when at his quickest. When I was 1 min faster than you on road bikes I wouldn't have done more than 360w, I tested myself a few weeks prior (353 for 20 mins).

you could be right - was first non commute ride in a couple of weeks and haven't been feeling great, aimed for 400w and found it easier going than I had expected. At least it should be consistent though if I stick with samw wattbike and suggests my FTP has gone up since before Christmas when last tested (was around 325w). Of course i might just have improved massively but haven't really felt it out on the road- issue with Les was really the distance and not eating enough as I bonked badly around the 100km point.

okgo

Yep! A benchmark anyway!

Good luck, I may do one of the Richmond Park events on roadbike again this year (if ankle is better) so we can have another head to head

bigmat

Its a race against yourself, as long as I get a PB I'll be happy (etc etc, gets excuses in early...)

markwb79

Borderland wrote:

93kg today and this week's 20min was 385watt, 515cal, 100rpm, 47.0kmh, 15.61km, 4.14watt/kg - baby steps!

Have you actually raced yet?
Why are you only doing 1 x 20min when its pretty 'standard' to do 2 x 20mins?

Something doesnt sound right to me on the calorie either. That would suggest 1500 calories an hour. Without much checking, that doesnt sound right to me.

jibberjim

Markwb79 wrote:

Why are you only doing 1 x 20min when its pretty 'standard' to do 2 x 20mins?

Does it matter what's 'standard' ? Training isn't about doing what's standard it's about doing what works for you.

Markwb79 wrote:

Something doesnt sound right to me on the calorie either. That would suggest 1500 calories an hour. Without much checking, that doesnt sound right to me.

It's not that high at typical efficiencies, 385watts will require that sort of burn rate, it's a little high perhaps, but not so out of the ordinary. But completely pointless mentioning it, as it's just a guesstimate.

markwb79

jibberjim wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Why are you only doing 1 x 20min when its pretty 'standard' to do 2 x 20mins?

Does it matter what's 'standard' ? Training isn't about doing what's standard it's about doing what works for you.

Change the word 'standard' to proven maybe?

jibberjim

Markwb79 wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Why are you only doing 1 x 20min when its pretty 'standard' to do 2 x 20mins?

Does it matter what's 'standard' ? Training isn't about doing what's standard it's about doing what works for you.

Change the word 'standard' to proven maybe?

there's absolutely nothing proven about 2x20's...

DavidJB

Markwb79 wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Why are you only doing 1 x 20min when its pretty 'standard' to do 2 x 20mins?

Does it matter what's 'standard' ? Training isn't about doing what's standard it's about doing what works for you.

Change the word 'standard' to proven maybe?

I don't do 2x20 and my FTP results are normally pretty much spot on based on further heart rate / power outputs for subsequent training rides.

Borderland

I'm doing 20 minutes because the watt bike is downstairs in my office and I can't be fannying around for an hour at lunch. Allied with my other training it seems to be working as my watts are up 25 since January and my weight down around 11.5kg. Proven or standard I'm not really fussed about, I realise there will be normal tests I was a rower and there were plenty of them, but the 20 minutes I use as an FTP estimate.

Sussed out

What rowing did you do?

lc1981

Markwb79 wrote:

Why are you only doing 1 x 20min when its pretty 'standard' to do 2 x 20mins?

Is there confusion between a 20-minute FTP test and 2x20-minute intervals here? I thought the OP was talking about the former.

Borderland

Sussed out wrote:

What rowing did you do?

I was a decent junior rower. Used to do 2 x 30 minutes, 3 x 6km with 90 second rest rate 18, 3 x 10 minute tests and the usual 2km, 5km, 30min all out tests. I would liken the 20 minute FTP to a 30 minutes at rate 20 in terms of intensity.

milese

With 385 watts in a flat 4th cat race you should be able to solo off the front fairly easily so long as you can get the gap. I doubt many 4th's have FTP's over over 300?

If you have 385 watts with what sounds like very minimal and unfocused training, then I personally think you are gifted and if you sorted your weight out could do very well.

How many hours a week are you riding?

What are your 5 sec, 1 min and 5 min bests?

As said though, this is largely fantasy until you get on the road, but if your watts are high enough, then you can take away change and solo. I've been involved in a couple of races this year when low cat riders have come out of no where and solo'd very long to victory.

Borderland

Milese, I ride 11km to and from work everyday, from Wandsworth up to Marylebone. Other than that I just do whatever I fancy, bit of tennis, running, rugby, weights (mostly core stuff not heavy) including commuting (10 sessions) I total around 13-14 sessions a week. Have lost 12 kilos now since January, could comfortably get down to 85kg with no power loss and I think on a good day 400 watts is achievable so those are my targets for the summer. I haven't tried using the watt bike with cleats yet as ours doesn't have keo clips. I don't do that much mileage but I did an Ironman a few weeks back and my training was exactly as per the above so I'm not sure it's an issue. For the 180km cycle I used Richmond Park which was a mistake as it was ridiculously hard & very monotonous, but allowed me to pace myself and finished that in 6 hours 6 minutes.