Wattage Targets

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  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Get out on the road and all will be revealed I would think.

    But yes, you would do alright at Hillingdon with the numbers if they're real, but I now do wonder about wattbikes.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    How do I go about racing at Hillingdon then?
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    okgo wrote:
    Get out on the road and all will be revealed I would think.

    But yes, you would do alright at Hillingdon with the numbers if they're real, but I now do wonder about wattbikes.

    I've applied for a British Licence, but on the site I can't find anything for Hillingdon except the Ladies' Circuit?
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Borderland wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    Get out on the road and all will be revealed I would think.

    But yes, you would do alright at Hillingdon with the numbers if they're real, but I now do wonder about wattbikes.

    I've applied for a British Licence, but on the site I can't find anything for Hillingdon except the Ladies' Circuit?
    Tuesday evenings, cat 3/4 race is for money not BC points (you will start as a 4th cat and need 12 points to move up a category to 3rd cat). You could also race alternating Wed if you are over 40? (vets only races there, all categories so can be tough).

    Otherwise there are a number of 4th cat and 3/4 races at Hillingdon over the summer on the weekends, just check the race calendar on the BC site, https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... lter_id=21 There are other races too, just use the filters to get what you like -- filter out sportives, filter in the local regions (Central, Eastern, South East), filter by category, etc. Hillingdon falls under Central region, Middlesex, closed circuit.
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • milese
    milese Posts: 1,233
    So your pushing 400 watts with haphazard training. What are your 5 sec, 1 min, 5 min bests?

    You should smash all the lower cat stuff so long as it's flat.

    However my one legged gran could come on a forum and post about her big numbers, or go and buy a power meter that's as accurate as Enrons financial reporting.

    Until you get your hands in the air it's fantasy.
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    I'm with you Milese, happy to post a pic up, those are the numbers. I was a strong rower so I expect the watts, how it translates to the road we shall have to see. Thanks for the feedback maryka, I will try and get down there pronto for a weekend stint and am going to start a bit of interval and weights training to get my watts up a little more until then. Cheers.
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Don't bother with the weights. Just lose weight.

    Good luck at Hillingdon, I expect a win first time out :)
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • milese
    milese Posts: 1,233
    It doesn't bother me whether it's real or not. But for you, if it is, it means that you have the potential for a degree of success if you commit to it, to entering races and training properly.

    Until then it's like being the best at fifa on the Xbox and expecting a ticket to Brazil.
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Well I am good at Fifa... ahhh the possibilities. Cheers
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    I found the 'Hillingdon GP' on the 1st June and have two questions. Firstly it says it is part of the 2014 British Cycling Women's Road Series, but there is only one race which states women only, so I wanted to double check the others are open to gents! Otherwise I can always pack a wig and some lipstick. And secondly, am I okay to pay on the day or is it wise to pay up front, only because I have not had my licence through the post yet but equally I don't want to rock up and be turned away.
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Try https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... &region_id[]=23&zuv_bc_event_filter_item_id[]=23 EDIT better link here, http://is.gd/b2qf45 due to annoying characters.

    Don't search by keyword, very few events have the word "Hillingdon" in them. It's just the name of the circuit for 99% of them (except the GP which you don't really want to enter! Not the men's or the women's :lol:)

    BC West Thames series is the Tues night one. Basically all the races in Middlesex under that filter I posted above will be Hillingdon, click on different ones to see what races are actually on offer, or filter it further using the left-sidebar for 4th category races.
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    Not meaning to highjack the thread so sorry if I do,

    I have been wondering what sort of power/weight or raw power figures it requires to win a sprint at the local club race level, anyone got any race info on that?
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    maryka wrote:
    Try https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... &region_id[]=23&zuv_bc_event_filter_item_id[]=23 EDIT better link here, http://is.gd/b2qf45 due to annoying characters.

    Don't search by keyword, very few events have the word "Hillingdon" in them. It's just the name of the circuit for 99% of them (except the GP which you don't really want to enter! Not the men's or the women's :lol:)

    BC West Thames series is the Tues night one. Basically all the races in Middlesex under that filter I posted above will be Hillingdon, click on different ones to see what races are actually on offer, or filter it further using the left-sidebar for 4th category races.

    Errrr what's wrong with the GP?
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • LegendLust
    LegendLust Posts: 1,022
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Not meaning to highjack the thread so sorry if I do,

    I have been wondering what sort of power/weight or raw power figures it requires to win a sprint at the local club race level, anyone got any race info on that?

    Tell you what. Enter a local club race and see for yourself.

    If everyone took notice of 'numbers', nobody would have heard of Mark Cavendish.
    Selling my Legend frame
    http://owningalegend.wordpress.com/2014 ... ced-price/
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Borderland wrote:
    Don't search by keyword, very few events have the word "Hillingdon" in them. It's just the name of the circuit for 99% of them (except the GP which you don't really want to enter! Not the men's or the women's :lol:)

    Errrr what's wrong with the GP?[/quote]

    You'll get dropped very quickly, which might not be too embarrassing in the mens, but I doubt you'd enjoy it in the womens getting lapped.

    There is actually a support 3/4 race, which you might be okay in, but you'd be better off with a 4th cat only race, or a midweek race.

    You can win local races with 500watt sprints or 1600 watt sprints, just like pro races, peak power in road races don't matter much compared to lots of other more important things.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Yeah I entered the 3/4
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Not meaning to highjack the thread so sorry if I do,

    I have been wondering what sort of power/weight or raw power figures it requires to win a sprint at the local club race level, anyone got any race info on that?

    It's a bit like asking how many goals you need to score to win a football match. You need a few watts more than the guys you are sprinting against - plus the fitness and skills to still be in the mix at the end of the race..
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Borderland wrote:
    maryka wrote:
    Try https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/event ... &region_id[]=23&zuv_bc_event_filter_item_id[]=23 EDIT better link here, http://is.gd/b2qf45 due to annoying characters.

    Don't search by keyword, very few events have the word "Hillingdon" in them. It's just the name of the circuit for 99% of them (except the GP which you don't really want to enter! Not the men's or the women's :lol:)

    BC West Thames series is the Tues night one. Basically all the races in Middlesex under that filter I posted above will be Hillingdon, click on different ones to see what races are actually on offer, or filter it further using the left-sidebar for 4th category races.

    Errrr what's wrong with the GP?
    You won't get into either. :wink:
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Really? I just got a place online....
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    Ok, thanks for the replies, maybe I need to phrase the question better:

    Has anyone here won a sprint at 2/3/4 cat level? If so, how much power/kg did they need in the last 30 s?


    I am well aware than there is a bunch of other stuff get right before that 30 s makes any difference at all, I am just looking for some example numbers (purely out of INTEREST).
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    Borderland wrote:
    Really? I just got a place online....
    Oh my mistake, they don't seem to be running the 100-lap elite men's race this year, only the women's and a 3/4 men's support race. So yes you should get into the support race if they aren't choosing the field (doing first-come first-served entry instead).

    Edit: there is a men's E/1/2 but not nearly as long a race as in past years!
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Ok, thanks for the replies, maybe I need to phrase the question better:

    Has anyone here won a sprint at 2/3/4 cat level? If so, how much power/kg did they need in the last 30 s?


    I am well aware than there is a bunch of other stuff get right before that 30 s makes any difference at all, I am just looking for some example numbers (purely out of INTEREST).
    The attention to detail which goes into Cavendish’s sprints is quite incredible. He is well known for his scepticism of judging riders purely by their power outputs, and when he talks about his own methods of racing, it’s not surprising. Wattages are only a small part of a very long equation, although Cavendish’s reputed low numbers don’t look that low to us.

    “You’d be surprised at my watts,” Cavendish says.

    “Most people who say that their maximum is 1,600 watts won’t put out 1,600. My maximum is 1,580, and that is a lot. Not many guys will do more than a hundred more than that. But no one will ever get close to that in a race after 200 kilometres,” he continues.

    “I put out 1,490 today in training, on bad form, but I won’t put that out in a race. It’s not watts, and it’s not just my frontal area in a sprint. It’s everything beforehand. How I ride in the peloton. My pedalling action. How I sit. I save so much energy for the finish.”
  • milese
    milese Posts: 1,233
    Even that artical causes questions, is Mark talking about peak, 5 second, 20 second etc?

    As said, it will depend on so much, whether the sprint follows a long uphill so everyone has been on the rivet for a long time with minimal drafting benefit, or whether you can just sit on a wheel comfortably and bang out 5 seconds on the line.

    My highest watts in a race is generally from sprinting out of corners during the race rather than during the final run in, for the simple reason that a lot of the time you ride easily into the corner so have the energy to put out big watts, whilst the pace is normally ramped up in the run in so that you've already been over threshold for 5 minutes before the sprint, and its much harder to pop big numbers having been fighting off being dropped for 5 minutes.....

    Be interesting to hear others views, but I reckon 1200/1300 watts peak is probably good for a 2/3/4 sprinter, but as Mark said, you'll be very lucky to have the opportunity to be fresh enough to come up with that in a race.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Sprinting is more about being fresh and in a good position. You can contest 2/3/4 sprints around 1100w peak probably, but obviously the bigger the bunch the more sprinters there are.

    I'd worry more about position and freshness more than peak power output at 2/3/4. I've won 3 bunch sprints in 3/4 races and I couldn't get near 1300w.
  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Can I ask are we talking road watts or watt bike watts and how much discrepancy is there between the two?
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    I suspect people are talking about 'real road' watts, as not everyone will have a wattbike. As for discrepancies - one is generated on a static indoor bike - the other is generated during a race.
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    As documented earlier in this thread my "peak" wattage is over 1,800W on the Wattbike but that's when I was just doing an artificial "what's my peak wattage" exercise. At the end of a hard session I could generally put out around 1,000W, but I probably wouldn't have turned myself inside out like I often do in a road race. Two races I did last week, the first I easily won my sprint out of a group of 4 (group 3 on the road sadly) as we had been soft pedalling for the preceding lap so I was relatively fresh. The second race was a handicap and I had no idea where I was overall but ended up racing one other guy on the last lap thinking we were possibly vying for 10th place out of the E12 group - I could tell I had more power than the other guy in overall terms, but I had nothing for the sprint and just couldn't take him despite being on his wheel in the run up to the line. So, I'd say that having a high FTP, good technique (cornering, following wheels), good tactics (knowing which wheel to follow, when to attack, when to chase, when to hide), good positioning (particularly on the last lap) and a bit of luck can add up to a lot more than a big number when it comes to contesting a sprint.
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  • Borderland
    Borderland Posts: 72
    Imposter wrote:
    I suspect people are talking about 'real road' watts, as not everyone will have a wattbike. As for discrepancies - one is generated on a static indoor bike - the other is generated during a race.

    I meant is there a difference one way or another, I read Joe Friels blog and he pretty said it is anyone's guess, some people fare better indoor some better outdoor.
    https://borderlandnews.jux.com/ - Cannondale Super Six - @borderlandnews
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Surely your wattage target is like the bike target - N+1 ...

    But just read the extract from Cav's interview - it's not just about wattage -it's about being able to deliver power at the end of a hard ride ...
    so being able to produce 1200, 1300, 1400 or even 1500w for 20-30 seconds isn't going to win a race - unless you can produce that after you've ridden with the leading bunch for x laps and chased any breakaways down ...
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Borderland wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    I suspect people are talking about 'real road' watts, as not everyone will have a wattbike. As for discrepancies - one is generated on a static indoor bike - the other is generated during a race.

    I meant is there a difference one way or another, I read Joe Friels blog and he pretty said it is anyone's guess, some people fare better indoor some better outdoor.

    Fella - you just got to enter a race and find out for yourself. Seriously. Everything else is just theory.. :wink:

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