Vuelta a Andalucia 2014 *SPOILERS*

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    You could clearly see that Wiggins is on the chunky side atm.
    Don't know why folks expect him to be doing much in mid-February.

    Having said that, I know Sky stuck to the tried and tested, but was that climb
    best suited to the train?
    With 6 guys all close in the GC, might not it have been better to sit on what was left of
    Movistar and send riders up the road on the final two climbs?
    I know that's fairly radical for Sky, but Valverde might have been isolated marking
    more than just Richie Porte.
    Surprise value, if nothing else.

    What strikes me about Sky is they lack a real road captain. Most of their leaders are new to the role and may not fully be used to barking orders. Both Froome and Wiggins have said they struggled with this. I don't imagine for one minute Contador has an issue ordering a team mate to do something for him.

    They need someone to control that train, to make the decisions on the road, rather than in the bus before the stage. It was clear with 2Km to go today what was going to happen. Thomas should have went for the stage win, with Porte staying on Valverde's wheel. But instead he rode himself in to the ground and meant Movistar could use the numbers to secure a win.

    Even in team GB's road success David Millar has been the captain.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Dario Cioni's first race as a DS - learning curve perhaps?


    Anyway, MOV and Valverde played a blinder. That finish was right up his street.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Dario Cioni's first race as a DS - learning curve perhaps?


    Anyway, MOV and Valverde played a blinder. That finish was right up his street.

    Could be a good point.


    Yeah it was akin to one of the shorter Belgian lumps he seems to like so much.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,233
    sjmclean wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    You could clearly see that Wiggins is on the chunky side atm.
    Don't know why folks expect him to be doing much in mid-February.

    Having said that, I know Sky stuck to the tried and tested, but was that climb
    best suited to the train?
    With 6 guys all close in the GC, might not it have been better to sit on what was left of
    Movistar and send riders up the road on the final two climbs?
    I know that's fairly radical for Sky, but Valverde might have been isolated marking
    more than just Richie Porte.
    Surprise value, if nothing else.

    What strikes me about Sky is they lack a real road captain. Most of their leaders are new to the role and may not fully be used to barking orders. Both Froome and Wiggins have said they struggled with this. I don't imagine for one minute Contador has an issue ordering a team mate to do something for him.

    They need someone to control that train, to make the decisions on the road, rather than in the bus before the stage. It was clear with 2Km to go today what was going to happen. Thomas should have went for the stage win, with Porte staying on Valverde's wheel. But instead he rode himself in to the ground and meant Movistar could use the numbers to secure a win.

    Even in team GB's road success David Millar has been the captain.

    In summation, all this plus what RR said...
    There: that covers all the Sky conjecture for the next while.
    I can't imagine anyone wanting to mention a Sky rider any more in this race unless they do a really good performance or are busted for drugs. That would be stupid.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    You could clearly see that Wiggins is on the chunky side atm.
    Don't know why folks expect him to be doing much in mid-February.

    Would you expect Great Champions like Contador and Valverde to do nothing in Feb? Or spirited amazing young riders like Quintana and Kwia to sit back ride wheels then tail off when the road goes upward?

    I care at all about Wiggins - even if he was 100% form he isn't much of a watch for the fans - but if everyone was pedaling like him then what would be the point of watching until the Classics?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,815
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    You could clearly see that Wiggins is on the chunky side atm.
    Don't know why folks expect him to be doing much in mid-February.

    Would you expect Great Champions like Contador and Valverde to do nothing in Feb? Or spirited amazing young riders like Quintana and Kwia to sit back ride wheels then tail off when the road goes upward?

    I care at all about Wiggins - even if he was 100% form he isn't much of a watch for the fans - but if everyone was pedaling like him then what would be the point of watching until the Classics?

    You are trolling the wrong bloke here, FF.
    I don't "follow" Wiggins any more than I follow the "great champions" you so admire.
    I stick to following the sport.

    To answer your question. I would expect a team influenced by BC's training methods on the track, to have certain riders taper towards certain races, differently to Movistar or Tinkoff.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I care at all about Wiggins - even if he was 100% form he isn't much of a watch for the fans - but if everyone was pedaling like him then what would be the point of watching until the Classics?

    I don't know whether you're being disingenuous for the sake of argument, but plenty of "great champions" do precisely naff all at this point of the season. Others work for their domestiques to give them a chance of a win or a podium. The fact that Sky have Porte in 2nd and Thomas in 10th might give you a clue as to how Wiggins has approached this race. Another clue is that Sky have Porte pencilled in to lead the team at the Giro. Wiggins may not ride a GT until the Vuelta.

    And if you're only interested in the very top names then no, there's not all that much point in watching until the classics. Only the riders looking at the Giro are likely to be really firing now. For stage races it doesn't really kick off until P-N/T-A.
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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    edited February 2014
    ...
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    Bg73igOIgAEMIFH.jpg:large


    Love these short sharp Spanish style finishes
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I care at all about Wiggins - even if he was 100% form he isn't much of a watch for the fans - but if everyone was pedaling like him then what would be the point of watching until the Classics?

    I don't know whether you're being disingenuous for the sake of argument, but plenty of "great champions" do precisely naff all at this point of the season. Others work for their domestiques to give them a chance of a win or a podium. The fact that Sky have Porte in 2nd and Thomas in 10th might give you a clue as to how Wiggins has approached this race. Another clue is that Sky have Porte pencilled in to lead the team at the Giro. Wiggins may not ride a GT until the Vuelta.

    And if you're only interested in the very top names then no, there's not all that much point in watching until the classics. Only the riders looking at the Giro are likely to be really firing now. For stage races it doesn't really kick off until P-N/T-A.

    I am not even bothering to read post from you anymore...go back to your doping threads and contribute to locking them down as you have so frequently this year.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    You could clearly see that Wiggins is on the chunky side atm.
    Don't know why folks expect him to be doing much in mid-February.

    Would you expect Great Champions like Contador and Valverde to do nothing in Feb? Or spirited amazing young riders like Quintana and Kwia to sit back ride wheels then tail off when the road goes upward?

    I care at all about Wiggins - even if he was 100% form he isn't much of a watch for the fans - but if everyone was pedaling like him then what would be the point of watching until the Classics?

    You are trolling the wrong bloke here, FF.
    I don't "follow" Wiggins any more than I follow the "great champions" you so admire.
    I stick to following the sport.

    To answer your question. I would expect a team influenced by BC's training methods on the track, to have certain riders taper towards certain races, differently to Movistar or Tinkoff.

    Trolling? Get a sense of perspective.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Art Vandelay
    Art Vandelay Posts: 1,982
    TailWindHome wrote:
    ...
    Wiggins didn't do any pulling the entire stage. Quite a few seem keen to defend Wiggo against any criticism? He's got Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of California coming which he's targeted so he should be in reasonable shape.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    frenchfighter wrote:
    ,
    I am not even bothering to read post from you anymore...go back to your doping threads and contribute to locking them down as you have so frequently this year.

    Harsh, but as you will.
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  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    ...
    Wiggins didn't do any pulling the entire stage. Quite a few seem keen to defend Wiggo against any criticism? He's got Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of California coming which he's targeted so he should be in reasonable shape.


    Did you see TV coverage of the entire race? Let me know that link so that I can watch it today :wink:

    Anyway, come on. OCDP called it last night. Can we get back to the race and the key protaganists? Movistar and Valverde played a blinder yesterday - and Mollema's ride was very very good. A thread that's in danger of primarily banging on about someone who's not a protaganist here, is kinda missing a point or two.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    ...
    Wiggins didn't do any pulling the entire stage. Quite a few seem keen to defend Wiggo against any criticism? He's got Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of California coming which he's targeted so he should be in reasonable shape.


    It seemed to me that the rider doing the pull was the rider who pulled off as soon as the climb started.

    EBH must have pulled off just before Wiggins did?

    My rider identification is weak at the best of times but wasn't helped by the bouncing camera work.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,815
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    ...
    Wiggins didn't do any pulling the entire stage. Quite a few seem keen to defend Wiggo against any criticism? He's got Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of California coming which he's targeted so he should be in reasonable shape.

    Only from reading too much into one stage in a smallish February race.
    I'm reminded of the Volta Algarve a couple of years ago.
    One sizeable effort on the Queen stage, nowt else.
    Maybe yesterday was a nowt day and today may be different..........or maybe not.

    It's what forum do innit? Speculate 365 days a year.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Can we get back to the race and the key protaganists? Movistar and Valverde played a blinder yesterday - and Mollema's ride was very very good. A thread that's in danger of primarily banging on about someone who's not a protaganist here, is kinda missing a point or two.

    +1
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  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Anyway, come on. OCDP called it last night. Can we get back to the race and the key protaganists? Movistar and Valverde played a blinder yesterday - and Mollema's ride was very very good. A thread that's in danger of primarily banging on about someone who's not a protaganist here, is kinda missing a point or two.

    I don't like the way in the last year or so Movistar have taken i upon themselves to ride like Sky somewhat by bossing it. They are not as strong but have a ton of cash also so are able to buy some serious steam rollers to keep things in check. Sky had a rest today as Movistar was riding and they only took over at the climb hence why it was pretty severe pace burning off the vast majority of riders. Not surprised Valverde won however given Sky have no one apart from Froome who can accelerate hard after such a long and prolonged effort.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Vuelta-a-Andalucia-Ruta-Ciclista-Del-Sol-Stage-2-1392144910.png

    Today's stage.

    I'm looking forward to the final climb. I'm hoping for some fireworks with people trying to put time into Valverde, however, we'll probably get a Movistar controlled train. We will see. Looking on google maps https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.479115,-4.378009&spn=0.019753,0.038581&sll=37.579413,-4.53186&sspn=0.31562,0.617294&oq=Cabra,+Spain&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=15&layer=c&cbll=37.479138,-4.378132&panoid=dUkqzyt8gjiN4wNpeVq5lg&cbp=12,330.87,,0,0 it's a quite narrow exposed road.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Good to see the season kicking off with Spoiler fireworks. Wiggins is on a tough gig; weighed down by demons (possibly), normal lard, and the mantle of Smashing Britain's first Tour winner, albeit on a perfect parcours.

    I think if he came from any other country, his post-tour performances would be ridiculed here. It should be possible to take such criticisms in the face, and not react as if it's PlasterGate II.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Above The Cows wrote:
    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.479115,-4.378009&spn=0.019753,0.038581&sll=37.579413,-4.53186&sspn=0.31562,0.617294&oq=Cabra,+Spain&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=15&layer=c&cbll=37.479138,-4.378132&panoid=dUkqzyt8gjiN4wNpeVq5lg&cbp=12,330.87,,0,0 it's a quite narrow exposed road.

    Love the Spanish landscape.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ---dupe
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    OK in my procrastination mode I thought I'd climb the climb on google maps. And well we know how these people would have contributed to the now locked Pantani thread:

    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.490115,-4.349728&spn=0.079544,0.154324&sll=52.374716,4.898623&sspn=0.121566,0.308647&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=13&layer=c&cbll=37.490078,-4.382546&panoid=zBwAtINW9BJpHNOAcLoINA&cbp=12,22.34,,0,25.31

    Pantani always in our hearts.


    OK geek out over.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    When was the last time they repaved this road!

    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.492022,-4.348869&spn=0.079542,0.154324&sll=52.374716,4.898623&sspn=0.121566,0.308647&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=13&layer=c&cbll=37.491967,-4.381533&panoid=o8Syba7eBOYg-Jo8HSj8Nw&cbp=12,110.16,,0,2.74
    Correlation is not causation.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 13,328
    Above The Cows wrote:
    When was the last time they repaved this road!

    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.492022,-4.348869&spn=0.079542,0.154324&sll=52.374716,4.898623&sspn=0.121566,0.308647&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=13&layer=c&cbll=37.491967,-4.381533&panoid=o8Syba7eBOYg-Jo8HSj8Nw&cbp=12,110.16,,0,2.74

    Half expecting to see "Anquetil" on one of these sometime!
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  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    When was the last time they repaved this road!

    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.492022,-4.348869&spn=0.079542,0.154324&sll=52.374716,4.898623&sspn=0.121566,0.308647&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=13&layer=c&cbll=37.491967,-4.381533&panoid=o8Syba7eBOYg-Jo8HSj8Nw&cbp=12,110.16,,0,2.74

    Half expecting to see "Anquetil" on one of these sometime!

    :lol:
    Correlation is not causation.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Haha, those links are pretty cool.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Above The Cows wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    When was the last time they repaved this road!

    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.492022,-4.348869&spn=0.079542,0.154324&sll=52.374716,4.898623&sspn=0.121566,0.308647&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=13&layer=c&cbll=37.491967,-4.381533&panoid=o8Syba7eBOYg-Jo8HSj8Nw&cbp=12,110.16,,0,2.74

    Half expecting to see "Anquetil" on one of these sometime!

    :lol:

    Well if you look closely there is a rider just up the road who mysteriously disappears. Not sure Jacques' ghost would ride a MTB though.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Above The Cows wrote:
    When was the last time they repaved this road!

    https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Cabra,+Spain&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.492022,-4.348869&spn=0.079542,0.154324&sll=52.374716,4.898623&sspn=0.121566,0.308647&t=h&hnear=Cabra,+C%C3%B3rdoba,+Andaluc%C3%ADa,+Spain&z=13&layer=c&cbll=37.491967,-4.381533&panoid=o8Syba7eBOYg-Jo8HSj8Nw&cbp=12,110.16,,0,2.74


    New shiny toy.... :wink:
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,628
    Decent break on, Movistar only letting it get 3.30 or so.

    Simon Geschke in the break for Giant-Shimano doing a passable Wiggins impression with that beard - whilst that team name and kit keeps causing me to revert back 12 months and think 'they're the ex Rabo boys (Giant Blanco)' rather than the ex Argos team.

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