Wiggins is actually ill

inkyfingers

Norfolk Hill Champ wrote:

It's a shame that people are missing the most important thing. This has really screwed my PTP chances.

Until I read that i'd forgotten that i'd picked him for PTP overall. Damn, that's my season done already.

smithy21

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

GrenW wrote:

He's withdrawn - Sky tweet

http://t.co/LF5cMlCtsO

Oh well I suppose my post above was moments too soon...

Fail. Legends ride with broken collarbones and any sorts of issues.

Don't be silly. I'm not a Wiggins fan but that's stupid. The guy is ill, he's got an infection and what's the general advise there? If its below your neck, rest.

I don't think he had the form coming in to the race, but that's beside the point.

Agree with this 100%. Undercooked coming in, hoping to ride into shape but gets ill. Sensible thing is to go home. Can't believe people want/expect him to ride on. Presumably the same people thought putting Horner back on his bike when he didn't know where he was is a sign of toughness too.

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

At least it is now clear Sky made the bad call or Henao and Uran losing an unnecessary minute.

Yep, with the benefit of a week's worth of hindsight including Wiggins not putting the expected time (that pretty much all the BR experts even predicted in advance) into the others in the TT and him becoming ill (which he apparently wasn't back then). Getting two domestiques, which is their role in this team, to ride in support of their team leader does indeed look like a mistake. I can pick the Euro Millions numbers correctly everytime after they've been announced but I've never won.

As for comments by others that this shows Wiggins isn't a team player - how so exactly? I'm not sure how a man who cannot keep up on a flat stage is going to be much help to Uran's GC hopes. All he's going to do by continuing is prolong his illness and recovery time, at least dropping out now he should be in a decent position to support Froome at the Tour (and contrary to what others seem to think I believe he will do that if the team tells him that's his role) or act as plan B as this episode shows that having two options to play is a sensible approach.

pat1cp

I don't think he was "dropped on a flat stage" yesterday. He was dropped on a wet descent, again. By which time OPQ were on the front and BMC gave them a helping hand when they noticed Bambi was missing at the back. This gave them no chance of getting back onto the peloton.

He's obviously not well or on top form, but I suspect his descending in the wet has cost him far more time than his chest.

andyp

Of course the chest is never affected by descending in the wet.

Jesus wept, this place has gone to the dogs. The level of comment is beyond parody now.

greeny12

What Pross said ^^^^

We all have our heroes and villains in cycling but some of this anti Wiggo/Sky rhetoric is absolutely pathetic.

Crozza

^^ Bambi Wiggins LOL

could actually stick

r0bh

andyp wrote:

Of course the chest is never affected by descending in the wet.

Jesus wept, this place has gone to the dogs. The level of comment is beyond parody now.

^^^ This

This forum is really going downhill, seems to have been taken over by the hard of thinking.

PeteinSQ

The idea that he should continue is rubbish. I know that there have been performances in the past where people like Tyler Hamilton (a legend :?: ) carried on with broken collar bones and other things. That was a different world where I might remind FrenchFighther that pretty much the entire peloton (the legends especially) were all taking advantage of the full pharmacopoeia.

Wiggins can hopefully recover from this illness to come back and help Froome win the tour - or even win it himself.

Someone who lauds Contador as a legend when he's a proven drugs cheat really has no place criticising other riders. Where's the panache in being a cheat?

chrisday

r0bh wrote:

andyp wrote:

Of course the chest is never affected by descending in the wet.

Jesus wept, this place has gone to the dogs. The level of comment is beyond parody now.

^^^ This

This forum is really going downhill, seems to have been taken over by the hard of thinking.

Seconded/Thirded. And entirely coincidental with me beginning to post more, rather than lurking for another 8 years

The level of polarised, narrow-minded, "everything is black and white" and downright uninformed comment on here is spectacular.
My take, FWIW - Wiggins was probably in pretty damn good form coming in, maybe not "best ever", but certainly enough to be competitive. The fall really hit the descending mojo, as Millar put it the other week - I don't see it as anything more or less than this: sometimes it just goes. Like a golfer getting the yips etc., you don't want it to happen, but once that little seed of self-doubt is in there, there you go.
Put the cold/infection and the rotten weather together, and you've got someone who's physically deteriorating, coupled with a very public loss of confidence, and there's no way he's going to continue to be up there with "heads of state", particularly when his "suitcase of courage" appears to have been mislaid by Naples airport.

I'm a fan of the guy, in no small part because of his interesting and complex personality, and I'm disappointed, but it's neither a catastrophe nor proof he's "rubbish". Bike riders get ill, have bad luck, lose confidence, etc. It's what makes things interesting!
If you don't like him, fine - I get that, with my own bete noire, TV Tommy - but some of the self-justifying guff on here is spectacular. I don't like Voeckler, but I don't try and make everything he does somehow prove or justify my dislike of him - he's obviously talented, I just don't like him.

Ah, whatever. Fire away.

slim_boy_fat

chrisday wrote:

r0bh wrote:

andyp wrote:

Of course the chest is never affected by descending in the wet.

Jesus wept, this place has gone to the dogs. The level of comment is beyond parody now.

^^^ This

This forum is really going downhill, seems to have been taken over by the hard of thinking.

Seconded/Thirded. And entirely coincidental with me beginning to post more, rather than lurking for another 8 years

The level of polarised, narrow-minded, "everything is black and white" and downright uninformed comment on here is spectacular.
My take, FWIW - Wiggins was probably in pretty damn good form coming in, maybe not "best ever", but certainly enough to be competitive. The fall really hit the descending mojo, as Millar put it the other week - I don't see it as anything more or less than this: sometimes it just goes. Like a golfer getting the yips etc., you don't want it to happen, but once that little seed of self-doubt is in there, there you go.
Put the cold/infection and the rotten weather together, and you've got someone who's physically deteriorating, coupled with a very public loss of confidence, and there's no way he's going to continue to be up there with "heads of state", particularly when his "suitcase of courage" appears to have been mislaid by Naples airport.

I'm a fan of the guy, in no small part because of his interesting and complex personality, and I'm disappointed, but it's neither a catastrophe nor proof he's "rubbish". Bike riders get ill, have bad luck, lose confidence, etc. It's what makes things interesting!
If you don't like him, fine - I get that, with my own bete noire, TV Tommy - but some of the self-justifying guff on here is spectacular. I don't like Voeckler, but I don't try and make everything he does somehow prove or justify my dislike of him - he's obviously talented, I just don't like him.

Ah, whatever. Fire away.

Good post and pretty much my feelings.

andyrr

Whilst we don't know the exact extent of Wiggins's illness - cold ? chest infection ? it's kinda sad that an athlete, whose livelihood is to a large extent based upon his having very good health, is getting slagged off when most peopel on here would quite likely not be riding a 5 mile commute in to their work if they were sufferign the same, never mind riding a 3 week stage race with 100mile+ days in cold and wet conditions on many days.

BR Poster : I've started suffering from a pretty heavy cold and wonder if the BR massive would advise I still perform my normal 100 mile ride to work tomorrow ?
BR Response : NO DON'T, rest up, drive or bus to work and make sure you don't start exercising again until you are sure you are clear of this.

It does also seem that Wiggins made the mistake of coming from a trackie-background and he's now aiming to win the GT that is seen as 'the most beautiful' plusas a final nail in his coffin he rides for the most hated pro-team around.

Re his descending : I don't recall him normally being all that bad but maybe in the wet his nervousness takes over - maybe they should bring Sean Yates back into the team for some specialist coaching sessions.

dynamicbrick

This does seem to be a prime example of the love-hate relationship the British have with our sporting giants.

That aside, watching Sky over the last few weeks I did wonder whether they were missing Sean Yates. Certainly didn't seem to be the super disciplined - almost military - machine of 2012.

ocdupalais

Fortunately for Wiggins, he's already cemented his "Legend" status: Contador will never achieve this.

That he was only 7th through first checkpoint on TT after technical first section, but finished strongly suggests his loss of mojo rather than lack of power was the issue, as others have said. He would've almost certainly been infected by whatever lurgy he's got by Stage 11. An MTF on a GT is about the ceiling of the physiological demands of the sport, so even the tiniest ailment/symptom will affect performance. So on that basis, to only lose 30 sec to the other favourites, means he's already done the performance FF stupidly demands.

One of my worst ever days on the bike was after getting ill after pushing too hard to top of Sierra Nevada (3400m). Next day had to ride 100miles to get flight. Awful. Racing would've been impossible.

lochindaal

Having had my own minor experience of riding the Dolomites in the Maratonna last year with a chect infection to keep going would be madness. Every time the gradient went above 6% I struggled to keep my breathing under control. Going up the Passa Giau (10km at 10%) was a nightmare and that was at a slow amateur crawl not pro race pace.

I also believe that it took me about 3 or 4 months to get over it properly by pushing so hard on the day to finish. This was my main goal for last season so I was not to bothered. If I was a pro racer with career and other races on the horizon I wouldn't be so stupid.

Escher303

chrisday wrote:

If you don't like him, fine - I get that, with my own bete noire, TV Tommy - but some of the self-justifying guff on here is spectacular. I don't like Voeckler, but I don't try and make everything he does somehow prove or justify my dislike of him - he's obviously talented, I just don't like him.

Brilliantly put, especially this ^^^^^. the guff you are referring to says so much more about the person who is posting it than ever it does about who they are posting about. They appear to have a blind spot the size of a planet and self-awareness at entirely the other end of the scale.

Cleat Eastwood

Shame he had to quit, and hesjedal too - knowing as eh does the romance of teh giro I'm sure going into the second week, especially, Wiggins did so fully expecting to seeing out the whole tour - deffo makes the TdF more interesting though.

pat1cp

I not a Wiggo hater, nor a fanboy. And I really wasn't trying to slag him.

He's got a chest infection, fact. He's lost his descending mojo (as quoted by Dave Millar), fact. Should go home, probably.

He lost more time because of his mojo than his chest, my opinion.

Coach H

dynamicbrick wrote:

That aside, watching Sky over the last few weeks I did wonder whether they were missing Sean Yates. Certainly didn't seem to be the super disciplined - almost military - machine of 2012.

You may have a point here (IMO I would pay more attention to a Yates growl than a Portal polite request; although i thinks Portal is actualy a pretty good DS overall) and I also think they are missing the experience of Mick Rogers as road captain in some of these stages

deejay

I am reminded of the last guy to loose a GT but not through ill health.
1998 and Ullrich couldn't hack it in the cold and rain.
He however came back extremely strong the next day to no avail.
That GT was lost in ONE day of foul weather.

dsoutar

frenchfighter wrote:

GrenW wrote:

He's withdrawn - Sky tweet

http://t.co/LF5cMlCtsO

Oh well I suppose my post above was moments too soon...

Fail. Legends ride with broken collarbones and any sorts of issues.

A crass comment from a Total Fekin Knob

deejay

Coach H wrote:

I would pay more attention to a Yates growl than a Portal polite request;

I've never heard a Sean Yates growl but then I never been around him when something really, really upsets him.

kleinstroker

I'm not sure what the vitreol being displayed on here is actually being aimed at? I think Wiggo himself would definitely like to think he could have carried on in the giro if the weather had been a bit kinder to him and his illness. We don't really know what the problem is, but Cataldo and Knees both rode through it and have recovered. I'm sure he would have loved to just get through it and come back to show his class, and I for one really think he has a lot of class and a lot of ability.

Coach H

deejay wrote:

Coach H wrote:

I would pay more attention to a Yates growl than a Portal polite request;

I've never heard a Sean Yates growl but then I never been around him when something really, really upsets him.

Youtube some in car footage of him

Crozza

I think that the doubts around Wiggins mindset as opposed to his physical condition stem from some history - 2010 TDF and stories of months spent in the pub for example. For sure he has an impressive palmares but also a very human side which is what makes him so interesting (and likeable to many). Unfortunately it also gives people cause to doubt him now

Macaloon

kleinstroker wrote:

I'm not sure what the vitreol being displayed on here is actually being aimed at? I think Wiggo himself would definitely like to think he could have carried on in the giro if the weather had been a bit kinder to him and his illness. We don't really know what the problem is, but Cataldo and Knees both rode through it and have recovered. I'm sure he would have loved to just get through it and come back to show his class, and I for one really think he has a lot of class and a lot of ability.

Many people scoffed that Sky could replicate track success on the road. Sky winning the TdF last year, may have left them feeling a little humiliated. Some of these people may even have defended Armstrong in the past, making the Sky humiliation their second in short succession. That must sting a bit and make rational thought almost impossible.

Edit: Enjoyed some of the realistic (non black/white) posts above, apart from the dude dissing TV who clearly knows nothing about the sport

BelgianBeerGeek

How about this as another way of looking at it:

Wiggins' dropping out is better for the team. The longer he stays, struggling on, the more he is holding the others back. They are now free to make what they can of the Giro without the endless speculation involved about Wiggins' mojo/fitness/interest in the whole event.
He came along, gave it a shot, but fell ill. He has probably already moved on and is thinking of his next race (once recovered).
Perhaps he is a better team player than people give him credit for.

tailwindhome

FF should read his own thread title.

ocdupalais

TailWindHome wrote:

FF should read his own thread title.

I imagine that that's about all there is for frenchfighter to read, other than frenchfighter posts: everyone is on frenchfighter's "ignore" list, other than frenchfighter.

oldwelshman

frenchfighter wrote:

So he suffered yesterday. I suppose Marginal Gains and Big Money didnt help him from getting sick.

He can limit the losses in the stages to come then be fully fit in the final week. At that point he can show some legendary courage a la Contador and attack from a sizeable distance working his way well up towards the podium. This would make me respect him.

He could also suffer greatly in the next few days and get smoked on GC. At that point he could then go in some breakaway on a mountain stage. He could fight for the win, solo. That would be amazing. Very very rare you are going to see something like that with a GT GC top rider normally so this is a good opportunity.

Or he could fade into obscurity. Or just become one of the train.

At least it is now clear Sky made the bad call or Henao and Uran losing an unnecessary minute.

Good to see you respect a proven doper and not a clean rider then.