Giro Stage 10 - Spoiler thread
Comments
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mfin wrote:During a stage, it doesn't even stay to 'say what you see' to quote Roy off Catchphrase, it turns into rubbish, where people get all excited one second that something's happened and next second they're proved wrong 'such and such has blown', oh no, he hasn't... such and such is looking bad, when he's peddling along with the best of them and by the time they've typed it he's back up at the front.
Guilty as charged yesterday :oops: in my defence I was flitting between screens and couldn't get a pop out window so had to watch a tiny picture. There was one hairpin where Wiggo looked like he was about to lose the wheel and then when Evans attacked it looked like Nibali had completely blown (which was when he dropped his chain).0 -
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/05/news/uran-says-giro-will-not-see-repeat-of-wigginsfroome-fiasco-of-last-years-tour_286701
Uran:
“I don’t know what will happen, but [Sergio] Henao and I are different than Froome. We always work for the team and we’ve never had any problems with the team,” Urán said. “We are not like Froome. I came here with the idea of helping the squad, whatever the goals may be. We shall see. We have to take it day by day.”0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Here's a question. If he/Sky expected to lose time, why did Uran attack?
Probably to take the edge of Nibali's legs before they hit the 20%, and break one of his domestiques. That would still leave Wiggins needing to ride his own race on the last section, but very possibly gapped less when the steepest ramp arrived.
We can talk about how Nibs was still fresh enough and Wiggins couldn't handle the gradient, but what would Wiggins have looked like if Nibali had arrived at the steep section just a touch fresher? We could easily be looking at a couple of minutes dropped, not 48 seconds.
Playing the long game, they've now got 2 riders at 2 minutes, so next time Uran attacks he will have to be taken seriously.
Way too counter intuitive for my brain to process.
Have to say the most impressive ride of the day was from the Astana domestique who already seemed done in but pulled out a great couple of k to limit the gap. If Nibs wins this he owes that man a bottle of fine wine..“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Here's a question. If he/Sky expected to lose time, why did Uran attack?
Probably to take the edge of Nibali's legs before they hit the 20%, and break one of his domestiques. That would still leave Wiggins needing to ride his own race on the last section, but very possibly gapped less when the steepest ramp arrived.
We can talk about how Nibs was still fresh enough and Wiggins couldn't handle the gradient, but what would Wiggins have looked like if Nibali had arrived at the steep section just a touch fresher? We could easily be looking at a couple of minutes dropped, not 48 seconds.
Playing the long game, they've now got 2 riders at 2 minutes, so next time Uran attacks he will have to be taken seriously.
Way too counter intuitive for my brain to process.
Have to say the most impressive ride of the day was from the Astana domestique who already seemed done in but pulled out a great couple of k to limit the gap. If Nibs wins this he owes that man a bottle of fine wine..
I'd be a little pissed off If I only got a bottle of wine for helping him win the Giro....
Should be something more in the price range of a decent watch, or just do an Armstrong and give a fat wad of cash.0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:TailWindHome wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Here's a question. If he/Sky expected to lose time, why did Uran attack?
Probably to take the edge of Nibali's legs before they hit the 20%, and break one of his domestiques. That would still leave Wiggins needing to ride his own race on the last section, but very possibly gapped less when the steepest ramp arrived.
We can talk about how Nibs was still fresh enough and Wiggins couldn't handle the gradient, but what would Wiggins have looked like if Nibali had arrived at the steep section just a touch fresher? We could easily be looking at a couple of minutes dropped, not 48 seconds.
Playing the long game, they've now got 2 riders at 2 minutes, so next time Uran attacks he will have to be taken seriously.
Way too counter intuitive for my brain to process.
Have to say the most impressive ride of the day was from the Astana domestique who already seemed done in but pulled out a great couple of k to limit the gap. If Nibs wins this he owes that man a bottle of fine wine..
I'd be a little pissed off If I only got a bottle of wine for helping him win the Giro....
Should be something more in the price range of a decent watch, or just do an Armstrong and give a fat wad of cash.
If Nibs wins then the whole team will get a share of the cash."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
It was the right play but I am not so sure wiggo was expecting to lose time on nibs etc. I saw it as send Uran up the road - astana chase down, lose men, isolate nibali and wiggins sticks with him and evans to the end while uran gains some time to make him even more dangerous in the GC standings.
I can see Uran making up the 2+ mins, wiggins needs one of the big favs to crack on the longer but less steep climbs if he can indeed put them under pressure with high power output.
Wiggo keeps mentioning how inconsistant uran has been in the past which I guess can't be overlooked, there is another time trial of course - but a mountain one at that.0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/05/news/uran-says-giro-will-not-see-repeat-of-wigginsfroome-fiasco-of-last-years-tour_286701
Uran:
“I don’t know what will happen, but [Sergio] Henao and I are different than Froome. We always work for the team and we’ve never had any problems with the team,” Urán said. “We are not like Froome. I came here with the idea of helping the squad, whatever the goals may be. We shall see. We have to take it day by day.”
Miaow!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
perhaps this should be a separate thread but...
why does having a domestique matter on a climb? (I'm talking about Nibs)
Evans, Wiggins, et al didn't have any helpers and they rode up the hill okay (well Wiggins struggled but you know what I mean).
It's nothing to do with aero as they are going, what 10-12mph..?
So it can only be something to do with pacing - but surely a pro rider can ride at a certain pace up a hill. It's not that hard.
I can understand having team mates matters when tanking along the flat at 25mph+ but on a 20% climb...?
You hear a lot that someone is 'isolated' or 'has no teammates' etc. - so just ride up the climb with the others...no?Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer0 -
maddog 2 wrote:perhaps this should be a separate thread but...
why does having a domestique matter on a climb? (I'm talking about Nibs)
Evans, Wiggins, et al didn't have any helpers and they rode up the hill okay (well Wiggins struggled but you know what I mean).
It's nothing to do with aero as they are going, what 10-12mph..?
So it can only be something to do with pacing - but surely a pro rider can ride at a certain pace up a hill. It's not that hard.
I can understand having team mates matters when tanking along the flat at 25mph+ but on a 20% climb...?
You hear a lot that someone is 'isolated' or 'has no teammates' etc. - so just ride up the climb with the others...no?
Its a mental thing - a lot easier to follow a wheel than bury yourself completely.
and depending on speed and wind direction drafting can still be surprisingly useful on a climb.0 -
LOL at comments from Uran. Tell it like it is. Don`t think Froome will be riding for Sky next year.mfin wrote:I know Wiggins is a brit and all that, but people don't half go on about him, all this trying to assess this and that about how he is doing, criticising, conjecture on illness, blah blah blah.... its all boll**ks really. The guy hit the steep bit and lost about 30 seconds. Move on. (I did notice about 20 teams worth of other riders on the road, perhaps we could spread the guff out between them a bit more).
A lot of this stuff spouted reminds me of how football fans talk about football... don't think there are many vacancies at Sky for armchair DS's
Entirely agree.Contador is the Greatest0 -
I don't think Nibs team really chased Uran. They kept riding but there was no panic to close him down
If I was a GC guy, I'd not be too worried about Uran for overallFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:I don't think Nibs team really chased Uran. They kept riding but there was no panic to close him down
If I was a GC guy, I'd not be too worried about Uran for overall
This. No point burning all your matches on the first MTF to chase down a guy who will still be a minute back and most likely have a bad day somewhere."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
iainf72 wrote:I don't think Nibs team really chased Uran. They kept riding but there was no panic to close him down
If I was a GC guy, I'd not be too worried about Uran for overall
Check. Check. Check.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Idly thinking (don't want this to get too serious...)
Can we think of many bigger, GT one hit wonders than Ryder Hesjedal?
Obvious one is Oscar Pereiro, but his tour "win" was really just down to a lucky break, whereas Hejedal was right up there the whole race."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
frenchfighter wrote:LOL at comments from Uran. Tell it like it is. Don`t think Froome will be riding for Sky next year.mfin wrote:I know Wiggins is a brit and all that, but people don't half go on about him, all this trying to assess this and that about how he is doing, criticising, conjecture on illness, blah blah blah.... its all boll**ks really. The guy hit the steep bit and lost about 30 seconds. Move on. (I did notice about 20 teams worth of other riders on the road, perhaps we could spread the guff out between them a bit more).
A lot of this stuff spouted reminds me of how football fans talk about football... don't think there are many vacancies at Sky for armchair DS's
Entirely agree.
To the untrained eye (mine) you're just as guilty of this as anyone else. You're the Team Sky anti-fan who in my view goes a bit too far in displaying his dislike for Sky and Wiggins.<a><img></a>0 -
I describe what I am seeing and my thoughts on it in a succinct and somewhat light hearted manner. I am not anti-Sky, I just dislike their racing style and dont like many of their individual riders.
I dont ramble on for multiple paragraphs speculating.Contador is the Greatest0 -
inkyfingers wrote:Idly thinking (don't want this to get too serious...)
Can we think of many bigger, GT one hit wonders than Ryder Hesjedal?
Obvious one is Oscar Pereiro, but his tour "win" was really just down to a lucky break, whereas Hejedal was right up there the whole race.
Cobo?
Chiochiolli?
Savoldelli?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:inkyfingers wrote:Idly thinking (don't want this to get too serious...)
Can we think of many bigger, GT one hit wonders than Ryder Hesjedal?
Obvious one is Oscar Pereiro, but his tour "win" was really just down to a lucky break, whereas Hejedal was right up there the whole race.
Cobo?
Chiochiolli?
Savoldelli?
Cobo, yes indeed, how could I have forgotten him!
Chioccioli, he only won once, but had quite a few other high placing in the Giro.
Salvoldelli, would disagree on that as he won the Giro twice (which automatically counts him out) and had a couple of other high placings."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
inkyfingers wrote:Idly thinking (don't want this to get too serious...)
You do know this is the internet, don't you?
inkyfingers wrote:Can we think of many bigger, GT one hit wonders than Ryder Hesjedal?
Obvious one is Oscar Pereiro, but his tour "win" was really just down to a lucky break, whereas Hejedal was right up there the whole race.
Based on what? Just winning a GT once? Lots of riders have done that. Or can you take podiums or top 10 finishes into account? Hesjedal was 6th at the Tour in 2010 and Pereiro has another 3 top 10 GT finishes.0 -
I'd forgotton Savoldelli's 2nd! How remiss of me!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Garzelli (yes, he did win Tour of Switzerland and a number of Giro stages in the 2000s, but no other GTs).
If his palmares is a bit too rich to label him a one-hit wonder, I guess there's also Aitor "the Traitor" Gonzalez, who stole the Vuelta from his team leader back in 2002.0 -
The reason posters are 'banging on' about Wiggins is that, like it or not, he is the story of this year's Giro.
He started by bigging up the 'double'
Won the TTT
Threw away time (needlessly) on the next stage.
Had a puncture during the TT and didn't get the time gaps expected.
Fell behind on stage 10 and had to be towed back
Dropped more time on stage 11 after his team mate attacked.
As I say, like it or not, he has been the story almost every day.
Nibali, good TT performance aside, hasn't actually done anything yet.frenchfighter wrote:somewhat light hearted manner.
It would improve the spoiler threads dramatically if other posters got that you aren't always being entirely serious...“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:I'd forgotton Savoldelli's 2nd! How remiss of me!
Just leave now, and we won't say anything more about itgreasedscotsman wrote:
Based on what? Just winning a GT once? Lots of riders have done that. Or can you take podiums or top 10 finishes into account? Hesjedal was 6th at the Tour in 2010 and Pereiro has another 3 top 10 GT finishes.
If you win a GT once but have a handful of podium finishes then I don't think you can be called a one hit wonder.
Periero may have finished in the top 10 in the Tour, but I don't think anybody would have ever considered him as a potential winner of the race.
Hesjedal's 6th place in the Tour is his only other real GT result of note and blurs things a little, but he was 10 minutes off the winner on the road (Contador) and never really looked like a potential winner.
I appreciate that some will take this too seriously, but that's up to them."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
Le Commentateur wrote:Garzelli (yes, he did win Tour of Switzerland and a number of Giro stages in the 2000s, but no other GTs).
If his palmares is a bit too rich to label him a one-hit wonder, I guess there's also Aitor "the Traitor" Gonzalez, who stole the Vuelta from his team leader.
Aah yes, Aitor Gonzalez! Did he ever win another race?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
It has probably been said before but after 40 years involved in this sport, I am still pinching myself on the turnaround in British Cycling success. Not long ago we got humped all over the world in every discipline of this sport (with of course some notable exceptions who flourished in spite of the system).
If someone had told me back then that UK fans would be disgruntled because we had a man in fourth on the giro, and another winning virtually every grand tour sprint, I would have assumed my hippy sister had put something interesting in my cornflakes.
It really just shows how far UK cycling has advanced in a really short space of time.
The reasons are obvious; money, focus and a huge amount of luck and tenacity during Peter Keen's involvement in British Cycling.
As for Sir Brad, personally I think he is just short of racing this year, all of the so called mojo comes with that. I think it is an error to believe training alone can prepare a rider for a major tour. As you all know, so much of what you can achieve in any sport is actually in your head and IMHO I don't think Brad's race head is quite there yet.
Yesterday was a plan for sure and has occurred many times in cycling history. You send a potential threat up the road and hope the opposition will blow up chasing them down, then mop up. Nibs was wise to it, and I suspect that Brad will be relieved to have minimalised his losses on the Jersey yesterday. I am sure Sky knew he would have lost time yesterday if the plan failed, 20% inclines have never been Brad's forte. Where he is right now for sure is not on the Game A plan, but definitely on a Sky plan, because they are that meticulous.
Nibs does look nailed on but we are not even half way through yet. Anything can happen and usually does.
For me, I am just totally thrilled that my sport which has remained in the doldrums in Britain throughout most of my life has now literally gone into orbit.
Long may it continue.aztecboy0 -
inkyfingers wrote:If you win a GT once but have a handful of podium finishes then I don't think you can be called a one hit wonder.
How about Bjarne Riis then?0 -
inkyfingers wrote:Idly thinking (don't want this to get too serious...)
Can we think of many bigger, GT one hit wonders than Ryder Hesjedal?
Obvious one is Oscar Pereiro, but his tour "win" was really just down to a lucky break, whereas Hejedal was right up there the whole race.
Isn't Roger Walkowiak the king of one hit wonders?! 15th in the Vuelta was his next best grand tour performance and aside from his win never placed higher than 47th in the TdF.0 -
Think this might be my last opportunity to work this into the conversation...
I won the Giro PTP last year and my current postion is similar to Ryder's. Apart from the Cav shoe-ins, I'm PTP picking like a ..... person who doesn't pick very well. Another podium in any other tour looks unlikely.0 -
I can think of a number of riders who were in the limelight only once, and then not really ever again (like Jaskula, 3rd in one Tour de France) but the only not-yet-here-named GT winner I can think of, who might be considered a one-hit wonder is Ivan Gotti, one Giro GT.inkyfingers wrote:Idly thinking (don't want this to get too serious...)
Can we think of many bigger, GT one hit wonders than Ryder Hesjedal?
Obvious one is Oscar Pereiro, but his tour "win" was really just down to a lucky break, whereas Hejedal was right up there the whole race.
He did manage a 5th place at a TdF too, though.0 -
That was Agnoli. He also led the chase when Hesjedal tried to break away on that stage last week.TailWindHome wrote:Have to say the most impressive ride of the day was from the Astana domestique who already seemed done in but pulled out a great couple of k to limit the gap. If Nibs wins this he owes that man a bottle of fine wine..
He and Nibali are good friends.
There is an anecdote that in May 2011 when Agnoli thought to ask his now-wife Giovanna to marry him, he first went with her and Nibali and Nibali’s wife, Rachele, to a jeweller’s on the pretext that Nibali and Rachele were looking for a nice ring for Rachele’s mum, as present for her on her 25th wedding anniversary.
They noted which ring Giovanna liked best, and then Agnoli later went back alone and bought it as engagement ring for her, presenting it to her when he proposed.0
