Giro Stage 9 - Spoiler thread
Comments
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Paul 8v wrote:mikenetic wrote:Why do people equate being heavier with being a faster descender?
If you take technique and aero out of the equation it is true
gravity! i'm a good descender, but not as heavy as some, you also need a mad aero tuck position....
i do the first of these.... the other is andy schleck (i think) and he descends like a chickboy.
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After completely dominating the TdF last year, I am confused as to what's happening with SKY in the Giro. They seem to have turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons. WTF is going on? Where's the domination we saw at the Tour?0
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The parcours is totally different. Sky are performing exactly as their Classics squad did on the classics terrain.
Scenario: Time-gaps similar to now. Henao and Wiggins somehow ride other contenders off their wheel on a MTF. 30s gap. Final km. Henao is stronger, but would take Wiggins' 8s bonus if he goes. What occurs?...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:After completely dominating the TdF last year, I am confused as to what's happening with SKY in the Giro. They seem to have turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons. WTF is going on? Where's the domination we saw at the Tour?
Its a completely different parcours... so what did you expect?
Its a similar logic to saying "Why doesn't Mark Cavendish win the Tdf?" .. ermm well that's because the parcours doesn't suit a sprinter. Just like the Giro is less suited to a TTer.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:After completely dominating the TdF last year, I am confused as to what's happening with SKY in the Giro. They seem to have turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons. WTF is going on? Where's the domination we saw at the Tour?
Totally different parcours, for starters. Doesnt exactly play to Wiggins strengths, so their approach wouldnt have been a mirror of the Tour.
Question: what were they like at the Tour in the first few days? How many of us were banging on about them not being up at the front and keeping Wiggins out of trouble? They started dominating on Stage 7 / Planche des Belles Filles when they took the jersey, no? Then add bike changes etc on a daily basis, plus a leader crashing and who's suddenly developed the heebie-jeebies on descending in the rain. Wiggins might be looking rough, but not sure how they've all 'turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons'0 -
Yeah. Parcours or something! :shock:
Anyway, like Wiggins jacket...
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ALIHISGREAT wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:After completely dominating the TdF last year, I am confused as to what's happening with SKY in the Giro. They seem to have turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons. WTF is going on? Where's the domination we saw at the Tour?
Its a completely different parcours... so what did you expect?
Its a similar logic to saying "Why doesn't Mark Cavendish win the Tdf?" .. ermm well that's because the parcours doesn't suit a sprinter. Just like the Giro is less suited to a TTer.
Thanks for being so patronising.
Your analogy is wrong, because as well as being good at TTs, Wiggins and his cohort of super domestiques can also climb a bit...0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Yeah. Parcours or something! :shock:
Anyway, like Wiggins jacket...
Shurrup Greased...and go and spend some of your hard-earned with Rapha...
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It's also a completely different team.
No Porte, Froome, Rogers, EBH, Eisel or Cav. The experience of Rogers in particularly will be sorely missed.
You've also no longer got Yates' experience in the team car either.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Totally different parcours, for starters. Doesnt exactly play to Wiggins strengths, so their approach wouldnt have been a mirror of the Tour.
I wasn't expecting the approach to be a mirror, but the team cohesiveness and unity I expected to be the same. I don't buy the parcour being different as an excuse; Wiggins knew what he was getting in to and has trained for it. I expected more TBH.Wiggins might be looking rough, but not sure how they've all 'turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons'
See above. We've seen them perform far better. They have had such analysed, clinical approach in the past and they just seem to have fallen to pieces.
I want to see the full Team at the front dominating when they get to the high mountains.0 -
Menchov'sStabilisers wrote:It's also a completely different team.
No Porte, Froome, Rogers, EBH, Eisel or Cav. The experience of Rogers in particularly will be sorely missed.
You've also no longer got Yates' experience in the team car either.
I buy this explanation far more than 'the bumps are in a different place'.0 -
I think in the bad weather wiggins simply wanted to get through the first week without incident - he's still got a major role to play come July - and for me the shock isnt that Wiggins seemed to lose it in the descents its Nibs improved TT'ing and I must say a delight in seeing Cadel not losing the fighting spirit - still a tough 2 weeks to go; its a game of 3 halves remember The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Not much point in the team riding strongly if their leader is struggling is there? That towed him back well today even with the two mountain domestiques being left up front. I'd echo what others are saying that fitness / form wise I don't see much wrong with either Wiggins or the team (they won the TTT after all), it seems to be a confidence issue albeit a major one. I can't see Wiggins taking back significant time on Nibali in the mountains but I can still see him coming second.0
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I think Wiggo will still win.
He'll sort out the descending nerves and remember that he's probably the best climber (of the GC contenders) in the race. He could take a fair bit of time out of Nibs on the Galibier next Sunday.
I reckon he's been ill. Obviously sky deny this because if they admitted it, everyone would work to take a couple of mins out of him and end GC hopes. They're not going to burn those matches unless they KNOW it'll end him ie if he could still be OK, they wouldn't do it.
New Wiggo next week (hopefully!)0 -
Agree with Cleat
I don't think there is anything wrong with Wiggo's form, as proved in the ITT and today's stage putting in the effort to get back in the main bunch. He's not taking ANY chances on the downhill stuff, and this is causing some problems, but then he (& team SKY) didn't need to do any more than keep him in contention today, which they did. It's still early days.
As FF has already said, a missed opportunity for the other GC contenders to put some time in, but guess they are all feeling the efforts of the past few days!
Some big hills ahead and all to play for still. It's gonna be a good un 8)Share The Road Event http://www.sharetheroadride.co.uk
Lancashire Cycle Link Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/126682247491640/0 -
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That IS nice but it will probably be about three hundred quid too!Richmond Racer wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Yeah. Parcours or something! :shock:
Anyway, like Wiggins jacket...
Shurrup Greased...and go and spend some of your hard-earned with Rapha...0 -
Wiggins is an ex World Madison champion (with Cav) and has ridden enough Six Day events in the winter to know fully how to ride in a nervous bunch at full tilt so I don't buy the argument that he's unable to descend.
I suspect the issue is mental more than physical as was evidenced on the sweeping corners on the descent in yesterday's TT - I thought I was bad at going downhill!
Also, he's had a LOT of bike changes and punctures in the opening week which must be getting tiresome and won't inspire confidence in his kit. I'm wondering if Sky's batch of tubs they've brought to the Giro is to blame? To puncture in a TT shouldn't happen, especially when you've had a couple in the preceding days as well.
A day's rest couldn't come at a better time for him - it's like when tennis players get a weather break at Wimbledon and the player who was performing awfully beforehand comes out guns blazing afterwards as the guy who was cruising the win starts to fluff his shots in comparison.
3 weeks is a long time in bike racing folks......0 -
RoadPainter wrote:I think Wiggo will still win.
He'll sort out the descending nerves and remember that he's probably the best climber (of the GC contenders) in the race. He could take a fair bit of time out of Nibs on the Galibier next Sunday.
I reckon he's been ill. Obviously sky deny this because if they admitted it, everyone would work to take a couple of mins out of him and end GC hopes. They're not going to burn those matches unless they KNOW it'll end him ie if he could still be OK, they wouldn't do it.
New Wiggo next week (hopefully!)
Never heard of an illness that solely attacks your ability to descend.. You won't do a TTT and a (second part) TT like that if you got fever like Cataldo - which we must assume is the one that could have been in around the team.0 -
Great post Dolan Driver. I love it when people post with knowledge going back many years.
Madrapper buddy im not sure either. I dont think they could ever dominate the Giro - it is a race designed to be won by individual talent not a power team. But they dont look good do they. Most of their team is conspicuous by their absence, their tactics have been poor, their leader is riding very badly and they look no where near their best. I said they couldn't come and exoect to dominate and am glad they are eating humble pie. We shall see if they redeem themselves or fade further. One thing is for sure, their blinkered fans are having thirty fits every stage.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Not physically, but psychologically. If he doubts himself for whatever reason it may show through his attitude and the way he rides the bike. He seems a little ambivalent about his position – "It is what it is" – but, then again, that may be him ring-fencing the past week's performance rather than seeing it as a sign of things to come.0
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hasbeen wrote:Wiggins is an ex World Madison champion (with Cav) and has ridden enough Six Day events in the winter to know fully how to ride in a nervous bunch at full tilt so I don't buy the argument that he's unable to descend.
I suspect the issue is mental more than physical as was evidenced on the sweeping corners on the descent in yesterday's TT - I thought I was bad at going downhill!
Also, he's had a LOT of bike changes and punctures in the opening week which must be getting tiresome and won't inspire confidence in his kit. I'm wondering if Sky's batch of tubs they've brought to the Giro is to blame? To puncture in a TT shouldn't happen, especially when you've had a couple in the preceding days as well.
A day's rest couldn't come at a better time for him - it's like when tennis players get a weather break at Wimbledon and the player who was performing awfully beforehand comes out guns blazing afterwards as the guy who was cruising the win starts to fluff his shots in comparison.
3 weeks is a long time in bike racing folks......
What's so special about TTs that you won't get a p*ncture in one?0 -
hasbeen wrote:Also, he's had a LOT of bike changes and punctures in the opening week which must be getting tiresome and won't inspire confidence in his kit. I'm wondering if Sky's batch of tubs they've brought to the Giro is to blame? To puncture in a TT shouldn't happen, especially when you've had a couple in the preceding days as well.
Remember they are riding with the handicap of those melted wobbly Pinarellos, they're not popular with the techs either.
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I think he's got a case of the dreaded Andy Schleckilis. Perhaps he was infected by it when he crashed in the infamous November crash.0
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Is he? He looks leaner to me, as if he has no extra to call upon when the going gets hard.iainf72 wrote:He's also heavier than last year which might have made sense when they were preparing for the long TT, but a kilo is a kilo.
Even if he’s put on weight, that doesn't mean it's been where it’s needed.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:After completely dominating the TdF last year, I am confused as to what's happening with SKY in the Giro. They seem to have turned into a bunch of bumbling, babbling baboons. WTF is going on? Where's the domination we saw at the Tour?
Kind of wondering that myself too. Overall they still have 3 riders in the top 10 so aren't doing that badly when you look at the results. Guess the team was selected & trained for a different sort of route to the Tour but still you would expect a bit more of a cohesive team effort & sure that as we get into the high mountains perhaps will see more of the sky train of old putting pressure on the GC leader (who ever that may be) or even defending it.
I am still curious as to whats going on with Wiggo, perhaps he is ill & just wont admit it, or perhaps the form is not quite there but the time gaps don't suggest he is that far off. Am just wondering if he was saving himself for the 2nd and 3rd weeks & happened to have an unusual number of mechanicals, punctures & poor placement at key times. That toped with his fall maybe has him spooked a little.
Who knows but guess we will see on Tuesday as we have two Cat 1 climbs and the last one is the finish of the stage. Lets just hope that all that explosive climb training has paid off.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Why was Dave Millar riding on the front when Ryder was going out the back ?The UCI are Clowns and Fools0
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Ryder wasn't dropped at that point. But he must have had an idea of how poor he was feeling today so in that way it's a bit wierd.0
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ThomThom wrote:Ryder wasn't dropped at that point. But he must have had an idea of how poor he was feeling today so in that way it's a bit wierd.
Quite the day for Holy Dave. Managed to hack off his leader AND his sister, all in a few mins burst0
