Giro Stage 9 - Spoiler thread
Comments
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Islwyn wrote:Convincing myself Wiggins is playing poker. Actually he's fitter than all of them.
Perhaps that whats Wiggo is doing himself. Not really sure whats going on, unless he is sticking to the plan that is get through the first week and don't burn yourself out there?Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
hows that going?Islwyn wrote:Convincing myself Wiggins is playing poker. Actually he's fitter than all of them.
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Stage 9 Results
RUS 1 BELKOV, Maxim (KATUSHA) 4:31:31
COL 2 BETANCUR GOMEZ, Carlos Alberto (AG2R LA MONDIALE) + 44
COL 3 PANTANO, Jarlinson (COLOMBIA) + 46
SWE 4 LUDVIGSSON, Tobias (ARGOS-SHIMANO) + 54
AUS 5 EVANS, Cadel (BMC RACING) + 1:03
ESP 6 INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Benat (MOVISTAR TEAM)
ITA 7 DI LUCA, Danilo (VINI FANTINI - SELLE ITALIA)
ITA 8 SANTAMBROGIO, Mauro (VINI FANTINI - SELLE ITALIA)
ITA 9 CARUSO, Damiano (CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING)
ITA 10 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA PRO TEAM)
General Classification after Stage 9
ITA 1 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA PRO TEAM) 34:19:31
AUS 2 EVANS, Cadel (BMC RACING) + 29
NED 3 GESINK, Robert (BLANCO PRO CYCLING) + 1:15
GBR 4 WIGGINS, Bradley (SKY PROCYCLING) + 1:16
ITA 5 SCARPONI, Michele (LAMPRE-MERIDA) + 1:24
COL 6 HENAO MONTOYA, Sergio Luis (SKY PROCYCLING) + 2:110 -
Vino'sGhost wrote:
hows that going?Islwyn wrote:Convincing myself Wiggins is playing poker. Actually he's fitter than all of them.
He made need a tablet or 10, for that."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Get David Duffield back alongside Kelly 8)0
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i think the irish guy is very good. at least he describes the race not last nights sausages 0
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Well I think we can all agree that the first week has gone completely off plan for Sky. Most of us think Wiggins has had a nightmare and looked anything but a GC winner.But on the other hand, it looks like there are now only 4 contenders left. Nibs, Cuddles, Wiggins and Scarponi.
Of them, Nibali looks the outstanding rider. Scarponi is an outside bet, Cuddles is getting on a bit and Wiggins is basically only looking weak going downhill. Very few GTs are won downhill. If we took into account the shocking amount of time Mr Wiggins has lost due to inattention and nervous descending, he's obviously got some legs on him as he'd be at least 1 min up if he wasn't riding like Zuelle wearing an eye-patch.
At the start of the race I said I thought he looked a few pounds over race weight and wondered if he was expecting to race into peak form, with a view of doing the double. He still looks a little less ripped than 2011/2012, so bearing in mind there's some utterly evil climbs in the final week, being within striking distance of Nibali isn't a disaster.
I reckon he'll lose 30 seconds to bonifications, gain 1min on the mountain TT, so he needs to break Nibs for 1min to win. Certainly doable...0 -
Vino'sGhost wrote:i think the irish guy is very good. at least he describes the race not last nights sausages
That's what i meant....Would we really want "Its a bit black over the back of Bill's mothers" or Sack,cloths and ashes back :P0 -
Vino'sGhost wrote:i think the irish guy is very good. at least he describes the race not last nights sausages
I actually like to know what the regional food/history/colour is. I miss the raving old nutter a bit...0 -
Well played, Belkov!
I think some people have a rule-of-thumb that smaller riders/lightweights can't descend well. If you look who's been considered a good descender in the last decade or more, probably Pantani was the only small guy.DeadCalm wrote:I don't know from where Sean Kelly has got the idea that Betancur is a poor descender. He's not.
But that doesn't mean the rule-of-thumb is right. And I would have thought Kelly knew better.0 -
The weather forecast for weds/thurs onwards suggests more rain and thunderstorms.
Has anyone noticed that Brad can't ride in the wet before?
I seem to remember him coming 2nd in a prologue in the rain last year (Paris Nice?) despite most of the field riding in the dry.0 -
I really hope Wiggins will come back and bite Evans, Nibali and the likes. How they did not take more advantage of this is baffling.0
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ThomThom wrote:I really hope Wiggins will come back and bite Evans, Nibali and the likes. How they did not take more advantage of this is baffling.
Didn't fancy stacking it? Nibs must have left some arse-skin on the road yesterday. Cuddles has lost a number of races due to gravity failures.0 -
ThomThom wrote:I really hope Wiggins will come back and bite Evans, Nibali and the likes. How they did not take more advantage of this is baffling.
Cant see him dropping Nibali on his form.....tho i did think that big Ryder Howsyerdoll looked strong 5 days ago
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Wiggins will be pleased to get that out of the way. Suffered again but didn't lose any time, in fact gained on Hejdesel. However 9 days in and he has played 8 "get out of jail" cards. Can't have many left.....
Day off tomorrow. He'll spend most of it praying for good weather for the rest of the tour.
As for the rest, Cadel Evans looks back to something near his best. Good to see. Nibs is in the chair. I think we are going to see Kazakstan Railways running a full service up the mountains. They will have looked at Sky last year, and thought "we can do that". Will be interesting if this is seen as "boring", or a "sound way to defend a lead and win a GT" by the Radaratti.0 -
knedlicky wrote:Well played, Belkov!
I think some people have a rule-of-thumb that smaller riders/lightweights can't descend well. If you look who's been considered a good descender in the last decade or more, probably Pantani was the only small guy.DeadCalm wrote:I don't know from where Sean Kelly has got the idea that Betancur is a poor descender. He's not.
But that doesn't mean the rule-of-thumb is right. And I would have thought Kelly knew better.
Not so much little person = poor descender as little person can't go as fast because of weight and so tend to lose some time on the descents when descending with heavier guys. Cunego is little and he's a good descender.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Wasnt able to watch this stage but it sounded good. What I don't understand is that Wiggins sounded in big trouble but at the end of the stage he lost...nothing. Fail by the other GC contenders.Contador is the Greatest0
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frenchfighter wrote:Wasnt able to watch this stage but it sounded good. What I don't understand is that Wiggins sounded in big trouble but at the end of the stage he lost...nothing. Fail by the other GC contenders.
Not a fail, more a combination of they couldn't push it to extend the gap without risking crashing themselves and Wiggins riding hard to get back into the main group with about 5 of his team mates helping him.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:knedlicky wrote:Well played, Belkov!
I think some people have a rule-of-thumb that smaller riders/lightweights can't descend well. If you look who's been considered a good descender in the last decade or more, probably Pantani was the only small guy.DeadCalm wrote:I don't know from where Sean Kelly has got the idea that Betancur is a poor descender. He's not.
But that doesn't mean the rule-of-thumb is right. And I would have thought Kelly knew better.
Not so much little person = poor descender as little person can't go as fast because of weight and so tend to lose some time on the descents when descending with heavier guys. Cunego is little and he's a good descender.
Simoni always looked pretty handy downhill - he was dinky. Cunego makes up for what he lacks vertically, horizontally -he's quite chunky. Contador always looks pretty handy downhill, but that may be because he gets illegal assistance from packing a pair of outsized balls...0 -
Has anyone noticed that Brad can't ride in the wet before?
Giro prologue 2010?0 -
Gazzetta67 wrote:Vino'sGhost wrote:i think the irish guy is very good. at least he describes the race not last nights sausages
That's what i meant....Would we really want "Its a bit black over the back of Bill's mothers" or Sack,cloths and ashes back :P
hahaha no but it seems others have forgotten the spectacular awfulness of the latter duffield period 0 -
Above The Cows wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Wasnt able to watch this stage but it sounded good. What I don't understand is that Wiggins sounded in big trouble but at the end of the stage he lost...nothing. Fail by the other GC contenders.
Not a fail, more a combination of they couldn't push it to extend the gap without risking crashing themselves and Wiggins riding hard to get back into the main group with about 5 of his team mates helping him.
Agree with FF. Definite fail. When Miller came to the front 30k(?) or so out, I felt that Astana had the opportunity to go full gas and lay some time into Wiggo. Not sure why they chose not to. I suspect they were following "Plan A", i.e. stage before rest day ride within themselves. Not able to take the on road decision to give it some when they realised that Wiggo was struggling again.0 -
Anyone care to remember the 2010 Giro? Evans and Vino slugged it out in the first week and suffered badly in the end - Basso came back to win after losing something like 6 minutes. There's still a long way to go.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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Quite!
From Podium Cafe - Vaughters 8:40am via Twitter for iPhone
"Well, on to plan B in the Giro. Rest on the rest day, then figure out how to liven up the race for the 2nd half."0 -
Yes, Simoni is a good example to disprove the rule-of-thumb, Cunego maybe moreso (he’s not really chunky, he only weighs 58 kg - although I understand how he suggests this, for a bloke he’s pretty wide-hipped, I think).powerbookboy wrote:
Simoni always looked pretty handy downhill - he was dinky. Cunego makes up for what he lacks vertically, horizontally -he's quite chunky. Contador always looks pretty handy downhill, but that may be because he gets illegal assistance from packing a pair of outsized balls...Above The Cows wrote:
Not so much little person = poor descender as little person can't go as fast because of weight and so tend to lose some time on the descents when descending with heavier guys. Cunego is little and he's a good descender.knedlicky wrote:Well played, Belkov!
I think some people have a rule-of-thumb that smaller riders/lightweights can't descend well. If you look who's been considered a good descender in the last decade or more, probably Pantani was the only small guy.DeadCalm wrote:I don't know from where Sean Kelly has got the idea that Betancur is a poor descender. He's not.
But that doesn't mean the rule-of-thumb is right. And I would have thought Kelly knew better.
I don’t consider Contador small, The others named here are all 1.70 m or shorter and he’s up towards 1.80 m if not quite that tall.
One trick is that smaller riders, having less body surface area creating air resistance to begin with, can also easier 'tuck' themselves in more, thus have yet less surface area. I do and on long sweeping descents can comfortably out-distance those with 15-20 kg more weight.0 -
powerbookboy wrote:Simoni always looked pretty handy downhill - he was dinky. Cunego makes up for what he lacks vertically, horizontally -he's quite chunky. Contador always looks pretty handy downhill, but that may be because he gets illegal assistance from packing a pair of outsized balls...
Cunego is still pretty lightweight though, coming in at 58kg. Not the lightest but pretty light. Evans is another one. Former MTB'er surely helps. Obviously all pros have amazing bike handling abilities and a better than average sense of balance but I wonder if those great descenders, whatever their size are blessed with just an innate ability based on excellent balance and co-ordination? Of course these things can be improved through practice but some people just have really good skills in this area and some people (my husband for example, clumsy klutz extraordinaire) really bad ones.
Being slower on a descent because of a gravitational disadvantage is not the same as being a bad descender. For example having a gravitational disadvantage may mean you concentrate on improving your descending and to make up time lost through skill.
Basically I'm not sure there really is a rule. There may be an apparent correlation between size/weight and descending ability but that does not equate to causation. I think I posted on an earlier thread that we do not have perfect knowledge in this area because we never get to see half the peloton descend. We often see littler riders descending because climbers are often little and so we can say whether they are good or not. However, this does not mean that a small climber who is a poor descender is a poor descender because they are small. There could be a small rider in the grupetto (Cav say, OK not Cunego light but not a hulk either) who is an amazing descender but we don't get to see that.Correlation is not causation.0 -
powerbookboy wrote:Well I think we can all agree that the first week has gone completely off plan for Sky. Most of us think Wiggins has had a nightmare and looked anything but a GC winner.But on the other hand, it looks like there are now only 4 contenders left. Nibs, Cuddles, Wiggins and Scarponi.
Of them, Nibali looks the outstanding rider. Scarponi is an outside bet, Cuddles is getting on a bit and Wiggins is basically only looking weak going downhill. Very few GTs are won downhill. If we took into account the shocking amount of time Mr Wiggins has lost due to inattention and nervous descending, he's obviously got some legs on him as he'd be at least 1 min up if he wasn't riding like Zuelle wearing an eye-patch.
At the start of the race I said I thought he looked a few pounds over race weight and wondered if he was expecting to race into peak form, with a view of doing the double. He still looks a little less ripped than 2011/2012, so bearing in mind there's some utterly evil climbs in the final week, being within striking distance of Nibali isn't a disaster.
I reckon he'll lose 30 seconds to bonifications, gain 1min on the mountain TT, so he needs to break Nibs for 1min to win. Certainly doable...
Gesink?0
