Paris - Roubaix *spoiler*

milton50

ThomThom wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

It's first and foremost a bike race. The chance for spectators to watch cyling close up comes second. So the onus is surely always on the spectator to leave enough room and respect the fact that there is a race going on.

I'm not sure what happened in this specific case; whether Stybar was anticipating a spectator moving out or was actually hit by a spectator, but in principle, as long as the rider is riding within the rules then it's up to the spectator to give him enough room.

Why not smash a fence up on the entire road like they have done on Arenberg and kill every single bit of atmosphere while we are at it?

No you're quite right I'm sure if the crowd were behind a piece of tape they would be absolutely silent.

Might as well just keep it as it is now then, eh?

I don't want tapes or fences to be put up (although if they were it pretty obviously wouldn't kill the atmosphere), I just don't think a cyclist should get the blame when a spectator wants to get within a few millimetres of their face and ends up ruining their race.

thomthom

EKIMIKE wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

I'm sorry you are not having it but that's simply how it is. The weakest and fatigued riders ride in the gutter as the resistence is no where near as tough as on the top of the pavee. Rolf Sorensen has just spend 6 hours on danish tv telling exactly why the riders do it. It's much harder to ride on the top of the pavees but the risks are minimal compared to the edges. You'd think he knows his stuff, eh?!

So Cancellara was weak was he? Vanmarcke too? And Stybar? Vandenbergh?

They do it to gain an advantage. To make the race a little easier. Chavanel made a point of riding up alongside Cancellara on the tops just after Arenberg - look where he finished today.

This is a race. No matter how much logic we throw at this, the racers will still try and gain every tiny bit of advantage they can.

They were all hammered, yes?

Of course they do it to gain an advantage - how did you figure that out?.. I've just used two pages trying to explain that it's easier to ride the edges but with more risks. Spectators are part of the race. Always has been. If they want to take shortcut by riding the pavees like that, then don't blame the spectators when it fails.

And I'm still waiting for that reply on the previous page. Somehow I think you'll fail to deliver that one as well...

dolan_driver

In the Tour of Flanders, the riders will ride on the rain drains at the side of the cobbled sections or even on the pavement, in amongst the spectators. It is something you are guarenteed to see in any Belgian cobbled race.

In Paris-Roubaix, if it's a flat surface and between the ditches, the riders will try to ride over it if it is smoother than the cobbles. That includes the dirt areas and grass verges at the side of the cobbled sections. If you're a spectator here, you have to watch out and be prepared to jump out of the way, if necessary. This is a bike race, not X-Factor. It's about the bike riders racing, not some clown in the crowd looking for a moments fame. The guy who jumped in front of Stybar deserves a swift kick in the spuds!

DD.

EKIMIKE

ThomThom wrote:

They were all hammered, yes?

Of course they do it to gain an advantage - how did you figure that out?.. I've just used two pages trying to explain that it's easier to ride the edges but with more risks. Spectators are part of the race. Always has been. If they want to take shortcut by riding the pavees like that, then don't blame the spectators when it fails.

And I'm still waiting for that reply on the previous page. Somehow I think you'll fail to deliver that one as well...

Hahaha. You're now using my own points to say that i'm wrong? Rather you've spent two pages insisting that riding the gutter is 1) for weak riders (not knackered ones) and 2) that it is illogical and riding on the tops makes more sense. You are unbelievable.

And reply to what? I've replied to everything... In any case it's irrelevant since you have now acknowledged that it will always happen and for good reason. I'm glad you've come round to some sense.

EKIMIKE

For your benefit here it is (from page 15):

EKIMIKE wrote:

I did justify calling you on Flanders. I said they were riding for position. You disagreed, giving no good reason, simply saying it was very strange.

You tell me why Stybar would ride the cobbles whilst his two breakaway companions get through on the side saving a whole heap of energy on what is the THE definitive cobbled sector in the finale of Paris-Roubaix - the Carrefour de l'Arbre - on which year after year riders ride the side with no issues.

If you don't chance your arm in these races then it's a case of "Oh well, next year" not "Oh well there's another stage race next week". It's all or nothing.

I swear i'm having deja vu or did this exact same situation happen in the Flanders thread, where i had to point out what you had failed to read, before you got all high and mighty?

No_Ta_Doctor

Polite request to EKIMIKE and ThomThom to pack it in please.

I'm hoping to see some analysis of the actual race/tactics rather than having the thread dragged into the gutter...

rick_chasey

Well no humiliating sig for me buf not as straightforward as expected. Radioshack were surprisingly weak.

Want to make a comment about the double double but no time. Will do later.

EKIMIKE

Sorry. It's is annoying isn't it.

The big tactical mishap of the day for me was Terpstra (and Eisel and Boom but they clearly didn't have good enough legs anyway) hanging around like a limpet on Fabu's wheel whilst he pulled off a great bluff.

Vanmarcke rode a great race, similar to Roelandts in Flanders. I'm looking forward to seeing Stybar in future editions! OPQS have found another great foil for Boonen - desperately needed with Chava getting on a bit.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Well no humiliating sig for me buf not as straightforward as expected. Radioshack were surprisingly weak.

Want to make a comment about the double double but no time. Will do later.

With regard to the double double - it just emphasises how infrequently Cancellara and Boonen have properly gone head to head with both on form.

Monty Dog

When you're riding this terrain hard you are focussed on the terrain in front of your wheel, not looking out for numpty spectators - anyone whose ridden those roads knows there's no single line, but a constant switching between the crown and the gutter to find the best lines. Spectators know it too and it's their prerogative to get out the way if needed - particularly the a$$hole with the camera who took-out Stybar.

EKIMIKE

True dat Rich!

Anyone else think that if both on top form Cancellara would have the edge on the hellingen in Flanders but Boonen would live with Fabu in Roubaix, but outsprint him in the velodrome?

frenchfighter

Oh my. What class. Oh my.

Glad I am a Fabu backer and really pleased he can take a third stone home.

He played that one to perfection and showed tactical prowess as well as power. Was worried that Sep would have him in the sprint but not so.

Brilliant race.

Paris-Roubaix 2013 Results
SUI 1 CANCELLARA, Fabian (RADIOSHACK LEOPARD) 5:45:33
BEL 2 VANMARCKE, Sep (BLANCO PRO CYCLING)
NED 3 TERPSTRA, Niki (OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP) + 31
BEL 4 VAN AVERMAET, Greg (BMC RACING)
FRA 5 GAUDIN, Damien (EUROPCAR)
CZE 6 STYBAR, Zdenek (OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP) + 39
NED 7 LANGEVELD, Sebastian (ORICA GREENEDGE)
ESP 8 FLECHA GIANNONI, Juan Antonio (VACANSOLEIL-DCM)
NOR 9 KRISTOFF, Alexander (KATUSHA) + 50
FRA 10 TURGOT, Sébastien (EUROPCAR)
AUS 11 HAUSSLER, Heinrich (IAM CYCLING)
AUT 12 EISEL, Bernhard (SKY PROCYCLING)
BEL 13 WYNANTS, Maarten (BLANCO PRO CYCLING)
NED 14 BOOM, Lars (BLANCO PRO CYCLING)
DEN 15 BRESCHEL, Matti (SAXO-TINKOFF)
BEL 16 LEUKEMANS, Björn (VACANSOLEIL-DCM)
FRA 17 CHAINEL, Steve (AG2R LA MONDIALE)
NED 18 TJALLINGII, Maarten (BLANCO PRO CYCLING)
FRA 19 CHAVANEL, Sylvain (OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP)
BEL 20 VANDENBERGH, Stijn (OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP)
ITA 21 PAOLINI, Luca (KATUSHA) + 1:00
ITA 22 POZZATO, Filippo (LAMPRE-MERIDA) + 2:52
USA 23 PHINNEY, Taylor (BMC RACING) + 3:13
GER 24 SIEBERG, Marcel (LOTTO BELISOL)
NED 25 SINKELDAM, Ramon (ARGOS-SHIMANO)
FRA 26 LE BON, Johan (FDJ) + 3:17
FRA 27 MONDORY, Lloyd (AG2R LA MONDIALE)
GER 28 DEGENKOLB, John (ARGOS-SHIMANO) + 3:29
FRA 29 PETIT, Adrien (COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS)
GER 30 WAGNER, Robert (BLANCO PRO CYCLING)
ITA 31 GUARNIERI, Jacopo (ASTANA PRO TEAM)
ITA 32 SABATINI, Fabio (CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING)
GER 33 KLUGE, Roger (NETAPP - ENDURA)
SUI 34 SCHÄR, Michael (BMC RACING)
NOR 35 HUSHOVD, Thor (BMC RACING)
NED 36 VEELERS, Tom (ARGOS-SHIMANO)
ESP 37 VENTOSO ALBERDI, Francisco José (MOVISTAR TEAM)
BEL 38 KEISSE, Iljo (OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP)
ITA 39 BANDIERA, Marco (IAM CYCLING)
FRA 40 MALACARNE, Gael (BRETAGNE - SECHE ENVIRONNEMENT)
SUI 41 ELMIGER, Martin (IAM CYCLING)
FRA 42 HINAULT, Sébastien (IAM CYCLING)
BEL 43 ROELANDTS, Jurgen (LOTTO BELISOL)
BEL 44 DE BACKER, Bert (ARGOS-SHIMANO)
FRA 45 MINARD, Sébastien (AG2R LA MONDIALE)
BEL 46 KEUKELEIRE, Jens (ORICA GREENEDGE)
NOR 47 BOASSON HAGEN, Edvald (SKY PROCYCLING)
GER 48 THURAU, Bjorn (EUROPCAR)
RUS 49 GUSEV, Vladimir (KATUSHA) + 3:32
BEL 50 VAN SUMMEREN, Johan (GARMIN SHARP)
GBR 51 STANNARD, Ian (SKY PROCYCLING)
AUS 52 HAYMAN, Mathew (SKY PROCYCLING)
NZL 53 ROULSTON, Hayden (RADIOSHACK LEOPARD) + 6:07
BEL 54 DEVOLDER, Stijn (RADIOSHACK LEOPARD) + 6:11
BEL 55 STEEGMANS, Gert (OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP)
POL 56 BODNAR, Maciej (CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING)
BEL 57 BOECKMANS, Kris (VACANSOLEIL-DCM)
USA 58 FARRAR, Tyler (GARMIN SHARP) + 8:37
ESP 59 ROJAS GIL, Jose Joaquin (MOVISTAR TEAM) + 10:27
GRE 60 TAMOURIDIS, Ioannis (EUSKALTEL EUSKADI)

Lars Bak not even on that list.

Sky nowhere, oh well. Money doesn't buy wins in the Classics, passion and power does. G-man also needs to practice not crashing so much.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Money doesn't buy wins in the Classics, passion and power does.

I don't imagine Cancellara's doing this for peanuts. And Vanmarke left Garmin for a better paycheck.

frenchfighter

rick_chasey

Podium for terpstra is a big result for him.

Re the double double (twice in a row), why do people think it's the case? We already have Rich's ideas.

It's curious.

EKIMIKE

frenchfighter wrote:

G-man also needs to practice not crashing so much.

He needs an experienced head like Flecha showing/telling him where to ride... oh wait!

It's only positioning though. No doubt Thomas will learn - evidently the hard way.

frenchfighter

Vandernberg crash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pd7yME86Nk

Stybar crash and proper cyclo-cross skills to stay upright just before 2mins:
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozon ... ar_Happert

I would be pretty damn scared bombing along within inches of the spectators!

milton50

Rick Chasey wrote:

Podium for terpstra is a big result for him.

Re the double double (twice in a row), why do people think it's the case? We already have Rich's ideas.

It's curious.

It's just so happened that in the last few years when one of them has been on form the other has either been completely out of form or ill or crashed out.

The only exception to that was Flanders in 2011 when Canc finished third and Boonen fourth (I think).

I think the last time both of them were in decent form for both races was 2010 when Canc was outstanding.

frenchfighter

Cancellara is such a legend.

1 more monument win and he equals Boonen and Bartali on 7.

Rik Van Looy has 8, Kelly, Coppi and Girardengo have 9, de Vlaeminck has 11 and Merckx has an incredible 19!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_cycle_races

milton50

frenchfighter wrote:

Cancellara is such a legend.

1 more monument win and he equals Boonen and Bartali on 7.

Rik Van Looy has 8, Kelly, Coppi and Girardengo have 9, de Vlaeminck has 11 and Merckx has an incredible 19!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_cycle_races

It's now 7-5 to Boonen in terms of the Roubaix+Flanders total. Still not sure that Boonen will be ahead by the time they both retire.

thomthom

EKIMIKE wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

They were all hammered, yes?

Of course they do it to gain an advantage - how did you figure that out?.. I've just used two pages trying to explain that it's easier to ride the edges but with more risks. Spectators are part of the race. Always has been. If they want to take shortcut by riding the pavees like that, then don't blame the spectators when it fails.

And I'm still waiting for that reply on the previous page. Somehow I think you'll fail to deliver that one as well...

Hahaha. You're now using my own points to say that i'm wrong? Rather you've spent two pages insisting that riding the gutter is 1) for weak riders (not knackered ones) and 2) that it is illogical and riding on the tops makes more sense. You are unbelievable.

And reply to what? I've replied to everything... In any case it's irrelevant since you have now acknowledged that it will always happen and for good reason. I'm glad you've come round to some sense.

Your interpretation of 'weak' is obviously not the same as mine.

Riding on the tops DOES makes more sense. This is not my words. This is the words of a pundit, an ex-rider with 20-odd years on bike - but what does he know anyway? EKIMIKE from Bristol would know better, obviously.

You said I had no clue what a cobbled classic was about and I asked you to enlighten me on the matter. I'm still waiting on that.

And last week? - when you 'politely' called my review of Flanders 'Bullshit' and failed to respond (and with use of such a 'nice' word to describe your disagreement you surely must have had something to say) after the majority, in fact, agreed with me that is was a poor race.

I will follow No tA Doctor's advice - but I'm not going to ignore replies calling my posts (and even me) all kinds of pathethic things without you having the ability to actually aloborate where the disagreement lies.

I'm more than happy to have a discussion and - of course - not everyone agrees with me (some do, some don't as can be read in the last couple of pages as well) but this is just too easy.

You're on it again aren't you :roll:
Utter rubbish. Do you really understand the cobbled classics? I don't think you do.

EKIMIKE

2010 was also the last time Fabu did the double - Boonen was arguably not his normal self.

I guess the real question is why are those to so dominant. I guess they simply have class and weapons like no-one else. No-one else has a sprint like Boonen after an already classy 250km (Sagan will probably get there though). Whilst no-one else can ride Oude Kwaremont or the Muur like Fabu.

It's pure speculation but I think Boonen on top form would have been with Sagan and Roelandts at Flanders but would have beaten Fabu and Vanmarcke today in a sprint. That said I also think today would have been very different had Boonen been racing. Not so much Flanders.

blazing_saddles

frenchfighter wrote:

Vandernberg crash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pd7yME86Nk

Stybar crash and proper cyclo-cross skills to stay upright just before 2mins:
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozon ... ar_Happert

I would be pretty damn scared bombing along within inches of the spectators!

Worth watching again. See what is presumably a camera, flying across the cobbles.
Oh and all 3 "weak" riders, riding in the same verge.

frenchfighter

rick_chasey

Gets into their heads doesn't he??

thegibdog

No tA Doctor wrote:

I'm hoping to see some analysis of the actual race/tactics rather than having the thread dragged into the gutter...

Vanmarcke made a big tactical mistake by not having someone hand him a track bike with disc and tri-spoke whilst Cancellara was playing about doing trackstands.

Great win by Cancellara. Felt sorry for Vanmarcke, he rode a strong race but was just out-played by (a slightly fresher) Cancellara in the end. Gutted for Stybar too - yes he was taking a risk, but so were all the other riders - must be horrible for him thinking what might have been.

Rundfahrt

Cancellara played it smart, he did a lot of work, but did not just tow everyone. When it became clear that is what was going to happen he dropped back. He gave a dig on Sep and when it didn't crack him right away he made Sep do plenty of the work. In the end he played it perfectly.

thomthom

frenchfighter wrote:

Brilliant

alihisgreat

Ted King's Strava for the race: http://app.strava.com/activities/47709314

inkyfingers

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Money doesn't buy wins in the Classics, passion and power does.

I don't imagine Cancellara's doing this for peanuts. And Vanmarke left Garmin for a better paycheck.

Never heard of Mapei then Frenchie?

As Iain said earlier (I think), the biggest reason Sky haven't succeeded in the classics is because they haven't signed any top classics riders. Stannard, Hayman, Eisel, Thomas and EBH are all very good riders, but none of them are even close to the likes of Boonen or Cancellara.

Anyway, enough Sky. It was a really good last 50KM, classic Roubaix stuff. Great ride from Cancellara of course, best man won, but Vanmarcke was also fantastic, with a few more years experience I think he could win it.

Only downside was that we didn't get to see what Stybar could have done, could certainly have made it a more complicated finale for Cancellara with two guys to watch.