The Secret Pro
Comments
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I'm not sure how TSP can get annoyed at Astana's superhuman performances and be so ambiguous with Contador's ride. Contador, let's not forget, was riding damaged and still managed to contain the 'doped up' Vino fiends. Which either implies Contador is equally or more juiced, or Astana simply showed the group superiority that camping up Tiede for weeks at a time produces?
Has pharmacological superiority just been replaced by financial superiority?
FWIW I thought the Giro looked pretty "human". Lots of people having bad days is much better than ranks of impervious robots smashing it for hours on end.0 -
Riders have always looked for excuses when they under-perform. Suspicion of doping is one of the first ports of call. It's not really any different to footballers blaming the referee.
That said, whoever TSP is, he isn't the only one muttering
http://www.crankpunk.com/blogs/crankpunk/item/862-giant-alpecin-s-head-coach-kenma-says-astana-power-is-evidence-of-a-peloton-a-deux-vitesses.htmlWarning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
If there's cycling 'a deux vitesse' - and I think there is - then the cause is money not doping. Giant are a low budget team and they spend their money on two riders and support for them. There was no talk of 'deux vitesse' when Degenkolb was bagging two Monuments or Kittel was looking unstoppable. And they can barely afford to keep those two. The rest of their team is cheap filler, so no wonder they struggle.Riders have always looked for excuses when they under-perform. Suspicion of doping is one of the first ports of call. It's not really any different to footballers blaming the referee.
That said, whoever TSP is, he isn't the only one muttering
http://www.crankpunk.com/blogs/crankpunk/item/862-giant-alpecin-s-head-coach-kenma-says-astana-power-is-evidence-of-a-peloton-a-deux-vitesses.html
The big budget teams can spend money on ten top 20 GC guys all earning more money than Giant's best GC guy (Barguil?). And those with money and organisation, like Etixx or Sky, can challenge in every race they enter.
In every team sport, money is the main key to success.Twitter: @RichN950 -
If there's cycling 'a deux vitesse' - and I think there is - then the cause is money not doping. Giant are a low budget team and they spend their money on two riders and support for them. There was no talk of 'deux vitesse' when Degenkolb was bagging two Monuments or Kittel was looking unstoppable. And they can barely afford to keep those two. The rest of their team is cheap filler, so no wonder they struggle.Riders have always looked for excuses when they under-perform. Suspicion of doping is one of the first ports of call. It's not really any different to footballers blaming the referee.
That said, whoever TSP is, he isn't the only one muttering
http://www.crankpunk.com/blogs/crankpunk/item/862-giant-alpecin-s-head-coach-kenma-says-astana-power-is-evidence-of-a-peloton-a-deux-vitesses.html
The big budget teams can spend money on ten top 20 GC guys all earning more money than Giant's best GC guy (Barguil?). And those with money and organisation, like Etixx or Sky, can challenge in every race they enter.
In every team sport, money is the main key to success.
You're completely blind to it. Doping is a major problem in cycling.0 -
Giant DS comments were discussed when they came out. Just a stupid comment from a DS of a team that were wasting space by being in the race. They finished at the bottom of the team ranking.Contador is the Greatest0
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If there's cycling 'a deux vitesse' - and I think there is - then the cause is money not doping. Giant are a low budget team and they spend their money on two riders and support for them. There was no talk of 'deux vitesse' when Degenkolb was bagging two Monuments or Kittel was looking unstoppable. And they can barely afford to keep those two. The rest of their team is cheap filler, so no wonder they struggle.Riders have always looked for excuses when they under-perform. Suspicion of doping is one of the first ports of call. It's not really any different to footballers blaming the referee.
That said, whoever TSP is, he isn't the only one muttering
http://www.crankpunk.com/blogs/crankpunk/item/862-giant-alpecin-s-head-coach-kenma-says-astana-power-is-evidence-of-a-peloton-a-deux-vitesses.html
The big budget teams can spend money on ten top 20 GC guys all earning more money than Giant's best GC guy (Barguil?). And those with money and organisation, like Etixx or Sky, can challenge in every race they enter.
In every team sport, money is the main key to success.
You're completely blind to it. Doping is a major problem in cycling.
OK. Joel, you think the major factor is drugs, I think it's money.
You like fantasy cycling games, so let's play a game. We'll both pick teams on one of them for the Tour. Now, I'll increase your team's points advantage by 25% to represent a doping advantage. However, I get three times the budget you do. Let's see who wins.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Two doping positives released today but were no names - Rusvelo rider for hgh in out of comp and Southeast rider for epo in Turkey.Contador is the Greatest0
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There were names. The Southeast one was utter garbage Panamanian who is probably the worst rider at Pro Conti level and has clearly paid for his spot on the team. The Rusvelo rider is some Katusha reject.Two doping positives released today but were no names - Rusvelo rider for hgh in out of comp and Southeast rider for epo in Turkey.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Based on the Giro, cycling's doping is a major problem. Contador humped what we're told was a hugely hopped-up Astana for 2 mins, entirely on his own. Not credible....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0
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Based on the Giro, cycling's doping is a major problem. Contador humped what we're told was a hugely hopped-up Astana for 2 mins, entirely on his own. Not credible.
Quite.
And I don't doubt that money also helps.
It'll be very interesting when nighttime testing comes in.0 -
" wrote:It'll be very interesting when nighttime testing comes in.
Won't happen.
TSP's thing here seems to be some people rode a bike faster than others so they must be dodgy. Is he saying because most people were suffering most people are clean?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Based on the Giro, cycling's doping is a major problem. Contador humped what we're told was a hugely hopped-up Astana for 2 mins, entirely on his own. Not credible.
With a climbing performance below what he has achieved in the past (Ferrari). So Astana vs one man somehwat sub-par Contador and getting within 2mins of him. Definitely not credible.Contador is the Greatest0 -
I remember looking at the actual number of finishers for this race but can't remember exactly, just that it was far more than other recent Giros.Contador is the Greatest0
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There were names. The Southeast one was utter garbage Panamanian who is probably the worst rider at Pro Conti level and has clearly paid for his spot on the team. The Rusvelo rider is some Katusha reject.Two doping positives released today but were no names - Rusvelo rider for hgh in out of comp and Southeast rider for epo in Turkey.
No-names as to the calibre of rider, rather than no names as to the identity of the riders. I think.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Oh yeah. Good point.
There were names. The Southeast one was utter garbage Panamanian who is probably the worst rider at Pro Conti level and has clearly paid for his spot on the team. The Rusvelo rider is some Katusha reject.Two doping positives released today but were no names - Rusvelo rider for hgh in out of comp and Southeast rider for epo in Turkey.
No-names as to the calibre of rider, rather than no names as to the identity of the riders. I think.Twitter: @RichN950 -
after what happened with astana last year i am surprised so many are defending them, as for bertie he dislocated his shoulder and still pi$$ed it having had pressure put on him by his manager/owner that says it all IMO0
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Surprised it was a Southeast rider testing positive though...Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0
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after what happened with astana last year i am surprised so many are defending them, as for bertie he dislocated his shoulder and still pi$$ed it having had pressure put on him by his manager/owner that says it all IMO
Don't think anyone is defending them. As with any team I'm happy to listen to any serious allegations, but 'they look like they're cycling dead fast' simply doesn't cut it.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
I'm not defending them. I'm objecting to the flawed reasoning that makes out that their performance was somehow extraordinary. It wasn't. It was a strong team riding to its level. He has supported his opinions with information that is verifiably false.after what happened with astana last year i am surprised so many are defending them,Twitter: @RichN950 -
I thought all the way through the race how little support Bertie got from his own team, it was as if he was actually riding for Astana. But to beat the whole Astana team by 2 minutes? Too kool.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
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I thought all the way through the race how little support Bertie got from his own team, it was as if he was actually riding for Astana. But to beat the whole Astana team by 2 minutes? Too kool.
2 minutes gained in a time trial."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Ah the old, 'won a race, ergo must be on drugs' argument.
One day we'll have a race when nobody wins.
Then we'll know it's clean.0 -
Ah the old, 'won a race, ergo must be on drugs' argument.
One day we'll have a race when nobody wins.
Then we'll know it's clean.
We've got 7 of those, non? And now there was no doping in them!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621689#p19621689]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Ah the old, 'won a race, ergo must be on drugs' argument.
One day we'll have a race when nobody wins.
Then we'll know it's clean.
We've got 7 of those, non? And now there was no doping in them!
Touché.0 -
Unless the SP is throwing some complete red herrings...
and assuming it is an actual rider (and one only) and that he's an English speaker (and possibly / probably Australian)...
There's only one rider from the Giro who fits the above and is old enough to have ridden with Wiggins as a junior. He took a walloping pretty much every single day as well - except for the TTT stage 1.
Step forward Brett Lancaster (who has been touted before for this I think).0 -
Unless the SP is throwing some complete red herrings...
and assuming it is an actual rider (and one only) and that he's an English speaker (and possibly / probably Australian)...
There's only one rider from the Giro who fits the above and is old enough to have ridden with Wiggins as a junior. He took a walloping pretty much every single day as well - except for the TTT stage 1.
Step forward Brett Lancaster (who has been touted before for this I think).
On a quick look he talks about 3 races that he did. (there are probably others)
2015 Giro
2013 Tour Down Under
2013 Tour of Beijing.
Only 2 English natives did those 3 races. Durbridge and Hansen. Not English speaking, but good enough speaker I think. Eisel was also at all 3 races.Scott Addict 2011
Giant TCR 20120 -
Unless the SP is throwing some complete red herrings...
and assuming it is an actual rider (and one only) and that he's an English speaker (and possibly / probably Australian)...
There's only one rider from the Giro who fits the above and is old enough to have ridden with Wiggins as a junior. He took a walloping pretty much every single day as well - except for the TTT stage 1.
Step forward Brett Lancaster (who has been touted before for this I think).
Good call0 -
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Rode for Milram didn't he?
Wore the pink jersey after a night time prologue that finished on a carpet in 2005 n'all. Riding for, I think, CCC Polsat"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Unless the SP is throwing some complete red herrings...
and assuming it is an actual rider (and one only) and that he's an English speaker (and possibly / probably Australian)...
There's only one rider from the Giro who fits the above and is old enough to have ridden with Wiggins as a junior. He took a walloping pretty much every single day as well - except for the TTT stage 1.
Step forward Brett Lancaster (who has been touted before for this I think).
On a quick look he talks about 3 races that he did. (there are probably others)
2015 Giro
2013 Tour Down Under
2013 Tour of Beijing.
Only 2 English natives did those 3 races. Durbridge and Hansen. Not English speaking, but good enough speaker I think. Eisel was also at all 3 races.
I've re-read what he wrote about the 3013 TDU - it could be seen as being cleverly written so as to not actually state 'I rode the 2013 TDU' - he talks about it being more like training for a lot of guys etc. - He could well have been about riding with the team before and after the race but not actually riding it.0
