Puerto trial

dimspace

frenchfighter wrote:

There is also the possibility that Hamilton was wrong about the rider he was accusing. It doesn't seem far fetched that he was basically just going on rumours himself. So even if the rider was Cancellara, it doesn't mean he is 'luigi'. As far as I am aware these Puerto riders are not going to a room together and socialising.

most of the puerto riders rode for three teams, so names would have been fairly well known, and they frequently bumped into each other near his "surgery" prior to meeting him.

i like fabian, but i guess he was doing what the rest were. We just have to accept that and figure out how to fix it. Hell, weve all seen one of our favourites busted at some time or other. Millar, Vino, etc etc

this is interesting, an interview with him in german discussing caffeine, and more, worth a read
http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/sport/uebersi ... -1.9870576

inkyfingers

ddraver wrote:

Canc is one of the riders on a list of whom if they were revealed as dopers, Id find it very difficult to continue watching this sport...

Nah, I get around it by not trusting any of them as far as I can throw them.

I hate doping and i want to see it eradicated, but i still look back fondly on watching races full of guys I know were juiced to the eyeballs. The 2003 Tour was probably one of the dirtiest in the sports history, but it was still a great race.

frenchfighter

dimspace wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

There is also the possibility that Hamilton was wrong about the rider he was accusing. It doesn't seem far fetched that he was basically just going on rumours himself. So even if the rider was Cancellara, it doesn't mean he is 'luigi'. As far as I am aware these Puerto riders are not going to a room together and socialising.

most of the puerto riders rode for three teams, so names would have been fairly well known, and they frequently bumped into each other near his "surgery" prior to meeting him.

i like fabian, but i guess he was doing what the rest were. We just have to accept that and figure out how to fix it. Hell, weve all seen one of our favourites busted at some time or other. Millar, Vino, etc etc

this is interesting, an interview with him in german discussing caffeine, and more, worth a read
http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/sport/uebersi ... -1.9870576

Interesting link. Not seen him talk like that before and didn't know he had missed two whereabouts.

inkyfingers

Frenchie, nice of you change your avatar back to Fabs to celebrate him getting dropped in the Tour of Qatar!

dimspace

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting link. Not seen him talk like that before and didn't know he had missed two whereabouts.

Well having spoken to a couple of Germans, it seems this interview is almost identical to a section at the back of his German language autobiography, and this information is well known in germany.

just spent an hour trawling the net for English coverage of it, and this has never as far as I can find been picked up by the English speaking press. Surprised that nobody like Susan Westermeyer at CN who lives in Germany picked up on it. On the other hand, the time it came, the press was pretty much in dont rock the boat mode.

Funny how times change, if Fabian gave that interview now there would be alarm bells ringing and fire engines and ambulances rushing to the scene.

ddraver

No sorry, I can't separate one from the other like you frenchie, that's like watching a husband beat up his wife but.standing back and enjoying it because he's got an excellent punching technique and its and exciting fight. Or its like repeatedly taking back a partner that cheats in you, there comes a point where you are the idiot.

I dont like being lied to over and over again and I'm not prepared to support a sport that does so...

ddraver

I ll edit t spelling when I get to a computer - tick

LeicesterLad

dimspace wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting link. Not seen him talk like that before and didn't know he had missed two whereabouts.

Well having spoken to a couple of Germans, it seems this interview is almost identical to a section at the back of his German language autobiography, and this information is well known in germany.

just spent an hour trawling the net for English coverage of it, and this has never as far as I can find been picked up by the English speaking press. Surprised that nobody like Susan Westermeyer at CN who lives in Germany picked up on it. On the other hand, the time it came, the press was pretty much in dont rock the boat mode.

Funny how times change, if Fabian gave that interview now there would be alarm bells ringing and fire engines and ambulances rushing to the scene.

Very interesting interview! I've never seen him talk like that before...and as for his missed whereabouts, how did that not get any press?

ddraver

Could I read the translation, Dutch hasnt taught me any german!

Thanks

frenchfighter

ddraver wrote:

No sorry, I can't separate one from the other like you frenchie, that's like watching a husband beat up his wife but.standing back and enjoying it because he's got an excellent punching technique and its and exciting fight. Or its like repeatedly taking back a partner that cheats in you, there comes a point where you are the idiot.

I dont like being lied to over and over again and I'm not prepared to support a sport that does so...

You misunderstand. I will support him until there is proper and real proof. Not turning on him based on speculation. Even in the case where he was dirty at some point in his career, I would still have respect for his racing. Just like many do for Pantani and various others.

frenchfighter

ddraver wrote:

Could I read the translation, Dutch hasnt taught me any german!

Thanks

Copy the article and paste it into a translation website.

ddraver

A proper translation - so we don't get the same thing that's happened above with people doing that with Spanish websites eh smarty pants?

prawny

inkyfingers wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Canc is one of the riders on a list of whom if they were revealed as dopers, Id find it very difficult to continue watching this sport...

Nah, I get around it by not trusting any of them as far as I can throw them.

+1

There is literally no one that could get busted that would put me off cycling. I just don't personally invest anything into any particular rider. Especially not one that wins anything. One of the plus points of being british I suppose.

flite

Sorry if I'm being dim, but is there any news coming out of the Puerto trial at the moment?
I tend to lurk and rely on this forum for a summary of what's going on. Thanks

ddraver

frenchfighter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

No sorry, I can't separate one from the other like you frenchie, that's like watching a husband beat up his wife but.standing back and enjoying it because he's got an excellent punching technique and its and exciting fight. Or its like repeatedly taking back a partner that cheats in you, there comes a point where you are the idiot.

I dont like being lied to over and over again and I'm not prepared to support a sport that does so...

You misunderstand. I will support him until there is proper and real proof. Not turning on him based on speculation. Even in the case where he was dirty at some point in his career, I would still have respect for his racing. Just like many do for Pantani and various others.

I do understand, but I can't respect his racing when he's cheating.

Richmond Racer

I'm starting to get to the stage where I'm almost anesthetised - or anesthetising myself - to it being proven that more and more big name riders doped in the past. I'm expecting it really. Thinking about this overnight, I've concluded that there are a couple of things that I could really do without:

Interviews like Hamilton's where he drops these kinds of hints - and people are condemned by the power of the internet within an hour (and yes I know I found that article and posted that link to the Cancellara quote - I dont think I'll concern myself with doing that again so quickly). I would much rather wait until there's a confession or an authority or team-led investigation

The way most people are so quick to condemn and almost avaricious in 'hunting someone down' (I'm not specifically talking about BR, its all over the place). It shows one of the less pleasant aspects of the human character, almost revelling in the more sordid side of our sport. And to dress this up as 'only wanting the truth so that the sport can start to heal?' Nah. Dont try to paint it up as altruisism, or try to put lipstick on it. For many its something else altogether, almost a 'gotcha! bagged another!' level of glee

frenchfighter

Flite wrote:

Sorry if I'm being dim, but is there any news coming out of the Puerto trial at the moment?
I tend to lurk and rely on this forum for a summary of what's going on. Thanks

I think it has got quieter and people are realising that it is all about 'public health' so the likelihood of revelations about dopers will be slim. I was going to check today for more info myself and will let you know. I know that Hamilton and Contador have to appear some time in Feb - both may be interesting.

LutherB

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/02/ ... ies_274314

DOHA (VN) — Fabian Cancellara (RadioShack-Leopard) denied alleged links to Eufemiano Fuentes, the doctor at the center of Operación Puerto, on Friday. On Thursday, rumors spread after a Tyler Hamilton interview that he was “Luigi” in Fuentes’ list of code names.

“No,” Cancellara said when asked if he ever visited Fuentes.

Cancellara spoke to a small group of journalists as he pinned on his number before stage 6 of the Tour of Qatar on Friday. He explained that it is better not to go into the details and make bigger stories when asked if he would say to the critics, “I’m clean.”

“To go into the details will make bigger stories, because then there’s more and more and it starts the avalanche. It affects me, it affects the team, it affects the sponsors,” said Cancellara. “I heard from Tim [Vanderjeugd] our press officer yesterday. He said, ‘Hey, it’s just a weird world now.’”

The world of cycling is busy cleaning house. Since 1998, the Festina Affair, Operación Puerto, Armstrong and other doping cases and accusations have filled the headlines.

In May 2011, Tyler Hamilton publicly admitted to doping and helped the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency in its investigation that finally proved Armstrong guilty of years of doping.

Hamilton has spoken out about doping since, including giving an interview this week to Cyclingnews.com. In that interview, he recalled a story from the 2008 Amgen Tour of California, where his Rock Racing teammates intimidated a rider for making comments about them and their links to Puerto. They called him “Luigi,” his alleged Fuentes code name.

Cancellara criticized Hamilton and his teammates ahead of that Amgen Tour. Overnight, the online world erupted with allegations, linking Cancellara to “Luigi” and to Fuentes.

“No. No,” Cancellara said when asked if Hamilton and his Rock Racing teammates intimidated him.

He explained that the incident did not happen.

“It sounds like the people who’ve doped or done something are now saying, ‘we are going against this one. This one never had something,’” said Cancellara. “I see this on Twitter. On the other hand, I don’t care because I know my direction and I stand up for the right things in this sport. That’s why I’m saying that we ware going to have better possibilities. But, when we always do the same, we are not going to go forward.”

Cancellara said that he tries to remain “unaffected,” despite his name being mentioned.

“Somehow it affects me, but just because it makes me angry that something like that came out. That bothers me the most,” said Cancellara. “There’s so many names. It’s like with Alberto [Contador], they say AC is Alberto Contador. [Prosecutors cleared Contador of involvement in the case. –Ed.] In the end, it’s definitely not my problem.”

The Puerto trial started in late January in Madrid. As of now, the judge has blocked Fuentes from naming his clients, who Fuentes said includes athletes from cycling, soccer, tennis, and boxing. The World Anti-Doping Agency is urging Spain to push Fuentes for the names.

Unlike other cyclists who close their doors with a “no comment” to journalists, Cancellara freely gave his time as he prepared for the Qatar stage. He explained that people might connect “Luigi” to him via his former trainer, Luigi Cecchini. Like Michele Ferrari, Cecchini trained under the godfather of EPO doping, Francesco Conconni.

He met Cecchini in his years with team Saxo Bank, but said that the information exchange was about “performance, not doping performance.”

Some interesting things in there:

He explained that it is better not to go into the details and make bigger stories when asked if he would say to the critics, “I’m clean.”

“To go into the details will make bigger stories, because then there’s more and more and it starts the avalanche. It affects me, it affects the team, it affects the sponsors,” said Cancellara. “I heard from Tim [Vanderjeugd] our press officer yesterday. He said, ‘Hey, it’s just a weird world now.’” :?

tailwindhome

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters

Ok, I didn't want to tell anyone, but I named my dog Luigi. Which is odd for a female Wheaten Terrier, but there you have it. Luigi.

LutherB

Hehehe, and my cat is now called Classicomano

chrisday

Richmond Racer wrote:

The way most people are so quick to condemn and almost avaricious in 'hunting someone down' (I'm not specifically talking about BR, its all over the place). It shows one of the less pleasant aspects of the human character, almost revelling in the more sordid side of our sport. And to dress this up as 'only wanting the truth so that the sport can start to heal?' Nah. Dont try to paint it up as altruisism, or try to put lipstick on it. For many its something else altogether, almost a 'gotcha! bagged another!' level of glee

^ This +1,000,000. RR, please award yourself some form of prize - this is the whole thing, in a nutshell, eloquently put.

Well done - please take the rest of the day off

bigmat

LutherB wrote:

He explained that it is better not to go into the details and make bigger stories when asked if he would say to the critics, “I’m clean.”

“To go into the details will make bigger stories, because then there’s more and more and it starts the avalanche. It affects me, it affects the team, it affects the sponsors,” said Cancellara. “I heard from Tim [Vanderjeugd] our press officer yesterday. He said, ‘Hey, it’s just a weird world now.’”

You'd almost think that it would be easier to just answer "no" to that question? :?

frenchfighter

TailWindHome wrote:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters

Ok, I didn't want to tell anyone, but I named my dog Luigi. Which is odd for a female Wheaten Terrier, but there you have it. Luigi.

Is this some sort of a joke?

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters

Ok, I didn't want to tell anyone, but I named my dog Luigi. Which is odd for a female Wheaten Terrier, but there you have it. Luigi.

Is this some sort of a joke?

Given the prevalence of dog names in Puerto it probably is. Perhaps Vaughters was displaying cargo-cult rationality - mistaking the symbol for the result with no understanding of the mechanism between?

frenchfighter

If so that is poor taste but I wouldn't expect much more from that joker.

RichN95.

Have there been any codenames linked to a cat named Pongo, because I'd really like to be provisionally suspended from hockey so I don't have to go to Aberystwyth next week.

johnboy183

^^ would you deny it first? Come out fighting your accusers? Or just meekly accept the findings and come clean to years of dodgy practices?

RichN95.

johnboy183 wrote:

^^ would you deny it first? Come out fighting your accusers? Or just meekly accept the findings and come clean to years of dodgy practices?

I'll do a 'Mancebo' and announce my retirement - with the possibility of changing my mind later.

(Booking a trip to Vienna last week just adds to my guilt if you ask me)

mididoctors

ddraver wrote:

Canc is one of the riders on a list of whom if they were revealed as dopers, Id find it very difficult to continue watching this sport...

hmmm bit naive me thinks ...I suspect you are in for disappointment there

jerry3571

Just a side issue; I did hear an article on the radio where a Racehorse from the USA was tracked down to a Meat Factory in Europe. Racehorses are suppose to be full of naughties so could we be apologising to Mr Contador for not eating Steak but instead eating his favourite brand of Beef Lasangne from his local Supermarcado??