Puerto trial

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  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    So would a TRC process help?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    I have never seen a proper allegation of doping against Cancellara by people whose opinion I would trust.

    Would struggle to find anything on google or anything on the doping reference sites.

    The guy is a legend and vocal anti dopers but that would certainly be a huge blow to the sport. I don't think there is anything in it.

    --

    I seriously believe this guy Hamilton is just out for the money and the attention. All he does is leak snippets. If he cared and had any balls he would not say 'a prominent rider' but name him. Although I suppose that could be Cnews deliberately not giving a name.

    --

    People say that Bartoli is 'luigi'

    And RaceRadio on Cnews forum mentioned about rumours of Cancellara and 'Luigi'

    However, NRC (I think) have been told that Dekker was 'Classicomano Luigi' by various sources. That is fairly recent also. That being said I don't think Dekker started the ToC in 08, however not sure about that, and I suppose there are other US races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_USA_C ... ional_Tour).

    You could say that the name 'luigi' was given due to those working with him.
    Checcini worked with in 2002-2006: Bartoli, Basso, Cancellara, Cipollini, Cunego, Thomas Dekker, Gerdemann, Hamilton, Petacchi, Ullrich
    I guess you could link those to Puerto then take out those whose names are known then take out those who didnt race in US that year.

    --

    There is also the possibility that Hamilton was wrong about the rider he was accusing. It doesn't seem far fetched that he was basically just going on rumours himself. So even if the rider was Cancellara, it doesn't mean he is 'luigi'. As far as I am aware these Puerto riders are not going to a room together and socialising.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    Agree Frenchiw (fancy that!) I don't think anyone is damming Canc yet*, merely opining that it would be a massive blow if it was discovered that he was doping/doped

    *spot the difference with...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    FF, Luigi is Cancellara - now there's a cat among the pigeons :wink:
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Cancellara has always been cleaner than clean soit would be a real blow but not that big a surprise if he was a doper. Hope it isn't true and so far there aren't really any sources other than a few people on forums linking the two
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Tyler Hamilton interview 'outing' Cancellara http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/exc ... -hamiltonf
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,104
    Cancellara doesn't need traditional doping, he has this;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    edited February 2013
    Again, he does nt actually out Canc at all does he (if I read the right one - CN page has crashed!)

    Edit - no he doesnt...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Micron, Is that your 'source' for your post just above? That link is what is posted on the previous page and I have referred to it in my post.

    If you have further source info please post up, cheers.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Be interesting to know if Cancellara is the only rider who complained to the press at that race.

    It's also possible that Hamilton's referring to someone else and has misremembered the incident in some way.

    Hmmm - there doesn't seem to be a clutching at straws smiley...

    Clutching_at_straws_by_dirtypaintbrush.gif
  • bipedal
    bipedal Posts: 466
    Re. spartacus, one word: Riis
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    Ohhhh, I'm really not enjoying this :(
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Apologies FF, didn't see that. I will see what other links I can dig up.

    ddraver - not explicitly, no. That's where a bit of simple research comes in and produces this http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/02/ ... tart_72391
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Cool, thanks.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    micron wrote:
    Apologies FF, didn't see that. I will see what other links I can dig up.

    ddraver - not explicitly, no. That's where a bit of simple research comes in and produces this http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/02/ ... tart_72391

    You mean there is a suggestion that Hamilton may have been talking about Cancellara, although he will not confirm or deny this. That is not the same as CANCELLARA IS LUIGI!

    See the difference? Just in case you ve forgotten...
    micron wrote:
    FF, Luigi is Cancellara - now there's a cat among the pigeons :wink:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    I'm guessing it's possible Hamilton doesn't actually know who Luigi is but is just guessing it's Cancellera or has heard rumours and decided that was good enough to have a go back for what Cancellera said about them.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yeah, it's what I said above. The more I think about it the more I think it is possible.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    Fuentes must have been crap then, because Cancellara was much better without him than with him.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bipedal
    bipedal Posts: 466
    edited February 2013
    RichN95 wrote:
    Fuentes must have been crap then, because Cancellara was much better without him than with him.

    Oh I dunno, he was pretty tasty at the '06 Paris Roubaix...

    when you look back at CSC's '06 results (Schleck's Amstel, Basso's Giro, Voigt's Tour of Germany) it's hard (impossible?) to believe that the entire team weren't juiced given what we now know about some of those performances and the pharmaceutical death-match cycling had become at that point
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Many of Fuentes clients were coached by Cecchini.

    Cecchini didn't get himself mucky but the riders worked with an operational guy.

    Dekker, Basso, Ullrich etc.

    There is a big chinned beast on that list too
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Cicilismo 2005 says they identified Cancellara as Luigi in 2006 http://ciclismo2005.blogspot.co.uk/2013 ... luigi.html

    Cancellara = Luigi
    Dekker - clasicomano Luigi
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    Can someone who can speak Spanish interpret how and what they did to establish that for us please?

    Much appreciated...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • KieranHardman
    KieranHardman Posts: 63
    I read the interview. My Spanish is rusty but seems to revolve around an interview with Cancellara some years ago about his relationship with Cecchini. Again my spanish is rusty and Google translate makes it works but there is a hell of a lot of insinuation and writers opinions added into the transcripts after it happened.

    Also the evidence seemed to be that he had 3 peaks to his season. Think it also mentions that he was outed by El Pais as clasicomano Luigi and not ciclismo? Need to check El Pais...
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    hmmm, you re not learning much here Micron are you....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Hey DD. Rather than just cause problems and tell people they are wrong or talking shite, how about you provide some information that can be useful to other people on this forum.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    bipedal wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Fuentes must have been crap then, because Cancellara was much better without him than with him.

    Oh I dunno, he was pretty tasty at the '06 Paris Roubaix...

    when you look back at CSC's '06 results (Schleck's Amstel, Basso's Giro, Voigt's Tour of Germany) it's hard (impossible?) to believe that the entire team weren't juiced given what we now know about some of those performances and the pharmaceutical death-match cycling had become at that point

    O'Grady winning Roubaix...
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • KieranHardman
    KieranHardman Posts: 63
    Ah ok. Staring at it makes more sense. Its insinuating that his success at CSC in a team with Riis and Basso, and the fact that he had multiple peaks to the season means that he was doping. The dips in the season coincided with training alongside Cecchini on their own. It also mentions the manner of his TT domination after periods of not racing as evidence that something isnt right. It also links his assertion that his main training block at the start of the year is training with Cecchini and that training at the start of the season is what Fuentes has subsequently advocated.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    edited February 2013
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Hey DD. Rather than just cause problems and tell people they are wrong or talking shite, how about you provide some information that can be useful to other people on this forum.

    Oh ho Wow! Where did that come from?!

    Did tn think it was that different to understand really but linking that Cancellara said X and because a mystery rider that some thought might have been the mysterious "Luigi" said something similar to X does not prove that Cancellara is the mystery rider.

    Rock Racing were hardly the most popular team in the world at that time were they? A lot of people said they should nt be racing

    Time to calm down a bit Frenchie, go and watch some Contador clips or something...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,388
    Thanks Kieran by the way...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Coach H
    Coach H Posts: 1,092
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Can hardly read it but a Fuentes doc from 05 with Milan and IG on it:

    BCVPhuqCcAAoPQ7.jpg:large

    Hey FF (genuine question, not baiting. Much :lol: ) Have you found anywhere the Puerto doc that Hamilton claims in 'Secret Race' has AC as a code name? Although AC would have to be pretty dim to use AC as a 'secret' code name.........unless using reverse psychology
    Coach H. (Dont ask me for training advice - 'It's not about the bike')

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