Seemingly trivial things that annoy you
Comments
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Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.0 -
TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.0 -
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.0 -
I think asking a British person of colour where they are from originally has been offensive for quite a while though.pblakeney said:
So is offence unfortunately.briantrumpet said:pblakeney said:
It would make life simpler if there was a fixed convention though rather than ever changing preferences.TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
Language is an ever-moving target.1 -
That's true.First.Aspect said:
I think asking a British person of colour where they are from originally has been offensive for quite a while though.pblakeney said:
So is offence unfortunately.briantrumpet said:pblakeney said:
It would make life simpler if there was a fixed convention though rather than ever changing preferences.TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
Language is an ever-moving target.
Just for clarification, is the term "person of colour" the acceptable phrase today?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.0 -
By not acknowleding the group appropriately does this also risk one failing to be seen to recognise the challenges imposwd by society of being in a particular group (by ethnicity, gender, gender identity, disability etc)?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
It's a minefield.0 -
What? No he isn't.TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Ironically, straight after posting, I glanced at Facebook, and one of my friends who is a 'person of colour' is promoting her singing group very much aimed at the a 'grouping' BB seems to be finding problematic: "People of Colour and Mixed/Dual Heritage - come, let's gather! Reclaiming song as our birthright and marinating in our togetherness and black and brown folks."
Should I be telling her she's getting it all wrong?
Mind you, I'm not sure about the 'marinating' but, but whatevs.0 -
PoC is preferred to black as it avoids excluding "mixed race", but it's not without it's critics.
I think if you use it in a sensible context it's fine.
reminds of this classic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3eINfAdBaY 0 -
Should you tell her? Probably not worth it.briantrumpet said:Ironically, straight after posting, I glanced at Facebook, and one of my friends who is a 'person of colour' is promoting her singing group very much aimed at the a 'grouping' BB seems to be finding problematic: "People of Colour and Mixed/Dual Heritage - come, let's gather! Reclaiming song as our birthright and marinating in our togetherness and black and brown folks."
Should I be telling her she's getting it all wrong?
Mind you, I'm not sure about the 'marinating' but, but whatevs.
Do I like her language? No.
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There will never be a term without its critics, hence the constant terminology gymnastics.0
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Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.0 -
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?0 -
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?0 -
You have lost me.
Who has done what and should they have done it or not?0 -
TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
I hate to break it to you, but if I suggested to my friend that I was a person of colour, she might think me a bit odd, and mistaken.
Can I talk about women as "they", or self-identifying architects as "they"? Or do I have to pretend that there aren't any groups of people whatsoever to which I don't belong, either by biology or choice (or skill).0 -
Because people have different colour skin and like it or not, as a species we start with what we can see.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Must get super confusing in the west country, because "they" is used interchangeably with "those", e.g. "I'll aave 3 sacks of they pertatoes."
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Define "women"briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
I hate to break it to you, but if I suggested to my friend that I was a person of colour, she might think me a bit odd, and mistaken.
Can I talk about women as "they", or self-identifying architects as "they"? Or do I have to pretend that there aren't any groups of people whatsoever to which I don't belong, either by biology or choice (or skill).
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
The quantity of verbal diarrhea you are forced to listen to on train journeys.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
On the language front, I recently finished an academic book on swearing called "What The F", (look away now if swearing offends you) which categorises swearing in all languages into four categories, pithily labelled "Holy, Fücking, Shït, Nïgger", i.e. blasphemy, sex, excreta, and racial. (These four categories hold for all languages.)
Specifically on the N word, she describes a very sharp distinction between the use of the N word by white people, and in writing, spelt as above, and its use by black people, as "nïgga" about 'themselves'. In the former form and usage, it ranks as one of the most offensive, but is entirely acceptable when used by black people about black people. It is, in effect, a word used by 'them' (you guessed it, I'm not black either), and the differentiation in usage acceptability is not possible without an acceptance of 'us' and 'them', in this context.
If it's not bleedin' obvious, we are also all 'we' as well, as humans, but I'd have thought that could have gone without saying. But it seems not, in the context of this conversation.0 -
What's the name for all people without blonde hair?rjsterry said:
Because people have different colour skin and like it or not, as a species we start with what we can see.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
1 -
I don't think you need to try to claim to be a person of colour, I think you need to stop lumping other people into this random category.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
I hate to break it to you, but if I suggested to my friend that I was a person of colour, she might think me a bit odd, and mistaken.
Can I talk about women as "they", or self-identifying architects as "they"? Or do I have to pretend that there aren't any groups of people whatsoever to which I don't belong, either by biology or choice (or skill).0 -
Incidentally, the whole reason that the BBC and Guardian have switched to using people of colour is because BAME was considered wrong. They have completely failed to understand why BAME was considered wrong.0
-
TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
You've lost me too. I've simply no idea what you're trying to argue. I've neither created a group, nor invented a term. I'm just being respectful of people who have chosen a term with which they are happy.
Maybe you just have a problem with the word 'they' generally, given that it implies either 'not me' or 'not us'. If that's a problem for you, I suggest you take it up with the philosophy department and the OED.0 -
Try this on why BAME has been dropped.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
You've lost me too. I've simply no idea what you're trying to argue. I've neither created a group, nor invented a term. I'm just being respectful of people who have chosen a term with which they are happy.
Maybe you just have a problem with the word 'they' generally, given that it implies either 'not me' or 'not us'. If that's a problem for you, I suggest you take it up with the philosophy department and the OED.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/uk-government-drops-use-of-bame0 -
He didn't use it or coin it BB.TheBigBean said:
Try this on why BAME has been dropped.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
You've lost me too. I've simply no idea what you're trying to argue. I've neither created a group, nor invented a term. I'm just being respectful of people who have chosen a term with which they are happy.
Maybe you just have a problem with the word 'they' generally, given that it implies either 'not me' or 'not us'. If that's a problem for you, I suggest you take it up with the philosophy department and the OED.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/uk-government-drops-use-of-bame0 -
My annoyance on that front is "a spokeperson for the [insert minority] community". These usually seem to be self-appointed or members of some small collective on the more radical side of said community. I'd be a bit annoyed if someone claimed to be a spokesperson for white, middle-aged Welshmen spouting stuff on my behalf.TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.0 -
TheBigBean said:
Try this on why BAME has been dropped.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Because he wants to learn to use "people of colour" as it is a term "they" have created. The use of "they" implies a group of people that he is not part of.First.Aspect said:
Well it's not like anyone is suggesting, "hello nice to meet you I can you are a person of colour" to break the ice, is it.TheBigBean said:
Start with the basics. Why do you need to refer to the group you are trying to create?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You are creating a group of people who you consider to not be like you and allowing a member of said group to define the entirety of the group, but this group doesn't really exist and therefore should not be labelled.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Who are "they"?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
You don't need to get used to it.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I was with you until you used my pet hate.de_sisti said:People who ask me if I was born in this country.
* Early December, a woman from Jehovah's Witness.
* Last Friday, a bloke with whom I've chatted to (on and off) for over 10 years. We used to work for the same organisation (at different times), whose nationality requirements for employment were once extremely strict (so he should have known better).
Lady said to me; "You speak such good English".
Bloke said; "You speak better than them others"
When I pressed him to tell me who those "others" were, he declined to give an answer
I said it is patronising when white people like him and the previously mentioned woman ask such questions. I said he was out-of-touch with a modern Britain, in the same way as Lady Susan Hussey.
He look very sheepishly at me when I said that to him.
These two people are from a generation where they didn't mix with people of colour, let alone have friends who have a different skin colour to them. They still think that anyone who doesn't have white skin must have been born overseas.
We did this one extensively a while ago. I still find it a strange phrase given 'coloured people' disappeared as an acceptable usage quite some time ago, but realise I just need to get used to it, if that's the preference.
It's not me who's got the choice to make about what label is acceptable to those to whom it applies (well, I can choose one they don't like, but then they won't like it, and why would I want to do that?). There are more important things to annoyed by anyway.... labels are just labels.
'They' are the people choosing labels for themselves.
What's the alternative? No 'groups' of any sort, or have some empowered authority decide labels?
I'm not sure what you object to: having groups (however loosely 'defined') or people choosing their own labels.
Where do you get the idea that Brian has created the group from?
You've lost me too. I've simply no idea what you're trying to argue. I've neither created a group, nor invented a term. I'm just being respectful of people who have chosen a term with which they are happy.
Maybe you just have a problem with the word 'they' generally, given that it implies either 'not me' or 'not us'. If that's a problem for you, I suggest you take it up with the philosophy department and the OED.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/uk-government-drops-use-of-bame
That seems to be suggesting that even more specific labelling might be useful (disaggregating smaller groups), and has no bearing on self-chosen labels or your dislike of 'them' as a term to discuss other people/groups.0
