Seemingly trivial things that annoy you
Comments
-
I'm going to get in trouble with Brian for off-topic discussion, but
Basic yes, right no.rjsterry said:
In terms of skin colour (and other visible characteristics like hair colour and type), they (your two examples) look different from the majority of the UK population and we all make assumptions based on what we can see. It's that basic.
They clearly refers to the two people in my example.Wheelspinner said:
Who are “they” and “them” in your example? Is it acceptable here because you used a singular doctor and refugee for comparison? Had there been more than one each of the HK doctors and Somalian refugees and you used whatever the collective nouns are for doctors and refugees respectively, what words in English would you have used instead of “they” and “them”?
Outcomes are completely different as is the history. The UK's historical relationship with Japan is very different to its historical relationship with Ghana.rick_chasey said:
Basically we've living with the construct of that past, and so, whether we want it to be or not PoC or not-white is still a dividing line. It's better to be aware of that, so that it can be improved, than to pretend it doesn't exist.
I'm flattered. I'm not able to clear up the extent of my skin in the game though.Jezyboy said:
The white person doesn't have skin in the game, a critical mass of the PoC community have decided that they find the term useful, so possibly it has its place.
Whereas if I was to hear an imaginary PoC saying it, I'd be more open to listening to the argument. I think ultimately my position would stay the same, but obviously it's impossible to know what their hypothetical argument is...
My position is that if members of the group want to use it, then that feels fair enough, but I do think your overall points are strong and difficult to dispute.0 -
I’m baffled by this comment. What do national relations have to do with this?TheBigBean said:Outcomes are completely different as is the history. The UK's historical relationship with Japan is very different to its historical relationship with Ghana..
0 -
My argument remains simple: if people want to label themselves under (or identify with) a vague term that they have chosen and feel happy with, then that's fine by me, despite any reservations I might have about the clunkiness of the word or phrase they choose.
It would be a completely different matter if anything were imposed.0 -
Given that race is as much a social and cultural construct as a biological fact. I don't think pretending that race doesn't exist is ideal. I'm not sure people want to have part of their identity ignored.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there should be a term to capture everyone who is not white.rick_chasey said:What’s your preferred word to use BB? Or is the argument that the term should never be used because we ought to be blind to race?
More specific grouping is also less useful on an individual basis.
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. That said, people are not, so it can be helpful to look at how different groups perform overall. Although another bugbear of mine is that the groups on ethnicity forms are not particularly suited to the modern world.
For what it is worth, when I was having a chat about my diversification skills and inability to volunteer, the phrase "person of colour" was used by the chair, and so too was "the right sort of muslim" and "Somali or whatever". It was clearly not a job I was suited for.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You brought up history.rick_chasey said:
I’m baffled by this comment. What do national relations have to do with this?TheBigBean said:Outcomes are completely different as is the history. The UK's historical relationship with Japan is very different to its historical relationship with Ghana..
0 -
Are you Lady Hussey?rjsterry said:
Given that race is as much a social and cultural construct as a biological fact. I don't think pretending that race doesn't exist is ideal. I'm not sure people want to have part of their identity ignored.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there should be a term to capture everyone who is not white.rick_chasey said:What’s your preferred word to use BB? Or is the argument that the term should never be used because we ought to be blind to race?
More specific grouping is also less useful on an individual basis.
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. That said, people are not, so it can be helpful to look at how different groups perform overall. Although another bugbear of mine is that the groups on ethnicity forms are not particularly suited to the modern world.
For what it is worth, when I was having a chat about my diversification skills and inability to volunteer, the phrase "person of colour" was used by the chair, and so too was "the right sort of muslim" and "Somali or whatever". It was clearly not a job I was suited for.0 -
Yeah, of racism?!TheBigBean said:
You brought up history.rick_chasey said:
I’m baffled by this comment. What do national relations have to do with this?TheBigBean said:Outcomes are completely different as is the history. The UK's historical relationship with Japan is very different to its historical relationship with Ghana..
PoC is still a black thing, but is preferred to black because it also takes “mixed race” for want of a better term into account.
As those with mixed heritage were also often shunned both by white communities but also black.
BAME isn’t that popular for the reason you suggest - the type of racism Asian and Middle Eastern people deal with (structural or otherwise) is different and those who are PoC feel this just lumps them together without the the nuances.
Eg in the City for example, diversity regarding Asians is much better than it is for PoC so it’s helpful to split out that from BAME.
0 -
Wikipedia does not agree with you. People of Colour is now used by the BBC and Guardian as a straight swap for BAME.rick_chasey said:
Yeah, of racism?!TheBigBean said:
You brought up history.rick_chasey said:
I’m baffled by this comment. What do national relations have to do with this?TheBigBean said:Outcomes are completely different as is the history. The UK's historical relationship with Japan is very different to its historical relationship with Ghana..
PoC is still a black thing, but is preferred to black because it also takes “mixed race” for want of a better term into account.
As those with mixed heritage were also often shunned both by white communities but also black.
BAME isn’t that popular for the reason you suggest - the type of racism Asian and Middle Eastern people deal with (structural or otherwise) is different and those who are PoC feel this just lumps them together without the the nuances.
Eg in the City for example, diversity regarding Asians is much better than it is for PoC so it’s helpful to split out that from BAME.
0 -
You've lost me, I'm afraid. Possibly I lost you first.TheBigBean said:
Are you Lady Hussey?rjsterry said:
Given that race is as much a social and cultural construct as a biological fact. I don't think pretending that race doesn't exist is ideal. I'm not sure people want to have part of their identity ignored.TheBigBean said:
I don't think there should be a term to capture everyone who is not white.rick_chasey said:What’s your preferred word to use BB? Or is the argument that the term should never be used because we ought to be blind to race?
More specific grouping is also less useful on an individual basis.
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. That said, people are not, so it can be helpful to look at how different groups perform overall. Although another bugbear of mine is that the groups on ethnicity forms are not particularly suited to the modern world.
For what it is worth, when I was having a chat about my diversification skills and inability to volunteer, the phrase "person of colour" was used by the chair, and so too was "the right sort of muslim" and "Somali or whatever". It was clearly not a job I was suited for.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Speaking of trivial things that annoy me, the use of this phrase…
Who’s version of ideal? Yours, or are alternatives allowed? It’s often used by people who assume their version of what ideal might be is the One Truth and any dissent will not be tolerated. There’s roughly 8 billion people in this world. I’d be reasonably sure a survey of what an “ideal world” might be would elicit more than one definition in reply.TheBigBean said:
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …
In any case, it doesn’t and never will exist, because if it did it would cease to be the ideal and become the real world, no?
Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
As a black man growing up with the experiences I've had, I would disagree with that statement. Throughout my life, black and mix-raced people have been treated as "not white (like us*)". But not all white people have racist attitudes.rick_chasey said:
*Predominantly white UK1 -
Given the lack of ethnic diversity in this forum, isn't it safe to say that there is a lot of assumption going on here and we are not the best placed to present a balanced argument?
Nor are we best placed to decide what terminology to use when referring to people's that are err... non-white err... ethnic minority, err... people of Colour err...BAME. It's a minefield.
It's only a minefield because we are attempting to be politically correct in the face of the threat about being called racist and are trying our best to not offend. Which is quite unfair and can put an individual in an impossible position.
Protagonists have cornered TBB in a manner that highlights the above.
News agencies, services, police etc are under enormous pressure to do the right thing or say things in the right way that it leaves most people in an impossible position of not knowing what is acceptable and what isn't.
It's unfair to label someone as racist when an individual is caught out by what was previously deemed to be acceptable when the terminology is constantly moving.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!1 -
surely the inverse of In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …Wheelspinner said:Speaking of trivial things that annoy me, the use of this phrase…
Who’s version of ideal? Yours, or are alternatives allowed? It’s often used by people who assume their version of what ideal might be is the One Truth and any dissent will not be tolerated. There’s roughly 8 billion people in this world. I’d be reasonably sure a survey of what an “ideal world” might be would elicit more than one definition in reply.TheBigBean said:
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …
In any case, it doesn’t and never will exist, because if it did it would cease to be the ideal and become the real world, no?
would be
In an ideal world everyone would be a racist
I think I will choose TBB's version of utopia over yours0 -
I don't feel cornered. I'm aware it is one those things where my view is different from others like, for example, being perfectly happy without a car.pinno said:
Protagonists have cornered TBB in a manner that highlights the above.
0 -
I think it is this bit you meant to quote.de_sisti said:
As a black man growing up with the experiences I've had, I would disagree with that statement. Throughout my life, black and mix-raced people have been treated as "not white (like us*)". But not all white people have racist attitudes.
*Predominantly white UKrick_chasey said:
As those with mixed heritage were also often shunned both by white communities but also black.0 -
Thanks.de_sisti said:
As a black man growing up with the experiences I've had, I would disagree with that statement. Throughout my life, black and mix-raced people have been treated as "not white (like us*)". But not all white people have racist attitudes.rick_chasey said:
*Predominantly white UK
I'm mainly parroting the expert in the firm I work for (where diversity is a big deal so we spend a lot of time discussing this) and she is from a mixed background.0 -
Blimey, WTAF are you on about? Exactly where did I say anything about the "inverse" of TBB's statement.surrey_commuter said:
surely the inverse of In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …Wheelspinner said:Speaking of trivial things that annoy me, the use of this phrase…
Who’s version of ideal? Yours, or are alternatives allowed? It’s often used by people who assume their version of what ideal might be is the One Truth and any dissent will not be tolerated. There’s roughly 8 billion people in this world. I’d be reasonably sure a survey of what an “ideal world” might be would elicit more than one definition in reply.TheBigBean said:
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …
In any case, it doesn’t and never will exist, because if it did it would cease to be the ideal and become the real world, no?
would be
In an ideal world everyone would be a racist
I think I will choose TBB's version of utopia over yours
I can't STAND the phrase "in an ideal world..." because It. Doesn't. F^^cking. Exist. And. Never. Will.
Is that clearer?
For what it's worth, TBB's wish that everyone is "blind to race" is (IMHO) unworkable. Try asking the medical world for example if it's an irrelevancy? (It isn't). Whether you support the technology or not, perhaps IVF programs might think it's still a worthwhile characteristic to record? Or should the prospective parents just take pot luck, eh?
I'm not remotely racist. But thanks for the assessment.
Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
Whoa, you can't disagree with Rick on the subject of race on this forum no matter what your own experiences!de_sisti said:
As a black man growing up with the experiences I've had, I would disagree with that statement. Throughout my life, black and mix-raced people have been treated as "not white (like us*)". But not all white people have racist attitudes.rick_chasey said:
*Predominantly white UK1 -
Just so I am clear, @surrey_commuter can you confirm you are calling me a racist? Or did you simply not read my earlier post correctly?surrey_commuter said:
surely the inverse of In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …Wheelspinner said:Speaking of trivial things that annoy me, the use of this phrase…
Who’s version of ideal? Yours, or are alternatives allowed? It’s often used by people who assume their version of what ideal might be is the One Truth and any dissent will not be tolerated. There’s roughly 8 billion people in this world. I’d be reasonably sure a survey of what an “ideal world” might be would elicit more than one definition in reply.TheBigBean said:
In an ideal world everyone would be blind to race. …
In any case, it doesn’t and never will exist, because if it did it would cease to be the ideal and become the real world, no?
would be
In an ideal world everyone would be a racist
I think I will choose TBB's version of utopia over yoursOpen One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
The next time someone asks me if I was born in this country, I will not be as polite with my response as I was on previous occasions.
0 -
We are catching up on the last series of The Crown (don't start), and last night there was a toe-curling line where Diana asks Martin Basheer where he's from. She didn't seem happy when he said Wandsworth.
Interestingly Lady Susan Hussey of recent racism notoriety also popped up in last nights episode. At which point it dawned on me that she's the widow of Marmaduke Hussey the then chairman of the BBC. Raging incandescently about the Basheer interview when we switched off...0 -
Almost wish I hadn't mentioned my bad back on FB... everyone telling me to go to their own osteopath/chiropractor/physio, because all of them are brilliant and will sort me out.0
-
Save your money! Industrial amounts of ibuprofen, some kind of microwavable heat pack, and try to keep moving as much as possible...1
-
Just accept it like death and taxes.1
-
Went to one of them last time, and for £100 had some stretching exercises recommended... to his credit, he didn't try to get me hooked on regular visits.0
-
The people I know who use them swear by them.briantrumpet said:Went to one of them last time, and for £100 had some stretching exercises recommended... to his credit, he didn't try to get me hooked on regular visits.
They must be good as they've been using them for years. 🤔The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Quite.pblakeney said:
The people I know who use them swear by them.briantrumpet said:Went to one of them last time, and for £100 had some stretching exercises recommended... to his credit, he didn't try to get me hooked on regular visits.
They must be good as they've been using them for years. 🤔0 -
I've used chiropractors and osteopaths several times. The first time was due to a spasm caused by what they diagnosed as a herniated disc (I hadn't got it looked at when I initially had the injury despite having to slide down the stairs on my bum as I couldn't manage walking down the steps). The initial treatment really helped and I was fine again after a follow-up. However, they then over-egged it with more appointments then referred me to their in-house rehab person who basically charge me £30 for a 15 minute core strengthening session. At that point I called it a day even though it was covered by my health insurnce as they were taking the piss. I've been a few times to others since when I've had flare ups and it does give pretty immediate relief but I only ever do a single treatment. I suspect most of it could be dealt with by the sports massage therapist I go to where I can also get my legs done and still pay less.0
-
Have you considered Yoga?briantrumpet said:Almost wish I hadn't mentioned my bad back on FB... everyone telling me to go to their own osteopath/chiropractor/physio, because all of them are brilliant and will sort me out.
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
The list of things I ought to be considering grows longer by the hour... apart from the manipulators, I've got yoga and Pilates, though noone has suggested Alexander Technique yet. Thanks though... not meaning to sound ungrateful.laurentian said:
Have you considered Yoga?briantrumpet said:Almost wish I hadn't mentioned my bad back on FB... everyone telling me to go to their own osteopath/chiropractor/physio, because all of them are brilliant and will sort me out.
I should start with considering not carrying over-heavy boxes of logs up my steps, TBH. I know I'm an idiot.0
