Drugs in other sports and the media.
Comments
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You forget Wang Junxia. According to Paula, it was a "cruel joke" when she was added to the Hall of Fame.
Also, the whole "EPO cheats out" thing was because Yegorova had got off on a technicality.
She seems happy to accuse without due process, and happy to complain when others do the same.
The entire athletics world with the exception of China and the IAAF pretty much reacted in the same way to dear Wang Junxia, and the sudden emergence from nowhere of the dominant Chinese athletes. So that's hardly noteworthy.
Jesus christ, and I dont even like Radcliffe that much0 -
I notice all those records you mention are for men.That's 2.2% quicker than anyone has ever run except her. Even larger if you don't include Kenyans.
For context here are the comparisons in other disciplines.
Rudisha is 0.2% quicker than the next fastest man at 800m
Bolt is less than 1% quicker than Gay & Blake at 100m
El Gerrouj is less than 0.2% quicker than Lagat at 1500m
Quite a performance then to beat all these known dopers by over 2.2%.
A lot of countries, including Kenya and Ethiopia, are lagging a little when it comes to gender equality. As time goes by more and more opportunities will be afforded to Women and the gap will close and eventually be eradicated.
They were the first 3 I looked at. The women's I checked and just guffawed. They can pretty much all be guaranteed as dopers. When women were men and all that.0 -
Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Outside of the common knowledge that Flo jo’s record is pretty much unattainable by any woman that’s clean, and quite a few dopers as well, what are the odds that Radcliffes record is attainable? or was it purely down to pacemaking and excellent conditions as well as her condition at the time?0
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Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
And they poo on the road too.0 -
Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
And they poo on the road too.
I wondered what you were saying - before the light bulb moment.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Horses these days are bred for top speed and then have the endurance trained into them. While the overall times may be about the same, the last few furlongs are far quicker. They just don't go as fast at the start.Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
They're equine Mark Cavendishes while previously they were Tony Martins or Cancellaras.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Horses these days are bred for top speed and then have the endurance trained into them. While the overall times may be about the same, the last few furlongs are far quicker. They just don't go as fast at the start.Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
They're equine Mark Cavendishes while previously they were Tony Martins or Cancellaras.
And that's before even considering the motors hidden in their hooves!
Perhaps trainers today should go back to the old way of training horses if a one-trick pony is faster.0 -
Horses these days are bred for top speed and then have the endurance trained into them. While the overall times may be about the same, the last few furlongs are far quicker. They just don't go as fast at the start.Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
They're equine Mark Cavendishes while previously they were Tony Martins or Cancellaras.
Are you saying also that there are Paula Radcliffe's where previously there were Red Rum's?
I'm confused me myself now.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Horses these days are bred for top speed and then have the endurance trained into them. While the overall times may be about the same, the last few furlongs are far quicker. They just don't go as fast at the start.Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
They're equine Mark Cavendishes while previously they were Tony Martins or Cancellaras.
Why not breed some Cancelleras then? Is it more efficient to ride behind another horse?0 -
The Economist explains
Why doping in sport is so hard to catch
Nov 26th 2015, 23:56 BY A.A.K.
FOR more than two decades, 50 was a kind of magic figure for cyclists in the Tour de France. That is maximum threshold for hematocrit, the percentage of oxygen-carrying red-blood cells that can be found coursing through human vessels without external help. In “The Secret Race” Tyler Hamilton, a former cyclist for the American side, likened the number to his personal stock price (“You are 43”, his doctor told him). Britain’s David Millar called it “the cyclist’s holy grail”. Breach the 50-mark and be suspended on the reasonable suspicion that you were using EPOs (erythropoietins), a red-blood-cell booster; but ride with a lower figure and risk being left behind. As of last year, 38% of all top-ten finishes in the Tour de France from 1998-2013 were found to have doped themselves with EPOs. Another analysis of 12,000 track-and-field athletes’ leaked blood results, released earlier this year, suggested that 800 or 6% were “highly suggestive of doping”. Yet each year only 1-2% of all tests result in penalties. What is the doper’s secret?
Doping, as old as sport itself, derives from the Dutch word doop, an opium stimulant consumed by ancient Greeks. Raucous crowds would come to see juiced-up athletes have a Greco-Roman go at each other. Their enthusiasm would endure and evolve. In 1889, when James "Pud" Galvin, an American baseball player, got merrily soused with a concoction made from monkey’s testicles and had a dream run, the Washington Post lauded it as “the best proof yet furnished of the value of the discovery” of a new drug’s virtue. At the start of the 20th century chemicals like cocaine, ether and amphetamines became a hit among athletes. Most of these drugs targeted the brain and reduced fatigue; later, steroids and corticoids helped build muscles. It was during the cold war, in the 1970s, that drug use escalated into a full-blown crisis. Members of the Warsaw Pact encouraged “systematic doping” of their female athletes, “often without their knowledge”, writes Brian Epstein in “The Sports Gene”. Seventy-five of the top 80 women’s shot-puts of all time, for instance, were thrown between the mid-1970s and 1990. It was a time when women gained rapidly on men in track-and-field events; doctors had discovered they could boost their performance simply by injecting them with testosterone.
It was never good for the athletes' health, but today doping like that carries the more immediate risk of detection and disqualification. The preferred method therefore is “micro-dosing”. Instead of injecting EPO subcutaneously (under the skin), risking a longer “glow time” during which they might be found out, athletes have learned to administer smaller doses directly into their veins. Marginal gains matter. The difference between the first and second place in the 100m dash in world championships held earlier this year was 0.01 seconds, faster than blink of an eye. It doesn’t help that some athletes have natural genetic mutations that give them a legitimate advantage over their peers. This quirk of biology happens to make life easier for dopers too. The most common anti-doping test is called a T/E ratio, where “T” stands for testosterone and “E” is a steroid called epitestosterone. The human body normally has equal amounts “T” and “E” in the blood. But the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) allows T/E ratios as high as 4:1, to allow for the small segment of the population who have the natural genetic variation. Hence, the ordinary-blooded athlete finds wiggle-room to dope, at least until he brushes against T/E 4:1.
To address some of these issues, the "Athlete Biological Passport" (ABP) was introduced in 2009. The passport records all of an athlete's vital physiological records to generate a baseline blood profile. Over time, an electronic trail should allow testers to see unnatural variations and sudden spikes to compare against the body’s natural ability to, say, produce red-blood cells or burn lactic acid. So far the tool appears to have worked as a deterrent. Until recently, there was no test to detect "blood doping", a method of transfusing samples of one's own refrigerated blood back into the body, to increase the red-blood-cell count. But the ABP should be smart enough to pick up on the anomalies. Since it was implemented the percentage of tests that hinted at an unusual increase in RBCs has been cut down by half: a small but significant start. Clever drugs and even cleverer ways of administering them will continue to evade testers until anti-doping agencies see more money (WADA’s budget is just $30m) and a little less corruption (tip-offs before random out-of-competition drug tests are common). Where doping is concerned, the arms race has outrun the cold war.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
'...the 100m dash...'
What is this, The Dandy?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19752765#p19752765]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:'...the 100m dash...'
What is this, The Dandy?
lol.
On another note, here's a pic of Paolini's wing mirror.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19752765#p19752765]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:'...the 100m dash...'
What is this, The Dandy?
Overselling The Economist a bit there.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19752765#p19752765]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:'...the 100m dash...'
What is this, The Dandy?
Overselling The Economist a bit there.
Adam Smith, Desperate Dan...same thing0 -
Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
What do you base that statement on? I call BS.
Looking at the classics (UK)
Fastest 1,000 Guineas: 2009 (Ghanaati)
Fastest 2,000 Guineas: 1994 (Mr Bailey)
Fastest Oaks: 1993 (Intrepidity)
Fastest Derby: 2010 (Motivated)
Fastest St Leger: 2011 (Masked Marvel)
And now the elite National Hunt races
Fastest Cheltenham Gold Cup: 2011 (The Long Run)
Fastest Cheltenham Champion Hurdle: 2001 (Istabraq)
Fastest Grand National: 1990 (Mr Frisk)It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
What do you base that statement on? I call BS.
Looking at the classics (UK)
Fastest 1,000 Guineas: 2009 (Ghanaati)
Fastest 2,000 Guineas: 1994 (Mr Bailey)
Fastest Oaks: 1993 (Intrepidity)
Fastest Derby: 2010 (Motivated)
Fastest St Leger: 2011 (Masked Marvel)
And now the elite National Hunt races
Fastest Cheltenham Gold Cup: 2011 (The Long Run)
Fastest Cheltenham Champion Hurdle: 2001 (Istabraq)
Fastest Grand National: 1990 (Mr Frisk)
Is that a complete set of the monuments, or are your cherry-picking and forgetting Peter Post's 1964 P-R?0 -
To be fair to Timoid, he's partly right. I had read an article in the Guardian saying what I said but I did some research and there's a host of intangibles from watering the Epsom course (making it slower but less injury inducing) to trainers who want to win, not set records.
Another other factor is this:
"Since so much money and time is invested in every top thoroughbred, it's not worth the extra risk to break a track record."
For a specific example, the fastest time for the Kentucky Derby was set in 1973 by Secreteriat and only beaten once since by Monarchos in 2001.
The only empirical evidence really is this by Stanford biologist Mark Denny writes in his 2008 study on the subject:
"Despite intensive programs to breed faster thoroughbreds ... despite increasing populations from which to choose exceptional individuals, and despite the use of any undetected performance-enhancing drugs, race speeds in these animals have not increased in the last 40–60 years. Thus, for horses and dogs, a limit appears to have been reached."
The limit has been reached because:
"A horse's legs can't really take the torque and pounding that a human leg can," says Castro. "It's like running on your middle finger and the hoof is the fingernail. The human foot is so complex, with multiple bones. The horse foot is one digit, one ligament, one tendon. There's a limit to what the horse can do without injuring itself."
Further:
Lastly, racehorses are bred from only six percent of the total stock, so the small gene pool, developed over the course of many generations, doesn't lend itself to significant further change.
On the subject of human advances the same author of the above says a couple of interesting things:
1. Cynics will say the difference is drugs. And although there are some performance enhancing drugs in horse racing and surely in running as well, that doesn't tell the whole story. So let's look at some other differences.
2. Olympic runners a century ago, in the Chariots of Fire era, ran on the equivalent of loose gravel. Now the tracks are so advanced that they almost feel like trampolines beneath a runner's feet. Horses run on dirt tracks, then as now.
3. And while a human leg injury can heal over time, racehorses who suffer serious leg injuries must often be put down.
In humans, advances in performance amongst many factors (drugs?, diet, scientifically based training) can be also put down to a much bigger population with the free time to do some sort of sport than it was say, 100 years ago [not my original thought].seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Race horses were averaging faster speeds in the 1930's than now, despite huge 'advances' in nutrition and the knowledge/manipulation of genetic lines.
Goes away for coffee...
What do you base that statement on? I call BS.
Looking at the classics (UK)
Fastest 1,000 Guineas: 2009 (Ghanaati)
Fastest 2,000 Guineas: 1994 (Mr Bailey)
Fastest Oaks: 1993 (Intrepidity)
Fastest Derby: 2010 (Motivated)
Fastest St Leger: 2011 (Masked Marvel)
And now the elite National Hunt races
Fastest Cheltenham Gold Cup: 2011 (The Long Run)
Fastest Cheltenham Champion Hurdle: 2001 (Istabraq)
Fastest Grand National: 1990 (Mr Frisk)
Is that a complete set of the monuments, or are your cherry-picking and forgetting Peter Post's 1964 P-R?
That's all five classics of the flat plus the most high profile chases/hurdles in the UK.
Records have been beaten in all those races many times over since the 1930s.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
coe comments to the select committee re 'declaration of war' statement:
"I will die in a ditch for the right for media groups to question my motives, to call to task the sport I'm currently head of."
Here's hoping, Seb.When a true genius appears in this world, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift0 -
coe comments to the select committee re 'declaration of war' statement:
"I will die in a ditch for the right for media groups to question my motives, to call to task the sport I'm currently head of."
Here's hoping, Seb.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm0 -
coe comments to the select committee re 'declaration of war' statement:
"I will die in a ditch for the right for media groups to question my motives, to call to task the sport I'm currently head of."
Here's hoping, Seb.
LOL!
The horse has bolted Seb, unfortunately for you that means everyone in the media thinks you are a ____ and will be out for blood.0 -
coe comments to the select committee re 'declaration of war' statement:
"I will die in a ditch for the right for media groups to question my motives, to call to task the sport I'm currently head of."
Here's hoping, Seb.
LOL!
The horse has bolted Seb, unfortunately for you that means everyone in the media thinks you are a ____ and will be out for blood.
Totes the British press vs Coe
And he only has himself to blame0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19754012#p19754012]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:coe comments to the select committee re 'declaration of war' statement:
"I will die in a ditch for the right for media groups to question my motives, to call to task the sport I'm currently head of."
Here's hoping, Seb.
LOL!
The horse has bolted Seb, unfortunately for you that means everyone in the media thinks you are a ____ and will be out for blood.
Totes the British press vs Coe
And he only has himself to blame
Yep. He will lose his career on the back of that original comment as every hack will be out to get him. And rightly so.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19752765#p19752765]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:'...the 100m dash...'
What is this, The Dandy?
lol.
On another note, here's a pic of Paolini's wing mirror. 0 -
Still can't understand why Coe is having to appear in front of a select committee though. How is the running of an international sport governing body anything to do with the UK Parliament? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's good that he's having to explain himself, but how do they have any jurisdiction?0
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Still can't understand why Coe is having to appear in front of a select committee though. How is the running of an international sport governing body anything to do with the UK Parliament? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's good that he's having to explain himself, but how do they have any jurisdiction?
Prepared to be corrected, but he doesn't and they don't. There by choice afaiu.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Coe is also Chair of the British Olympic Association and a Peer of the Realm - so I'm assuming that makes him beholden to Parliament in someway or form...0
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did anyone watch it all ? I only read the text updates on the BBC but seems they had some tough questions and he wriggled and squirmed a few times.
Did seem to highlight the main issue when he stated their budget for drug testing was either 2 or 4m a year. No wonder they are always behind the cheats0 -
did anyone watch it all ? I only read the text updates on the BBC but seems they had some tough questions and he wriggled and squirmed a few times.
Did seem to highlight the main issue when he stated their budget for drug testing was either 2 or 4m a year. No wonder they are always behind the cheats
I did the same as you and found myself thinking "is he really stupid enough not to have learned anything from Uncle Pat and the UCI?" and the answer was, quite clearly, no!Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0
