Drugs in other sports and the media.
Comments
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739886#p19739886]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739366#p19739366]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:If you look at it cold, there's plenty of rationale to dope in more or less all elite professional sports.
Given how difficult it seems to catch dopers (in any sport), and the outsized rewards at the top level, the risk/reward balance quickly tips in favour of doping. The higher the pay, the sooner people come to that conclusion.
(Let's think of it this way, if you're paying your players £200m a year, spending £10m on a high class doping regime is trump change)
It's not like it's exclusive to sport either. Plenty of corporations go through the same thought process, then the worst of the offenders get caught (VW, UBS, etc), they throw their hands up and say 'but everyone was doing it' and they're probably right.
After all, it's only a scandal when it hits the press....
Re: VW from personal/professional experience not everyone was doing it and the shock within the industry is genuine.
Don't want to derail the thread, but there aren't many cars around that give off similar levels of measured emissions in their tests and in the real world...
The complaint within the industry is that the testing (more for petrol than diesel) is not remotely representative of real world driving conditions, so you end up in an insane situation as described where engineers have to compromise to make a car that performs well in the real world and still gets high rating for emissions.
A lot of manufacturers are in the process of getting out of diesel in the next 5 years or so precisely because it is getting more and more difficult to make a car comply to emissions standards as well as deliver the efficiency and performance that the customer demands at a price they're willing to pay.
From my own experience, the amount of interminable meetings I've sat through to shave 10g of a part or work out if the overall cost of changing the shape ever so slightly of 4 or 5 parts will effect the aerodynamics enough to show a demonstrable impact on MPG tell me that my employer isn't gaming the system. Because just doctoring the ECUs would be much, much simpler and an Audi A3 weighs lots more than any car of simila size.
Ahem
Admittedly only an investigation, but that's enough to condemn in these parts...
We are on that list. If it turns out to be true, on my oath, I quit."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
The year of the Festina affair. :roll:Gary Neville's biography was quite interesting on the subject of injections and the 98 world cup.
Not sure why they needed injections, they had a Faith Healer.0 -
The year of the Festina affair. :roll:Gary Neville's biography was quite interesting on the subject of injections and the 98 world cup.
Not sure why they needed injections, they had a Faith Healer.
Come on Eileen
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I guess we should expect professional sport in its entirety to be dragged through the doping mud over the next decade.
People will look at cycling and athletics as the canaries in the mine.
And people wonder why kids are ditching cynicism for new sincerity eh?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19740644#p19740644]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:
The year of the Festina affair. :roll:Gary Neville's biography was quite interesting on the subject of injections and the 98 world cup.
Not sure why they needed injections, they had a Faith Healer.
Come on Eileen
Short back and sides please.
Though ironic that Paul Merson's entrance into the "drugs in other sports and the media" thread should be occasioned by his visit to Eileen Drewery, rather than the amount of marching powder that found its way into his nostrils.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I guess we should expect professional sport in its entirety to be dragged through the doping mud over the next decade.
People will look at cycling and athletics as the canaries in the mine.
And people wonder why kids are ditching cynicism for new sincerity eh?
I'm not sure cycling was so much "canary in the mine" as the bleeding edge avant garde of endurance doping.
The parameters were simple ("get this big boned bastard up the mountain faster") and the culture was in place for any experimental short-cut to be utilised. Plus, young Belgian wannabes in the early nineties were two-a-penny, eminently disposable. :-(
Interesting that cycling probably has the strictest controls of any sport now, you don't read much about that when Armstrong's picture is on every doping in athletics article out there.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I guess we should expect professional sport in its entirety to be dragged through the doping mud over the next decade.
People will look at cycling and athletics as the canaries in the mine.
And people wonder why kids are ditching cynicism for new sincerity eh?
I'm not sure cycling was so much "canary in the mine" as the bleeding edge avant garde of endurance doping.
The parameters were simple ("get this big boned bastard up the mountain faster") and the culture was in place for any experimental short-cut to be utilised. Plus, young Belgian wannabes in the early nineties were two-a-penny, eminently disposable. :-(
Interesting that cycling probably has the strictest controls of any sport now, you don't read much about that when Armstrong's picture is on every doping in athletics article out there.
Distance runners were on the strychnine around the time Queen Victoria was breathing her last in Osborne House, make no mistake. Competitors in both endurance sports tracked each other pretty smartly in chucking anything into their bodies from early doors onwards0 -
Russia just need to change their name to The Russia and they can carry on as normal, no?
edit: that joke might only make sense North of the Border.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19740240#p19740240]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Going back to the footy for a moment, creatine has never been on the banned list, has it? Arsene stopped using it not because it was dodgy, but because he thought that players were building too much muscle, which could be restrictive of free movement and cause added strain on joints.
Cortisone is widespread in football, as you'd expect from a sport where you get lumps kicked out of you every week. Virtually every player is carrying a little niggling injury around most of the time.I'm not sure you need a tue for it even.
If football signs the wada code, then I think you would.
My "other" sport is RL and i'm quite sure the only thing keeping widespread HGH use out of that is the fact there's sod all money in it. There's a lot of guys playing with painkilling injections, a few guys down the tree getting popped for steroids etc.
I'd be surprised if HGH isn't in reasonably widespread use in both codes to be honest, money or not. I don't like what I've seen in Union in recent years - I can put the size increase down to improved diet and off field training. Likewise with fitness levels. The problem I have is with the combination of size with speed and endurance. It just doesn't feel right and is the reason different positions used to have different builds.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19740240#p19740240]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Going back to the footy for a moment, creatine has never been on the banned list, has it? Arsene stopped using it not because it was dodgy, but because he thought that players were building too much muscle, which could be restrictive of free movement and cause added strain on joints.
Cortisone is widespread in football, as you'd expect from a sport where you get lumps kicked out of you every week. Virtually every player is carrying a little niggling injury around most of the time.I'm not sure you need a tue for it even.
If football signs the wada code, then I think you would.
My "other" sport is RL and i'm quite sure the only thing keeping widespread HGH use out of that is the fact there's sod all money in it. There's a lot of guys playing with painkilling injections, a few guys down the tree getting popped for steroids etc.
I'd be surprised if HGH isn't in reasonably widespread use in both codes to be honest, money or not. I don't like what I've seen in Union in recent years - I can put the size increase down to improved diet and off field training. Likewise with fitness levels. The problem I have is with the combination of size with speed and endurance. It just doesn't feel right and is the reason different positions used to have different builds.
In Australia I don't doubt you're right, as far as league goes."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Russia just need to change their name to The Russia and they can carry on as normal, no?
edit: that joke might only make sense North of the Border.
..or "The team formerly known as Russia".
The club that you refereed to needs drugs and lots of them.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
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But the testing protocol contributes to that as it's completely unrepresentative of real road conditions."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19741292#p19741292]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
But the testing protocol contributes to that as it's completely unrepresentative of real road conditions.
Though did the auto industry not lobby heavily for the testing protocol to be designed in the way it is?0 -
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You'd think the gap would stay constant then....
Didn't CO2 emissions get tightened over that period? Euro 3-60 -
The Russian federation's acting president Vadim Zelichenok says it will "admit some things" in its response. "We admit some things, we argue with some things, some are already fixed - it's a variety," Zelichenok told the Associated Press.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19740240#p19740240]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Going back to the footy for a moment, creatine has never been on the banned list, has it? Arsene stopped using it not because it was dodgy, but because he thought that players were building too much muscle, which could be restrictive of free movement and cause added strain on joints.
Cortisone is widespread in football, as you'd expect from a sport where you get lumps kicked out of you every week. Virtually every player is carrying a little niggling injury around most of the time.I'm not sure you need a tue for it even.
If football signs the wada code, then I think you would.
My "other" sport is RL and i'm quite sure the only thing keeping widespread HGH use out of that is the fact there's sod all money in it. There's a lot of guys playing with painkilling injections, a few guys down the tree getting popped for steroids etc.
I'd be surprised if HGH isn't in reasonably widespread use in both codes to be honest, money or not. I don't like what I've seen in Union in recent years - I can put the size increase down to improved diet and off field training. Likewise with fitness levels. The problem I have is with the combination of size with speed and endurance. It just doesn't feel right and is the reason different positions used to have different builds.
But in RU they have changed shape but can't perform for 80 minutes so it's debatable whether they're sauced or not. It's one of the most frustrating parts of the game now watching entire front rows changed after 60 minutes, locks after 65 etc.etc.Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
You'd think the gap would stay constant then....
I thinks this also comes back to what I said about teachers teaching to the exam (i.e., designing the cars with the specific intent of doing well, legally, in the tests)0 -
[quote="[...............
After watching the documentary with Kimmage who described a case of a young cyclist who's girlfriend found him dead one morning in bed, after taking EPO and of course all the LA documentaries, the administration of EPO has to be a controlled process though. Not something you do in your shed, metaphorically speaking. So if footballers are doing it, then there must be doctors to plan and orchestrate it.
These doctoring doctors must have overlapped into other sports. If what I am saying makes any sense.
Hence the Spanish being so keen to destroy Dr Fuentes's collection of blood bags which would have blown open the doping in Spanish football, and could have cost then two Euro championships and a World Cup, not to mention it exposing the doping in tennis.......[/quote]
and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football. The whole world of sport is corrupt. I can see why the Russians mention Paula Radcliffe they have dope up runners to the max and yet none of them have got near to her records0 -
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)Twitter: @RichN950 -
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
That assumes doping is only to improve fitness - there are stories abound of doping in, for example, shooting.
(though obsv Fuentes et al weren't involved in that sort of stuff).Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
That assumes doping is only to improve fitness - there are stories abound of doping in, for example, shooting.
(though obsv Fuentes et al weren't involved in that sort of stuff).
Well, shooting up...0 -
Even snooker and lawn bowls. Something to calm the nerves and or boost confidence is a match winner.
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
That assumes doping is only to improve fitness - there are stories abound of doping in, for example, shooting.
(though obsv Fuentes et al weren't involved in that sort of stuff).Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
Even snooker and lawn bowls. Something to calm the nerves and or boost confidence is a match winner.
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
That assumes doping is only to improve fitness - there are stories abound of doping in, for example, shooting.
(though obsv Fuentes et al weren't involved in that sort of stuff).
and slow down heart rate. Which is where beta blockers and the like come in0 -
Even snooker and lawn bowls. Something to calm the nerves and or boost confidence is a match winner.
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
That assumes doping is only to improve fitness - there are stories abound of doping in, for example, shooting.
(though obsv Fuentes et al weren't involved in that sort of stuff).
And finally we get to the real scandal. Professional Darts brazen abuse of pints of mild."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19741708#p19741708]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Even snooker and lawn bowls. Something to calm the nerves and or boost confidence is a match winner.
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
That assumes doping is only to improve fitness - there are stories abound of doping in, for example, shooting.
(though obsv Fuentes et al weren't involved in that sort of stuff).
And finally we get to the real scandal. Professional Darts brazen abuse of pints of mild.
Oh aye, Richie Burnett couldnt keep off the mild, especially on the toot
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/darts/345931610 -
I once went into a terrible pub in Liverpool that had a notice board for the darts team. On it was an edict from the League that read "North Merseyside Darts League will not tolerate drug use at the Oche".
The insinuation that as long as you stayed off the blow whilst you were actually throwing, they were fine with it was hilarious. Truly a sporting organisation that recognised it's boundaries."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Doping doesn't make a car or motorbike go faster. Once they've got to a certain level of fitness extra fitness or strength isn't going to make a blind bit of difference.and F1 and motoGP? both of those has spanish guys at the top the same time they were bossing the Tour, Tennis and football.
(And Valentino Rossi is Italian, not Spanish. Lorenzo and Marquez came later.)
The fitter you are at the end of a race the less likely you are about to make a stupid move that wont come off. Will also keep you more precise and keep the same line and therefore faster times at the end of a race and help on the mental side by not being so tired.
As others have said blockers etc can stop your mind from wandering too0 -
