Drugs in other sports and the media.
Comments
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He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html0 -
It was creatine wasn't it?Bear in mind all the stories of Arsene using Cortisone as a regular medication when he first arrived in England.
You're absolutely right.
http://www.wengerphysicaltherapy.com/testimonials0 -
I was considering this but noticed that LA featured front and centre in the art used to illustrate many of the pieces describing the WADA IC report.Does this mean that cycling won't be seen in such a bad light or are all sportsmen dopers guilty until (impossibly) proved otherwise?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34775001
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/34767962
Basically the scale of LA's deception goes beyond anything else. 7 back-to-back victories in an event recognised by even non-cycling fans.0 -
I was considering this but noticed that LA featured front and centre in the art used to illustrate many of the pieces describing the WADA IC report.Does this mean that cycling won't be seen in such a bad light or are all sportsmen dopers guilty until (impossibly) proved otherwise?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34775001
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/34767962
Basically the scale of LA's deception goes beyond anything else. 7 back-to-back victories in an event recognised by even non-cycling fans.
In his case it's not just the doping though, it's the whole story, the cancer, the comeback, the doping, the threats, the money, the deception, the admission.0 -
He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
Cheers ^
More recent then than I thought. I also thought that the FA was pretty rich so any equipment needed to piurchase to test for EPO would not be a problem. That should not be an excuse.
It seems that all sporting bodies should collude and share resources and information globally to make any progress.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
Cheers ^
More recent then than I thought. I also thought that the FA was pretty rich so any equipment needed to piurchase to test for EPO would not be a problem. That should not be an excuse.
It seems that all sporting bodies should collude and share resources and information globally to make any progress.
The Telegraph article is from 2004. EPO isn't easy to test for as we all know, especially in small doses. A matter of hours. Even in industrial doses it's gone in a week or two (without the ABP to help).0 -
He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
Cheers ^
More recent then than I thought. I also thought that the FA was pretty rich so any equipment needed to piurchase to test for EPO would not be a problem. That should not be an excuse.
It seems that all sporting bodies should collude and share resources and information globally to make any progress.
http://www.german-times.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1834&Itemid=740 -
He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
Cheers ^
More recent then than I thought. I also thought that the FA was pretty rich so any equipment needed to piurchase to test for EPO would not be a problem. That should not be an excuse.
It seems that all sporting bodies should collude and share resources and information globally to make any progress.
The Telegraph article is from 2004. EPO isn't easy to test for as we all know, especially in small doses. A matter of hours. Even in industrial doses it's gone in a week or two (without the ABP to help).
The date was on the top right of the screen - i.e today :oops:
After watching the documentary with Kimmage who described a case of a young cyclist who's girlfriend found him dead one morning in bed, after taking EPO and of course all the LA documentaries, the administration of EPO has to be a controlled process though. Not something you do in your shed, metaphorically speaking. So if footballers are doing it, then there must be doctors to plan and orchestrate it.
These doctoring doctors must have overlapped into other sports. If what I am saying makes any sense.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I'll read that German Times article soon.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
Cheers ^
More recent then than I thought. I also thought that the FA was pretty rich so any equipment needed to piurchase to test for EPO would not be a problem. That should not be an excuse.
It seems that all sporting bodies should collude and share resources and information globally to make any progress.
The Telegraph article is from 2004. EPO isn't easy to test for as we all know, especially in small doses. A matter of hours. Even in industrial doses it's gone in a week or two (without the ABP to help).
The date was on the top right of the screen - i.e today :oops:
After watching the documentary with Kimmage who described a case of a young cyclist who's girlfriend found him dead one morning in bed, after taking EPO and of course all the LA documentaries, the administration of EPO has to be a controlled process though. Not something you do in your shed, metaphorically speaking. So if footballers are doing it, then there must be doctors to plan and orchestrate it.
These doctoring doctors must have overlapped into other sports. If what I am saying makes any sense.
Tyler injected himself all the time. The spate of deaths were over a decade before this first article.0 -
"The spate of deaths were over a decade before this first article".
I presume long before the ability to test for it and long before anyone knew that the side effects could potentially be fatal.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Juve's doctor did a suspended sentence for doping his players "Completely without their knowledge" a few years ago too."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Going back to the footy for a moment, creatine has never been on the banned list, has it? Arsene stopped using it not because it was dodgy, but because he thought that players were building too much muscle, which could be restrictive of free movement and cause added strain on joints.
Cortisone is widespread in football, as you'd expect from a sport where you get lumps kicked out of you every week. Virtually every player is carrying a little niggling injury around most of the time.I'm not sure you need a tue for it even.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Going back to the footy for a moment, creatine has never been on the banned list, has it? Arsene stopped using it not because it was dodgy, but because he thought that players were building too much muscle, which could be restrictive of free movement and cause added strain on joints.
Cortisone is widespread in football, as you'd expect from a sport where you get lumps kicked out of you every week. Virtually every player is carrying a little niggling injury around most of the time.I'm not sure you need a tue for it even.
If football signs the wada code, then I think you would.
My "other" sport is RL and i'm quite sure the only thing keeping widespread HGH use out of that is the fact there's sod all money in it. There's a lot of guys playing with painkilling injections, a few guys down the tree getting popped for steroids etc."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[quote="[...............
After watching the documentary with Kimmage who described a case of a young cyclist who's girlfriend found him dead one morning in bed, after taking EPO and of course all the LA documentaries, the administration of EPO has to be a controlled process though. Not something you do in your shed, metaphorically speaking. So if footballers are doing it, then there must be doctors to plan and orchestrate it.
These doctoring doctors must have overlapped into other sports. If what I am saying makes any sense.[/quote]
Hence the Spanish being so keen to destroy Dr Fuentes's collection of blood bags which would have blown open the doping in Spanish football, and could have cost then two Euro championships and a World Cup, not to mention it exposing the doping in tennis.......0 -
In thirty years as a manager, I’ve never had my players injected to make them better. I never gave them any product that would help enhance their performance. I’m proud of that. I’ve played against many teams that weren’t in that frame of mind.
- National treasure Arsene Wenger, 9th October 2015A guy said: “There is only one way to live with the idea of death, it is to try and transform the present into art”. That works with what we’ve just been talking about....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19740240#p19740240]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Going back to the footy for a moment, creatine has never been on the banned list, has it? Arsene stopped using it not because it was dodgy, but because he thought that players were building too much muscle, which could be restrictive of free movement and cause added strain on joints.
Cortisone is widespread in football, as you'd expect from a sport where you get lumps kicked out of you every week. Virtually every player is carrying a little niggling injury around most of the time.I'm not sure you need a tue for it even.
If football signs the wada code, then I think you would.
My "other" sport is RL and i'm quite sure the only thing keeping widespread HGH use out of that is the fact there's sod all money in it. There's a lot of guys playing with painkilling injections, a few guys down the tree getting popped for steroids etc.
I worked and played rugby with a few guys back in the late 80's and 90's who'd played for the likes of Leigh, Oldham, Hornets and Salford. a couple of them were suffering from the effects of cortisone abuse for injuries as you describe and some were on body building steroids.
I remember going to watch Jonathan Davies turn out for the first time for Widnes against Salford. He was a fast but very small rabbit and you wouldn't have bet on his life expectancy. It was very interesting to see how his physique changed over the coming years0 -
Doping in soccer! Well I never.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/arsene-wenger-claims-doping-is-rife-in-football-34188301.html
DD.
If you drop the schadenfreude for a sec, that is a flipping massive statement from Wenger there...
He's voiced concerns about blood doping before - particularly in reference to blood values of prospective signings from certain parts of Africa iirc.
edit: nm, already been covered.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
He has often spoken about elevated blood levels in players that have transferred in.
Have never heard that. Have you got some reference to that? (I am not contradicting you, just curious).
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/wenger-suspects-imports-of-doping-27488.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
Cheers ^
More recent then than I thought. I also thought that the FA was pretty rich so any equipment needed to piurchase to test for EPO would not be a problem. That should not be an excuse.
It seems that all sporting bodies should collude and share resources and information globally to make any progress.
http://www.german-times.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1834&Itemid=74
It's a superbly written article. I often wish British journalism was similarly good.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I never used to think it was that much of an issue in football as I thought it was more of a skill based game. However, I changed my mind when watching some of the last world cup when I saw players like Robben (?) for the Netherlands, who I believe is no spring chicken skinning defenders and leaving them for dead. For me it was like watching an incredulous cycling performance.0
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I never used to think it was that much of an issue in football as I thought it was more of a skill based game. However, I changed my mind when watching some of the last world cup when I saw players like Robben (?) for the Netherlands, who I believe is no spring chicken skinning defenders and leaving them for dead. For me it was like watching an incredulous cycling performance.
Well its often been said that if the Puerto names were released then Spain wouldn't be World Cup Winners.
Back on to athletics, just seen an interview of SSN with Darren Campbell. At last a man who talks sense!0 -
It's about being fresh enough to keep deploying that skill at the end of 90 hard minutes as well as just having that skill in the first place, surely. I think that's the key point that a lot of the "skill sports" doping defenders leave out.I never used to think it was that much of an issue in football as I thought it was more of a skill based game. However, I changed my mind when watching some of the last world cup when I saw players like Robben (?) for the Netherlands, who I believe is no spring chicken skinning defenders and leaving them for dead. For me it was like watching an incredulous cycling performance.
Specially for something like tennis which can go on for hours and hours, often in hot temperatures.0 -
I never used to think it was that much of an issue in football as I thought it was more of a skill based game. However, I changed my mind when watching some of the last world cup when I saw players like Robben (?) for the Netherlands, who I believe is no spring chicken skinning defenders and leaving them for dead. For me it was like watching an incredulous cycling performance.
Or the fact that Italy's back 4 had a combined age of about 165 for most of the 1990s."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
On the cortisone effect, Tommy Smith who was one of the defenders in the great Bill Shankly Liverpool teams can barely walk due to the amount of cortisone pumped into his feet and legs.0
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It's about being fresh enough to keep deploying that skill at the end of 90 hard minutes as well as just having that skill in the first place, surely. I think that's the key point that a lot of the "skill sports" doping defenders leave out.I never used to think it was that much of an issue in football as I thought it was more of a skill based game. However, I changed my mind when watching some of the last world cup when I saw players like Robben (?) for the Netherlands, who I believe is no spring chicken skinning defenders and leaving them for dead. For me it was like watching an incredulous cycling performance.
Specially for something like tennis which can go on for hours and hours, often in hot temperatures.
And quicker recovery ahead of the next match.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19740415#p19740415]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:I never used to think it was that much of an issue in football as I thought it was more of a skill based game. However, I changed my mind when watching some of the last world cup when I saw players like Robben (?) for the Netherlands, who I believe is no spring chicken skinning defenders and leaving them for dead. For me it was like watching an incredulous cycling performance.
Or the fact that Italy's back 4 had a combined age of about 165 for most of the 1990s.
Franco Baresi alone skewed that figure seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Gary Neville's biography was quite interesting on the subject of injections and the 98 world cup.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739886#p19739886]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739366#p19739366]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:If you look at it cold, there's plenty of rationale to dope in more or less all elite professional sports.
Given how difficult it seems to catch dopers (in any sport), and the outsized rewards at the top level, the risk/reward balance quickly tips in favour of doping. The higher the pay, the sooner people come to that conclusion.
(Let's think of it this way, if you're paying your players £200m a year, spending £10m on a high class doping regime is trump change)
It's not like it's exclusive to sport either. Plenty of corporations go through the same thought process, then the worst of the offenders get caught (VW, UBS, etc), they throw their hands up and say 'but everyone was doing it' and they're probably right.
After all, it's only a scandal when it hits the press....
Re: VW from personal/professional experience not everyone was doing it and the shock within the industry is genuine.
Don't want to derail the thread, but there aren't many cars around that give off similar levels of measured emissions in their tests and in the real world...
The complaint within the industry is that the testing (more for petrol than diesel) is not remotely representative of real world driving conditions, so you end up in an insane situation as described where engineers have to compromise to make a car that performs well in the real world and still gets high rating for emissions.
A lot of manufacturers are in the process of getting out of diesel in the next 5 years or so precisely because it is getting more and more difficult to make a car comply to emissions standards as well as deliver the efficiency and performance that the customer demands at a price they're willing to pay.
From my own experience, the amount of interminable meetings I've sat through to shave 10g of a part or work out if the overall cost of changing the shape ever so slightly of 4 or 5 parts will effect the aerodynamics enough to show a demonstrable impact on MPG tell me that my employer isn't gaming the system. Because just doctoring the ECUs would be much, much simpler and an Audi A3 weighs lots more than any car of simila size.
Ahem
Admittedly only an investigation, but that's enough to condemn in these parts...0 -
The year of the Festina affair. :roll:Gary Neville's biography was quite interesting on the subject of injections and the 98 world cup.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
In thirty years as a manager, I’ve never had my players injected to make them better. I never gave them any product that would help enhance their performance. I’m proud of that. I’ve played against many teams that weren’t in that frame of mind.
- National treasure Arsene Wenger, 9th October 2015A guy said: “There is only one way to live with the idea of death, it is to try and transform the present into art”. That works with what we’ve just been talking about.
Yes, that was a truly magnificent interview. Bits of it now surfacing in the British press after arseblog got it translated.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
