Drugs in other sports and the media.
Comments
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Some pretty tough-to-read individual responses coming out of this, for instance this series of tweets from 400m runner Andrew Steele:
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
Ugh, this Russian doping thing.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
For most athletes, there’s an all too short window of ‘easy’ form. That window came for me in 2007/2008, fast times seemed to just happen.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
One of those fast times was during the final of the 4x400m at the Beijing Olympics 2008. I ran first leg as part of a team that ran 2:58.81.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
Which, on a cursory glance, looks like the fastest time to NOT win a medal in Olympic 4x400 relay.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
@Rob_Tobin, Michael Bingham, @MartynRooney and I ran an incredible race
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
But somehow, in Beijing, it was good enough only for fourth place - the famously thankless fourth place.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
Nobody would have ever expected 2:58.81 to finish outside a medal. Especially looking at the form of the main competitive nations beforehand
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
But on the night, an incredibly fast, unexpected performance came from Russia. In particular, an amazing 43 split leg by one of the Russians
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
A year or two later, without replicating that form, this athlete failed a doping test. We missed out on a medal by a fraction of a second.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
Today’s WADA report leads me to believe that this fraction of a second was earned unfairly.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
Even worse, it appears it wasn’t an individual athletes choice, but the sinister workings of a corrupt executive board.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
I long suspected something, but preferred optimism. This report certainly doesn’t inspire such a positive approach.
Andrew Steele @AndrewSteele 12h12 hours ago
2008 may well have been my only chance. What a depressing turn of events - on both a personal level, and for sport in general.0 -
Jared Tallent. Aussie race-walker cheated out of the gold medal in 2 successive Olympics - Beijing and London -by Russians who later tested positive. In the case of London, Kirdyapkin tested positive for doping before and after the London Games but was still allowed to compete thanks to collusion of the IAAF. The Russians then cherry-picked Kirdyapkin's results that were stripped, allowing him to retain the gold from London.
Tallent's appeal is due to be heard by CAS beginning of Dec.
Tallent was interviewed on R5L last night. His story actually rendered the BBC presenter speechless.0 -
James Kirkup hasn't really understood sport, has he?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/drugsinsport/11778747/Athletics-doping-crisis-is-just-another-reason-to-allow-drugs-in-sport.html"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739468#p19739468]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:James Kirkup hasn't really understood sport, has he?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/drugsinsport/11778747/Athletics-doping-crisis-is-just-another-reason-to-allow-drugs-in-sport.html
This sort of stuff comes up every time there's a doping scandal. It seems to come from people that are only ever spectators of elite sport, never competitors at any level, and never having sporting kids. Context free thinking at its worst.
There's also the hole in the argument that's big enough to drive Sky's Death Star through, that legal use of PEDs requires regulation, with a possible reward for operating outside regulation, ie cheating, which leaves us back in the same position as before.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Sebastian Coe still has a job. That's amazing. His own sport "sabotaged" our olympics, with his protection. You'd imagine that normally outspoken clean British athletes would be demanding his head on a stake. Golden silence on that front. Looks like only the sponsors can shift the stain, although Parliament might want a word about the taxpayer £ billions lavished on a scam.
- Mo Farah"I hope Seb gets the job because he can change athletics."
- GuardianSebastian Coe, the newly installed head of world athletics, has declared his total confidence in Paula Radcliffe and criticised the parliamentary select committee that forced her to defend herself against insinuations of doping....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
On the Radcliffe thing, I agree with him. Dragging athletes in then asking them if they were clean or not is not the role of a parliamentary committee and Radcliffe's probity is irrelevant to their scope of enquiry.Sebastian Coe still has a job. That's amazing. His own sport "sabotaged" our olympics, with his protection. You'd imagine that normally outspoken clean British athletes would be demanding his head on a stake. Golden silence on that front. Looks like only the sponsors can shift the stain, although Parliament might want a word about the taxpayer £ billions lavished on a scam.
- Mo Farah"I hope Seb gets the job because he can change athletics."
- GuardianSebastian Coe, the newly installed head of world athletics, has declared his total confidence in Paula Radcliffe and criticised the parliamentary select committee that forced her to defend herself against insinuations of doping."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?0 -
From the WADA press report.
"In the meantime, all samples for the Moscow Antidoping Center will now be transported securely, promptly and with a demonstrable chain of custody to an alternative WADA-accredited laboratory."
Presumably the one in Finland.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.0 -
Sure the Russian secret police could still do a good intimidation job outside their own borders!
Is this 1998 for athletics and Seb will hang the future on a new 'clean' hero?! :shock:
Will the IOC have the balls to kick athletics out of the Olympics for a cycle?! (Of course they won't!)
Will the focus soon shift to some of the other dirty sports - eg soccer?
Did the Spanish get the Fuentes blood bags destroyed in the end?0 -
Sure the Russian secret police could still do a good intimidation job outside their own borders!
Is this 1998 for athletics and Seb will hang the future on a new 'clean' hero?! :shock:
Will the IOC have the balls to kick athletics out of the Olympics for a cycle?! (Of course they won't!)
Will the focus soon shift to some of the other dirty sports - eg soccer?
Did the Spanish get the Fuentes blood bags destroyed in the end?
Yes, if they want to try that malarkey. But closing off avenues has to start somewhere.0 -
Sure the Russian secret police could still do a good intimidation job outside their own borders!
Is this 1998 for athletics and Seb will hang the future on a new 'clean' hero?! :shock:
Will the IOC have the balls to kick athletics out of the Olympics for a cycle?! (Of course they won't!)
Will the focus soon shift to some of the other dirty sports - eg soccer?
Did the Spanish get the Fuentes blood bags destroyed in the end?
Soccer has always been described as too big to fail
But for a start you have to have the likes of a Hajo Seppelt, plus a TV broadcaster (more than print or online - more impactful - and online and print can always run stories off the back of the broadcasts)...and you have to have whistleblowers like the Stepanovs who are also willing to help a journal like Seppelt with taped convos, with documentation to show collusion, to show altered information etc. And who are brave enough to risk their own safety (lets not forget that the Stepanvos are still in hiding, they are genuinely in fear of their lives)
Football have anyone like that? I mean, really like that? Because without that, you dont stand the remotest scooby of a chance of an investigation that carries any authority whatsoever. And who in FIFA would back it? Remember that IAAF's hand was forced into going with the WADA IC.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739620#p19739620]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.
I wonder if that will end up being the compromise/fudge in any event? as in Russia accept that there have been failings in the testing regime and instead of being banned or having medals stripped all of their samples have to be tested outside of Russia for the next 5 years.0 -
Whatever they do Putin will find a way.
Indeed he may. But the first thing you do is take away that lab's accreditation. Which is what they have done.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739620#p19739620]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.
I wonder if that will end up being the compromise/fudge in any event? as in Russia accept that there have been failings in the testing regime and instead of being banned or having medals stripped all of their samples have to be tested outside of Russia for the next 5 years.
Massive loss of face for the Russians. Who are at the moment, still supposed to be hosting the World Cup, plus other intl comps including the World Junior Athletics Champs next year. In all instances, the Moscow lab was supposed run all the testing.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739654#p19739654]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739620#p19739620]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.
I wonder if that will end up being the compromise/fudge in any event? as in Russia accept that there have been failings in the testing regime and instead of being banned or having medals stripped all of their samples have to be tested outside of Russia for the next 5 years.
Massive loss of face for the Russians. Who are at the moment, still supposed to be hosting the World Cup, plus other intl comps including the World Junior Athletics Champs next year. In all instances, the Moscow lab was supposed run all the testing.
It is a loss of face but it will be manipulted and politicized out of all proportion. I'm not sure how much appetite there will be for ostracizing Russia too much when there are already so many tensions with them in the Middle East.0 -
Is it really that big a loss of face? Is the average sports fan going to care if they have a lab or not?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739659#p19739659]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Is it really that big a loss of face? Is the average sports fan going to care if they have a lab or not?
To the outside world. The average sports fan is really not who Putin give a flying f*ck about
Do you think Russia have gone for the contracts to host all the many global sporting events because they care what the average sports fan thinks?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739660#p19739660]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739659#p19739659]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Is it really that big a loss of face? Is the average sports fan going to care if they have a lab or not?
To the outside world. The average sports fan is really not who Putin give a flying f*ck about
Let me rephrase. Does Putin give a toss if they have a lab, have athletes not winning or failing tests? Given he doesn't give a toss about invading sovereign states, endorsing the murder of journalists who criticise his government, jailing protestors, jailing political opponents, murdering political enemies in other sovereign states etc etc I'm not sure he's going to bat an eyelid at a bit more bribery and corruption to win hosting rights to more sporting events.
Afterall, there is no way the World Cup will change horses at this point and F1 care less about drug tests than the WWF."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739659#p19739659]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Is it really that big a loss of face? Is the average sports fan going to care if they have a lab or not?
Sport is a global idiom, it's where super powers and other first world countries go to war with each other0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739659#p19739659]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Is it really that big a loss of face? Is the average sports fan going to care if they have a lab or not?
Sport is a global idiom, it's where super powers and other first world countries go to war with each other
I'm not sure this has been true since the 1980s."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
The tory graph have an article on how it has been reported in Russia - safe to say that most newspapers havent really bothered and those that have have painted it is baseless, without evidence, a US led conspiracy against Mother Russia etc etc.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739654#p19739654]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739620#p19739620]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.
I wonder if that will end up being the compromise/fudge in any event? as in Russia accept that there have been failings in the testing regime and instead of being banned or having medals stripped all of their samples have to be tested outside of Russia for the next 5 years.
Massive loss of face for the Russians. Who are at the moment, still supposed to be hosting the World Cup, plus other intl comps including the World Junior Athletics Champs next year. In all instances, the Moscow lab was supposed run all the testing.
Russia itself is going to do chuff all about it and wait to see if the IAAF/IOC will do anything about itWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739662#p19739662]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739660#p19739660]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739659#p19739659]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Is it really that big a loss of face? Is the average sports fan going to care if they have a lab or not?
To the outside world. The average sports fan is really not who Putin give a flying f*ck about
Let me rephrase. Does Putin give a toss if they have a lab, have athletes not winning or failing tests? Given he doesn't give a toss about invading sovereign states, endorsing the murder of journalists who criticise his government, jailing protestors, jailing political opponents, murdering political enemies in other sovereign states etc etc I'm not sure he's going to bat an eyelid at a bit more bribery and corruption to win hosting rights to more sporting events.
Afterall, there is no way the World Cup will change horses at this point and F1 care less about drug tests than the WWF.
If Putin didnt got a toss about Russian athletes winning, how come the trail leads back to him and to his close ally Vitaly Mutko? If he didnt care about Russia winning or failing tests, why were the FSB were used in the cover up? How come the Russian state machinery was used to secure as many medals and titles for Make Glorious Russia, if he didnt give a toss?
Actually, this is a decent bit of analysis
http://www.3wiresports.com/2015/11/09/who-knew-what-when-and-what-is-to-be-done/0 -
The tory graph have an article on how it has been reported in Russia - safe to say that most newspapers havent really bothered and those that have have painted it is baseless, without evidence, a US led conspiracy against Mother Russia etc etc.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739654#p19739654]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739620#p19739620]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.
I wonder if that will end up being the compromise/fudge in any event? as in Russia accept that there have been failings in the testing regime and instead of being banned or having medals stripped all of their samples have to be tested outside of Russia for the next 5 years.
Massive loss of face for the Russians. Who are at the moment, still supposed to be hosting the World Cup, plus other intl comps including the World Junior Athletics Champs next year. In all instances, the Moscow lab was supposed run all the testing.
Russia itself is going to do chuff all about it and wait to see if the IAAF/IOC will do anything about it
Its not about face within the country. The Russian people are fed the bs, and whatever. Its about impact outside Russia. Which is why the Russian rhetoric in the media targeted at in-country is all belligerent, in contrast to the formal statements they are putting out today for international purposes.
As for your last sentence, well, yeah, duh0 -
Sorry, let me rephrase.
Why would he have any compucation about continuing to endorse and facilitate cheating? Afterall, it's only a few athletes get thrown on the pyre if they get caught."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
The tory graph have an article on how it has been reported in Russia - safe to say that most newspapers havent really bothered and those that have have painted it is baseless, without evidence, a US led conspiracy against Mother Russia etc etc.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739654#p19739654]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739620#p19739620]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739577#p19739577]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Moscow lab now suspended.
https://twitter.com/wada_ama/status/664046532748947456
I'm not entirely sure of the implicatins of this. does it just mean that russian samples will have to be tested elsewhere? Or does it act as a de facto Russian sports ban as they cannot process samples?
They will have to send the samples to a lab outside Russia. Which means they cant send in their secret police to intimidate, for starters. And they cant bribe/coerce/blackmail the Moscow lab employees, and cant utilise the very corrupt Moscow lab director.
I wonder if that will end up being the compromise/fudge in any event? as in Russia accept that there have been failings in the testing regime and instead of being banned or having medals stripped all of their samples have to be tested outside of Russia for the next 5 years.
Massive loss of face for the Russians. Who are at the moment, still supposed to be hosting the World Cup, plus other intl comps including the World Junior Athletics Champs next year. In all instances, the Moscow lab was supposed run all the testing.
Russia itself is going to do chuff all about it and wait to see if the IAAF/IOC will do anything about it
I watched the evening news on RT yesterday and it was the headline story and handled in a more balanced way than I'd anticipated. They did have a long interview with an indignant Mutko, their sports minister.
https://youtu.be/LwuMzgww8CM0 -
Surely Russia's just going to do what they always do when they're caught doing something wrong (e.g., Syria, Crimea) and brazenly deny everything regardless of how obviously guilty they are.
It's called the Shaggy Strategem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75fyFAh29XY0 -
Surely Russia's just going to do what they always do when they're caught doing something wrong (e.g., Syria, Crimea) and brazenly deny everything regardless of how obviously guilty they are.
It's called the Shaggy Strategem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75fyFAh29XY
Hat."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0
