Drugs in other sports and the media.

larkim

I suppose it depends where in WADA they work. If its on reception, IT support or the stationary stores that's a world away from working on policy, testing, case handling etc etc.

Often corporates bandy around figures which are part of their internal marketing or internal performance management which aren't strictly accurate, but are designed to enthuse their workforce etc. But 2nd hand info from WADA is better than anything I can bring to the table, so it's an interesting insight nonetheless!

shirley_basso

I don't know exactly, but definitely not support staff.

My line of thought is the same as Pross.

Their comments reflect their opinion, not that of the organisation. They said it was definitely eye opening seeing it from the inside. It's definitely not fact and presumably covers the remit of the organisation as a whole across all sports.

above_the_cows

Does horse racing even fall under WADA's remit?

Other Olympic horse sports I can understand but horse racing...?

RichN95.

Shirley Basso wrote:

In any case, why wouldn't WADA be aware of what's going on in other sports/industries? To not do would be willfully ignorant.

So why aren't they using these alleged advancements that horse racing are using? That's willful negligence.

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

In any case, why wouldn't WADA be aware of what's going on in other sports/industries? To not do would be willfully ignorant.

So why aren't they using these alleged advancements that horse racing are using? That's willful negligence.

Many advancements in horse racing come from selective breeding. That's not really possible in other human sports.

EDIT - a prize winning race horse is worth more at stud than it could ever win on the track. Now of course, doping a horse so that it would win would temporarily increase its value at stud, however, if its progeny do not show the same unassisted talent then the stud price will quickly decrease. Traceable, long-term successful, bloodlines are hugely valuable in horse racing and other horse sports. You could effectively turn a donkey into a race horse through doping but it will only yield you short term profit.

bobmcstuff

Above The Cows wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

In any case, why wouldn't WADA be aware of what's going on in other sports/industries? To not do would be willfully ignorant.

So why aren't they using these alleged advancements that horse racing are using? That's willful negligence.

Many advancements in horse racing come from selective breeding. That's not really possible in other human sports.

Plenty horses getting busted for drugs though.

RichN95.

Above The Cows wrote:

Does horse racing even fall under WADA's remit?

Other Olympic horse sports I can understand but horse racing...?

No. WADA don't do the horse testing at the Olympics either - those tests got sent off to a specialist lab in Newmarket. The banned list for horses is completely different.

shirley_basso

Maybe what works with horses doesn't work with humans, yet? Maybe the risk is too great to humans at present. Maybe the chemicals show up in human urine but not horses? Maybe only the ones doing the doping know? Maybe there is no doping and the Irish trainers are having a fantastic run of success? I don't know as I wasn't there to ask the questions.

Veterinary surgery and medical advances are usually made well before humans, as they can test on animals, that much I am aware of.

Their comment was simply that Arab trainers used to do very well but currently Irish ones are winning everything which is unusual.

It's just one person's opinion. These are not the public statements of WADA!

above_the_cows

bobmcstuff wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

In any case, why wouldn't WADA be aware of what's going on in other sports/industries? To not do would be willfully ignorant.

So why aren't they using these alleged advancements that horse racing are using? That's willful negligence.

Many advancements in horse racing come from selective breeding. That's not really possible in other human sports.

Plenty horses getting busted for drugs though.

Yes they do, often for similar reasons to humans, wrong feed, steroids in cream used to treat cuts etc. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but to think that it is some huge conspiracy and taints the whole sport is, just like in cycling, fanciful without evidence to the contrary.

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Does horse racing even fall under WADA's remit?

Other Olympic horse sports I can understand but horse racing...?

No. WADA don't do the horse testing at the Olympics either - those tests got sent off to a specialist lab in Newmarket. The banned list for horses is completely different.

That's what I thought. It would make sense. The only thing I know which is on the banned list for horses is cortisone because you can no longer by the best topical anti-septic cream for horses because it contains cortisone. It was the reason the German's lost a medal at the Athens Olympics, they'd used the wrong cream and the horse came back with a positive for cortisone.

RichN95.

Shirley Basso wrote:

Maybe what works with horses doesn't work with humans, yet? Maybe the risk is too great to humans at present. Maybe the chemicals show up in human urine but not horses? Maybe only the ones doing the doping know? Maybe there is no doping and the Irish trainers are having a fantastic run of success? I don't know as I wasn't there to ask the questions.

Veterinary surgery and medical advances are usually made well before humans, as they can test on animals, that much I am aware of.

Their comment was simply that Arab trainers used to do very well but currently Irish ones are winning everything which is unusual.

It's just one person's opinion.

"Equine biological passports years away but receiving industry sport": https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... y-support/

Cycling have had this for ten years. 4-5 years ahead, my arse.

above_the_cows

Horses do have to have passports but this is for biosecurity and theft reasons. These contain the name of the horse, its registered owner/history of ownership. Place of birth if known. List of vaccinations with official stamps from vaccine dose. A description of the horse, breed, height, colour and distinctive markings and a handy picturegram where such markings including scars and brands can be drawn/noted.

You cannot transport a horse in a motorised vehicle in the UK without carrying the horse's passport. This is to a) try and prevent thefts and b) because horses can transmit diseases such as foot and mouth.

It doesn't work of course because no one EVER checks the passports, but there you go.

dinyull

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

Maybe what works with horses doesn't work with humans, yet? Maybe the risk is too great to humans at present. Maybe the chemicals show up in human urine but not horses? Maybe only the ones doing the doping know? Maybe there is no doping and the Irish trainers are having a fantastic run of success? I don't know as I wasn't there to ask the questions.

Veterinary surgery and medical advances are usually made well before humans, as they can test on animals, that much I am aware of.

Their comment was simply that Arab trainers used to do very well but currently Irish ones are winning everything which is unusual.

It's just one person's opinion.

"Equine biological passports years away but receiving industry sport": https://www.paulickreport.com/news/the- ... y-support/

Cycling have had this for ten years. 4-5 years ahead, my ars*.

U ok hun?

timoid.

Above The Cows wrote:

EDIT - a prize winning race horse is worth more at stud than it could ever win on the track. Now of course, doping a horse so that it would win would temporarily increase its value at stud, however, if its progeny do not show the same unassisted talent then the stud price will quickly decrease. Traceable, long-term successful, bloodlines are hugely valuable in horse racing and other horse sports. You could effectively turn a donkey into a race horse through doping but it will only yield you short term profit.

This. Let's take a race everyone is familiar with, the Derby. Aiden O'Brien (Irish) has trained 4 of the last 7 winners. Those horses were all bred by Coolmore (his associated breeding operation). If we look at the pedigree of those horses (male line) it goes:

2017: Wings of Eagles<Pour Moi*<Montjeu<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2014: Australia<Galileo<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2013: Ruler of the World<Galileo<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2012: Camelot<Montjeu<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer

*won the 2011 Derby for Andre Fabre and the Coolmore owners

The pattern here is simple, breed from the best horses and win the races (Galileo and Montjeu have sired 8 Derby winners between them). Also breed a lot and buy a lot. Many more horses fail than succeed. Coolmore is the biggest, richest breeding operation in Europe and has been for two decades. That is why they win. That and the genius of Aiden O'Brien.

I'm afraid your WADA mate is full of it. At best s/he's repeating water cooler gossip.

RichN95.

Timoid. wrote:

This. Let's take a race everyone is familiar with, the Derby. Aiden O'Brien (Irish) has trained 4 of the last 7 winners. Those horses were all bred by Coolmore (his associated breeding operation). If we look at the pedigree of those horses (male line) it goes:

2017: Wings of Eagles<Pour Moi*<Montjeu<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2014: Australia<Galileo<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2013: Ruler of the World<Galileo<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2012: Camelot<Montjeu<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer

*won the 2011 Derby for Andre Fabre and the Coolmore owners

And even this year's winner, a Godolphin (Dubai) owned horse, is Galileo's grandson.

shirley_basso

"I'm afraid your WADA mate is full of it. At best s/he's repeating water cooler gossip."

That's what I thought when the story was recounted to me and to be honest I did expect it would get a reaction on here.

That said, the story was recounted the following day and the story teller is totally impartial and mostly disinterested in professional sport and doping. However, they know I like cycling and follow pro cycling so was happy to recount what they heard. Unfortunately because of their disinterest in sport, I wasn't really in a position to push back and say it's nonsense and in spite of the friend (at WADA) being in a very credible sounding position, it mostly came across as ignorant, to me.

Although very happy to be educated on the horse related stuff.

RichN95.

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

shirley_basso

RichN95 wrote:

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

Spat out my coffee!

No_Ta_Doctor

Shirley Basso wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

Spat out my coffee!

Good job this thread is about OTHER sports.

***Laura Trott & Jason Kenny***

above_the_cows

RichN95 wrote:

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

The female line is equally as important.

Breeding is also important in an event like dressage where doping is not going to be so helpful at all. Dope can't make your horse a better dancer. It either has what are called the 'paces' from birth or it doesn't. Training helps but you cannot turn a donkey into a dressage horse with anything.

Vino'sGhost

RichN95 wrote:

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

LOL funniest thing hes ever said

above_the_cows

Whoever gelded Valegro must be kicking themselves, that's a fortune they have lost. Although maybe he wouldn't concentrate with his tackle intact.

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

Spat out my coffee!

Good job this thread is about OTHER sports.

***Laura Trott & Jason Kenny***

Interestingly, one of the hottest prospects in high school baseball is Andre Agassi and Stefi Graf's son. He tried lots of sports but never touched tennis.

Pross

Above The Cows wrote:

Horses do have to have passports but this is for biosecurity and theft reasons. These contain the name of the horse, its registered owner/history of ownership. Place of birth if known. List of vaccinations with official stamps from vaccine dose. A description of the horse, breed, height, colour and distinctive markings and a handy picturegram where such markings including scars and brands can be drawn/noted.

You cannot transport a horse in a motorised vehicle in the UK without carrying the horse's passport. This is to a) try and prevent thefts and b) because horses can transmit diseases such as foot and mouth.

It doesn't work of course because no one EVER checks the passports, but there you go.

The passport also stops a horse getting into the food chain if it has been given certain medications that would be a danger. We used to have to provide our passport before my daughter could go on pony club camp and you won't get anywhere near a race course without one.

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The bottom line is to create a winner the best thing to inject a horse with is Galileo's knob.

Spat out my coffee!

Good job this thread is about OTHER sports.

***Laura Trott & Jason Kenny***

Interestingly, one of the hottest prospects in high school baseball is Andre Agassi and Stefi Graf's son. He tried lots of sports but never touched tennis.

Given Andre Agassi's childhood I'm not surprised he thought he'd try a different style of parenting.

No_Ta_Doctor

Above The Cows wrote:

Whoever gelded Valegro must be kicking themselves, that's a fortune they have lost. Although maybe he wouldn't concentrate with his tackle intact.

Please delete this. There may be employers lurking and we don't want them getting ideas for new corporate policies.

m.r.m.

Above The Cows wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Shirley Basso wrote:

In any case, why wouldn't WADA be aware of what's going on in other sports/industries? To not do would be willfully ignorant.

So why aren't they using these alleged advancements that horse racing are using? That's willful negligence.

Many advancements in horse racing come from selective breeding. That's not really possible in other human sports.

EDIT - a prize winning race horse is worth more at stud than it could ever win on the track. Now of course, doping a horse so that it would win would temporarily increase its value at stud, however, if its progeny do not show the same unassisted talent then the stud price will quickly decrease. Traceable, long-term successful, bloodlines are hugely valuable in horse racing and other horse sports. You could effectively turn a donkey into a race horse through doping but it will only yield you short term profit.

Now if only you could get Mathieu van der Poel to meet Camilla Parker Bowles or Sarah Jessica Parker...

bobmcstuff

Timoid. wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

EDIT - a prize winning race horse is worth more at stud than it could ever win on the track. Now of course, doping a horse so that it would win would temporarily increase its value at stud, however, if its progeny do not show the same unassisted talent then the stud price will quickly decrease. Traceable, long-term successful, bloodlines are hugely valuable in horse racing and other horse sports. You could effectively turn a donkey into a race horse through doping but it will only yield you short term profit.

This. Let's take a race everyone is familiar with, the Derby. Aiden O'Brien (Irish) has trained 4 of the last 7 winners. Those horses were all bred by Coolmore (his associated breeding operation). If we look at the pedigree of those horses (male line) it goes:

2017: Wings of Eagles<Pour Moi*<Montjeu<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2014: Australia<Galileo<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2013: Ruler of the World<Galileo<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer
2012: Camelot<Montjeu<Sadlers Wells<Northern Dancer

*won the 2011 Derby for Andre Fabre and the Coolmore owners

The pattern here is simple, breed from the best horses and win the races (Galileo and Montjeu have sired 8 Derby winners between them). Also breed a lot and buy a lot. Many more horses fail than succeed. Coolmore is the biggest, richest breeding operation in Europe and has been for two decades. That is why they win. That and the genius of Aiden O'Brien.

I'm afraid your WADA mate is full of it. At best s/he's repeating water cooler gossip.

So what you're saying is we need to get Froome and Vos to mate?

gweeds

That would give us Vroome. Let's do it.

Vino'sGhost

Fifa announced on Thursday that so far all doping tests conducted before and during the World Cup have yielded negative results.

Since January 2018, a total of 2,037 tests have been conducted, Fifa said. On average, every player from the four remaining teams has been tested four times since January, with some of tested up to eight times.