Drugs in other sports and the media.

Vino'sGhost

RichN95 wrote:

The statistics were for testing by USADA I believe. And Williams spends less time on the road than almost all her rivals so is at home more, particularly with her recent pregnancy. Also there have been incidents that have attracted attention.

Like the fact she appears awash with testosterone.

Vino'sGhost

Cruff wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

There are some references to missed drugs tests by Serena. She doesn't know how good she has it.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other- ... 05939.html

DD.

She's a whinging, miserable piece of work... but she does have a point in the amount she's tested compared to other tennis players. I read somewhere she's been tested something like five times as often as other female players, and more often than most male players. Admittedly that's coming from a starting position of pathetically low in comparison to cycling, and she should be tested slightly more often (because she wins everything) but still seems a little unfair.

Shes worse than whinging, she feels no compunction not to destroy anyone junior to her on a whim, player linesman judge it makes no odds shes an egotistical bully whose world revolves entirely around herself and its allowed because of money.

blazing_saddles

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Cruff wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

There are some references to missed drugs tests by Serena. She doesn't know how good she has it.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other- ... 05939.html

DD.

She's a whinging, miserable piece of work... but she does have a point in the amount she's tested compared to other tennis players. I read somewhere she's been tested something like five times as often as other female players, and more often than most male players. Admittedly that's coming from a starting position of pathetically low in comparison to cycling, and she should be tested slightly more often (because she wins everything) but still seems a little unfair.

Shes worse than whinging, she feels no compunction not to destroy anyone junior to her on a whim, player linesman judge it makes no odds shes an egotistical bully whose world revolves entirely around herself and its allowed because of money.

You missed out using the sexism shield as a deflection.
In other words, Lance Armstrong's female counterpart?

bobmcstuff

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Cruff wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

There are some references to missed drugs tests by Serena. She doesn't know how good she has it.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other- ... 05939.html

DD.

She's a whinging, miserable piece of work... but she does have a point in the amount she's tested compared to other tennis players. I read somewhere she's been tested something like five times as often as other female players, and more often than most male players. Admittedly that's coming from a starting position of pathetically low in comparison to cycling, and she should be tested slightly more often (because she wins everything) but still seems a little unfair.

Shes worse than whinging, she feels no compunction not to destroy anyone junior to her on a whim, player linesman judge it makes no odds shes an egotistical bully whose world revolves entirely around herself and its allowed because of money.

You missed out using the sexism shield as a deflection.
In other words, Lance Armstrong's female counterpart?

I dunno, and this probably isn't the place for it - but while I agree her hissy fit was completely out of order, the treatment of exactly the same thing by male players has clearly been different. Plenty of male players have behaved exactly the same and received no penalty.

Not to say that she shouldn't have been penalised, of course.

blazing_saddles

bobmcstuff wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Cruff wrote:

Dolan Driver wrote:

There are some references to missed drugs tests by Serena. She doesn't know how good she has it.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other- ... 05939.html

DD.

She's a whinging, miserable piece of work... but she does have a point in the amount she's tested compared to other tennis players. I read somewhere she's been tested something like five times as often as other female players, and more often than most male players. Admittedly that's coming from a starting position of pathetically low in comparison to cycling, and she should be tested slightly more often (because she wins everything) but still seems a little unfair.

Shes worse than whinging, she feels no compunction not to destroy anyone junior to her on a whim, player linesman judge it makes no odds shes an egotistical bully whose world revolves entirely around herself and its allowed because of money.

You missed out using the sexism shield as a deflection.
In other words, Lance Armstrong's female counterpart?

I dunno, and this probably isn't the place for it - but while I agree her hissy fit was completely out of order, the treatment of exactly the same thing by male players has clearly been different. Plenty of male players have behaved exactly the same and received no penalty.

Not to say that she shouldn't have been penalised, of course.

I'm not so sure. Isn't this a case the same problem we experience in cycling: that of inconsistency with application of the rules?
This guy appears to be pretty consistent.

From the article:

To avoid this truth though, those who are in a rush to call foul based on sex would be better reading before talking. Did they know for instance that this umpire is a stickler for rules? That at the French Open at the start of the summer he gave both Marco Cecchinato and Novak Djokovic a warning for coaching from the stands? That Djokovic had a run-in with him at Wimbledon after being penalised for throwing his racket? That at the Olympics in 2016, Andy Murray got a warning for calling him stupid? The same three warnings she got.
There are any amount of other instances of consistency, from Rafael Nadal stripped of a serve for taking too long, to Nick Kyrgios given a code violation for shouting at a ball boy.
Last year Fabio Fognini was thrown out of the US Open and fined $96,000 for shouting at a female umpire....

bompington

bobmcstuff wrote:

Plenty of male players have behaved exactly the same and received no penalty.

Well, that's the story being told - but you 'd have thought they could come up with a few more examples than they have.

And I have certainly seen more than a few examples of where male players (top ones too) have been treated the same way, and that's just by Ramos himself.

It may be that other umpires are less able to withstand the pressure applied to them by entitled, powerful, rich tennis players. But Ramos himself appears to have been totally consistent.

Which makes me wonder - surely professional sportspersons would make a point of knowing who the umpires/refs are, and knowing at least something about their style?

unless they're dippy women suffering from baby brain, of course.

gweeds

Great quote from Ramos yesterday

"Arbitration isn't available on an a la carte basis"

The speed with with various tennis authorities lined up to thrown him under a fleet of buses was poor, entirely expected and shows just where the power lies.

bobmcstuff

OK, fair enough - I'm convinced.

Most of the coverage I had seen on it was based on comparisons with other incidents which may or may not be different umpires.

As a hammer blow, even the Guardian thinks it wasn't sexist, which really says something as they're usually pretty quick to cry foul https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... open-final

shirley_basso

i don't think he is any more. He may have said something in the past, but changed his views.

Djok was very defensive of Cilic when he was banned.

That said, Murray and Nadal's comebacks in 2008/9 was pretty suspect - both doubling in size!

Vino'sGhost

Shirley Basso wrote:

i don't think he is any more. He may have said something in the past, but changed his views.

Djok was very defensive of Cilic when he was banned.

That said, Murray and Nadal's comebacks in 2008/9 was pretty suspect - both doubling in size!

I think he learned a lesson after his loose lipped and naive objection to playing by the rules.

Pross

Shirley Basso wrote:

i don't think he is any more. He may have said something in the past, but changed his views.

Djok was very defensive of Cilic when he was banned.

That said, Murray and Nadal's comebacks in 2008/9 was pretty suspect - both doubling in size!

Nadal was always muscular (and always suspect!).

RichN95.

bompington wrote:

Which makes me wonder - surely professional sportspersons would make a point of knowing who the umpires/refs are, and knowing at least something about their style?

We know this in the ropey Welsh hockey leagues I play in.

Also, people are saying that she was penalised for saying things that the men say, but she did two things that umpires in other sports are red lines: 1. She didn't accept her punishments and just kept going and 2. She called the umpire a thief and a liar - attacks on integrity which a different kettle of fish to calling them incompetent.

ddraver

Am I wrong in thinking it's a "3 strikes" system? So essentially continuing with the dramatics was akin to a player on yellow clattering into the opposition striker from behind

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

Am I wrong in thinking it's a "3 strikes" system? So essentially continuing with the dramatics was akin to a player on yellow clattering into the opposition striker from behind

More or less. But a bit more like being blown up for a marginal but fair foul, then kicking the ball away in disgust, getting a yellow card and then calling the referee a cheat in a massive tirade.
And then comparing it to another player in a different match that shouted "FFS are you blind" after being blown for a foul, was told to shut up and did so.

ddraver

Yes, my thoughts also

Kyrgios-whaasit is a d1ck but he's a d1ck who knows when to shut up...(Lesson 1 in being a sucessful d1ck really.)

Vino'sGhost

the truth is she lost the plot and couldnt control her rage the rest is looking for people to take responsibility.

As for the cartoon being racist what tosh, whilst caricature it bears a remarkable likeness.

carbonclem

Vino'sGhost wrote:

As for the cartoon being racist what tosh, whilst caricature it bears a remarkable likeness.

Not bothered about the 'whitening' of her opponent in the cartoon?

FWIW the cartoon drawing overemphasised her and ended up in a image that played upon racist stereotyping. Its pretty obvious and unsurprising, given its source.

larkim

I struggle to see the difference between a caricature that is racist and one which is not, and I'm usually a snowflake. Physically, whether Serena is african american or european american, she is a much, much bigger build than nearly all of her opponents. A caricature will inevitably exaggerate that, surely.

I am, however, open minded enough to have my opinion revised by understanding flaws in my position above if they are pointed out.

inseine

CarbonClem wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

As for the cartoon being racist what tosh, whilst caricature it bears a remarkable likeness.

Not bothered about the 'whitening' of her opponent in the cartoon?

FWIW the cartoon drawing overemphasised her and ended up in a image that played upon racist stereotyping. Its pretty obvious and unsurprising, given its source.

I have to agree. It clearly plays on the stereotype of a black person. 'a remarkable likeness'? I beg to differ. She doesn't have massive lips for a start.

bompington

inseine wrote:

I have to agree. It clearly plays on the stereotype of a black person. 'a remarkable likeness'? I beg to differ. She doesn't have massive lips for a start.

Judge for yourselves:



I mean fancy that, a cartoonist drawing a stereotype!
To me it just shows how the modern concept of a "protected group" works: for centuries, literally, cartoonists have drawn derogatory, even vicious, stereotypes of individuals or groups (just think of Steve Bell or Gerald Scarfe, two cartoonists who I have an inkling are popular with many of the very same people who are up in arms about this one; or the hook-nosed Jews in the mural that impressed Corbyn so much).
But as soon as you draw one of a member of a protected group...

ddraver

The problem bomp - which I suspect you know - is that he hasn't drawn Serena Williams he's drawn 'generic black woman trope'

Add to that he's drawn a Japanese/Hatian as a blonde white woman for some reason then it is not difficult to see where his opinions lie.

That the point of the cartoon - that Serena Williams lost her temper, likely becasue she was losing - would have worked equally well with out these objectively racial stereotypes does not excuse them.

These are cartoons playing on a person's personal features:-


The equivalent to the Herald cartoon would be if Obama had been drawn in Zulu dress with a watermelon for a mouth.

bompington

...agreed that drawing the other player as a blonde is a bit off.

But I would stand by the claim that, in the circumstances, it is a pretty fair caricature of Williams.

ddraver

I can't agree with you...

I mean flippin' 'ell dude it's basically this...

Dorset_Boy

Other than the exaggerated lips, I'd say it's a pretty spot on caricature of Serena - the dress, hairstyle, facial expression, and having a hissy fit.
I agree about her opponent though.

Vino'sGhost

i think its an excellent portrayal of her out burst attitude and physical demeanour. Remember the cartoonist has to capture all of that. The cartoonist may or may not be any more or less racist than the next person but its a very good caricature.

That this is one other thing that virtue signalling assaulted of snowflake land finds to yes but or defend her appalling behaviour is not that surprising.

bompington

ddraver wrote:

I can't agree with you...

Going purely from the photo of her mid-paddy, I would say
- big lips? Yes
- wide nose? Yes
- musculature typical of a s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶i̶d̶ ̶a̶b̶u̶s̶e̶r highly trained athlete? Yes
- hissy fit? Yes
- distinctive pulled up hairstyle? Yes
- outfit? Yes

It looks like her to me.

You can only complain about the caricature if you think that it's only acceptable to draw cartoons of black people that actively hide typical physical traits (like the cartoon of Tony Blair you posted ;-)).

Vino'sGhost

also she does have big lips, well she has a big everything doesn't she

Vino'sGhost

bompington wrote:

ddraver wrote:

I can't agree with you...

Going purely from the photo of her mid-paddy, I would say
- big lips? Yes
- wide nose? Yes
- musculature typical of a s̶t̶e̶r̶o̶i̶d̶ ̶a̶b̶u̶s̶e̶r highly trained athlete? Yes
- hissy fit? Yes
- distinctive pulled up hairstyle? Yes
- outfit? Yes

It looks like her to me.

You can only complain about the caricature if you think that it's only acceptable to draw cartoons of black people that actively hide typical physical traits (like the cartoon of Tony Blair you posted ;-)).

absolutely.

ddraver

Ok bomp...I think this is a weird hill for you to choose to die on but...ok

Vino'sGhost

ddraver wrote:

Ok bomp...I think this is a weird hill for you to choose to die on but...ok

So you concede he's right?