Hamilton's autobiography *spoilers*
Comments
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Richmond Racer wrote:
Not exactly the keys to the secret sauce cupboard, is it?0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:
Not exactly the keys to the secret sauce cupboard, is it?
Well mainly he seemed to be using twitter to tell us about all the stuff he wasn't able to publish. Or at least to tell us he had lots of juicy stuff that we didn't...Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:
Not exactly the keys to the secret sauce cupboard, is it?
After reading the secret race it's hard not be desensitised to it all.0 -
Remember Walsh's audience is ST readers who've probably not read the book.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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But it's not got the revelations or the details in it that the book has either - basically it's a nothing article apart from Walsh telling everyone how cool he is for still not liking Hamilton...
No one who has nt read the book is going to be any the wiser as to what is in it, or how shocking it is or, most importantly, how believable it is..We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Tom BB wrote:I read the book yesterday-really enjoyed it. What a ridiculous world the pro peloton was. Hopefully it is better now. I also read Millar's book last week. I thought that he came across as a complete tool.
Really don't understand how you can read Millar's book and have an opinion like that.0 -
ddraver wrote:But it's not got the revelations or the details in it that the book has either - basically it's a nothing article apart from Walsh telling everyone how cool he is for still not liking Hamilton...
No one who has nt read the book is going to be any the wiser as to what is in it, or how shocking it is or, most importantly, how believable it is..
On Walsh's part, think there is a lot of self-vindication re his stand on Armstrong going on. Cant blame him, I guess, but its going to have a shelf-life.0 -
Rich on here had it right that's it's a little odd that two journos from news international papers hark on and on about omertas...0
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Rick Chasey wrote:Rich on here had it right that's it's a little odd that two journos from news international papers hark on and on about omertas...
Well, one out of work journo.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Heavymental wrote:Tom BB wrote:I read the book yesterday-really enjoyed it. What a ridiculous world the pro peloton was. Hopefully it is better now. I also read Millar's book last week. I thought that he came across as a complete tool.
Really don't understand how you can read Millar's book and have an opinion like that.
I've just read it, ad though I'm impressed by Millar's openness I also think he comes across as a bit of a tool.
There's a fine line between "I was in a crappy situation not of my making and I cocked it up" and "It was pretty much inevitable, however much I tried to prevent it".
I think he's done a huge amount of good work though.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:ddraver wrote:fo real...
(All I have to watch here is The Wire)
good man. Watched it already or is this the first time???
Second time but not for a long while. Illegal downloads of all 5 Seasons Yo!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Heavymental wrote:Tom BB wrote:I read the book yesterday-really enjoyed it. What a ridiculous world the pro peloton was. Hopefully it is better now. I also read Millar's book last week. I thought that he came across as a complete tool.
Really don't understand how you can read Millar's book and have an opinion like that.
I just thought that it was a huge ego trip. All his tales of an extremely privileged upbringing etc...then how he claims that the team manipulated him to dope by taking advantage of a vulnerable position-I'm not saying that they didn't manipulate him, but the guy had just won the tour of Denmark clean, and then went off to dope....surely if he could win like that clean then he should have said no to doping? Moncoutie seems to have avoided it. He seems to want to be the victim, but as a result of his doping, enjoyed a jet setting lifestyle that most can only dream of and did clean riders out of results.0 -
Look out for the 5-0 then.
I also imagine red tops means something different over there in Siberia....0 -
Tom BB wrote:Heavymental wrote:Tom BB wrote:I read the book yesterday-really enjoyed it. What a ridiculous world the pro peloton was. Hopefully it is better now. I also read Millar's book last week. I thought that he came across as a complete tool.
Really don't understand how you can read Millar's book and have an opinion like that.
I just thought that it was a huge ego trip. All his tales of an extremely privileged upbringing etc...then how he claims that the team manipulated him to dope by taking advantage of a vulnerable position-I'm not saying that they didn't manipulate him, but the guy had just won the tour of Denmark clean, and then went off to dope....surely if he could win like that clean then he should have said no to doping? Moncoutie seems to have avoided it. He seems to want to be the victim, but as a result of his doping, enjoyed a jet setting lifestyle that most can only dream of and did clean riders out of results.
As I've said in another post, everyone has choices and Millar caved in after a few years - and yes, he had the choice to keep holding out. However it has to be said that Moncoutie is widely regarded as a relatively rare example of a rider who rode at such a high level and didnt dope, through those years.0 -
Yep, but I bet that Millar could have had a similar if not better career to Moncoutie without dope...also, there were plenty of riders that did say no and had more modest careers. That option was available to Holy Dave. It comes down to greed IMO.0
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Tom BB wrote:Heavymental wrote:Tom BB wrote:I read the book yesterday-really enjoyed it. What a ridiculous world the pro peloton was. Hopefully it is better now. I also read Millar's book last week. I thought that he came across as a complete tool.
Really don't understand how you can read Millar's book and have an opinion like that.
I just thought that it was a huge ego trip. All his tales of an extremely privileged upbringing etc...then how he claims that the team manipulated him to dope by taking advantage of a vulnerable position-I'm not saying that they didn't manipulate him, but the guy had just won the tour of Denmark clean, and then went off to dope....surely if he could win like that clean then he should have said no to doping? Moncoutie seems to have avoided it. He seems to want to be the victim, but as a result of his doping, enjoyed a jet setting lifestyle that most can only dream of and did clean riders out of results.
Fair enough. I guess I just like him as a rider and as a person so maybe I read it with my own mindset but I felt it read like the story of any young mans journey would given similar circumstances. The pressure to dope built and he eventually said yes. I didn't read it like it was a 'greedy' decision. Just that it was a decision he had to take if he wanted to remain where he was. I felt that what came over strongly was his love of bike racing and that was what motivated him. He never struck me as greedy in the book.0 -
Flying himself to Vegas to celebrate his doped victory in the World TT? I don't think that he's greedy now, but he admits that prior to his ban he was very materialistic.0
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Heavymental wrote:Tom BB wrote:Heavymental wrote:Tom BB wrote:I read the book yesterday-really enjoyed it. What a ridiculous world the pro peloton was. Hopefully it is better now. I also read Millar's book last week. I thought that he came across as a complete tool.
Really don't understand how you can read Millar's book and have an opinion like that.
I just thought that it was a huge ego trip. All his tales of an extremely privileged upbringing etc...then how he claims that the team manipulated him to dope by taking advantage of a vulnerable position-I'm not saying that they didn't manipulate him, but the guy had just won the tour of Denmark clean, and then went off to dope....surely if he could win like that clean then he should have said no to doping? Moncoutie seems to have avoided it. He seems to want to be the victim, but as a result of his doping, enjoyed a jet setting lifestyle that most can only dream of and did clean riders out of results.
Fair enough. I guess I just like him as a rider and as a person so maybe I read it with my own mindset but I felt it read like the story of any young mans journey would given similar circumstances. The pressure to dope built and he eventually said yes. I didn't read it like it was a 'greedy' decision. Just that it was a decision he had to take if he wanted to remain where he was. I felt that what came over strongly was his love of bike racing and that was what motivated him. He never struck me as greedy in the book.
I was wondering what the prospects were of Moncoutie as a young rider compared to Millar? The temptation and pressure to dope for a talented, hot prospect must be much greater than for a more modestly talented rider who isnt expected to win (not saying Moncoutie is modestly talented).0 -
Whatever anybody thinks of DM...................you gotta admire the guys guts.
2 years out of the sport and his first race if the TDF.
That takes balls...of the very biggest variety.
Just finished TH's book..................riveting..............the simple tructh is would you want Pharmstrong as your enemy........no. But then I probably wouldn't want him as a friend either...........'cos at some point your he will be your enemy.0 -
Much as I didn't like Millar's book all that much, I think calling him a "tool" is a bit rich... You've not ever made a mistake & tried to justify afterwards? Never?
Neat things like psychological science predict that the huge majority of us would make the same choices to dope that Millar and many others made, but you look at the responses to him & lots of us feel we wouldn't... If we look at guesstimates of the numbers doping & proportions condemning them, they are hugely disparate? Why? Does this help anyone?
Maybe trying to understand the choices that people made in a non-judgemental way would be a useful way forward where fans and riders can find a common point and try to move the issue forward.
Making it binary helps omerta: I hate him he doped got caught. I'd never do anything like that. He's a bad person... Other than the complete wrongness of this argument, it fuels not coming clean/being caught & encourages dual standards....
Saying all that, I found Millar's book a little self-serving, but can understand why & don't doubt I'd do something similar to (writing his book) this in the same circumstances. I'm not whiter than white, so won't ask others to be. I like Millar as a writer & a bike rider, so that's fine. Not liking him on the similar grounds is cool. You're so much better than him & would make better choices? Aye right....0 -
RichN95 wrote:Delete. I probably went to a place some might find offensive.
Scunthorpe?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
In a previous job, that town was indeed a victim of our over-zealous swear filter.No tA Doctor wrote:RichN95 wrote:Delete. I probably went to a place some might find offensive.
Scunthorpe?0 -
not read all the posts so dont know if its been added, but theres a sample chapter here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/105628455/THE ... niel-Coyle
-look away if you dont like big needles hehe.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
if any one wants to read the kindle version - to see if its worth buying and supporting a drugs cheat - let me know.
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Millar wrote to the UCI and McQuaid specifically about his concerns about doping in Saunier Duval when Gianetti etc ignored what he was saying from the moment he joined the team on his comeback. He got no response from McQuaid etc either. He then got out and over to work with Vaughters in the new Slipstream set up as quickly as possible.
I dont put Millar on a pedestal - both he and Hamilton cheated and lied. I happen to have more time for Millar because of what he's done over the 5-6 years since his return. I just feel that with articles like this and other things that Walsh is putting out - this article, his twitter feed etc - he's positioning Hamilton as someone who should almost be looked up to now.
William Fotheringham probably expresses it better in terms of my feelings towards Hamilton, in his review of The Secret Race
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... -armstrong
My issues with Millar are:
a) I don't think he has admitted the half of what he was involved in;
b) He keeps coming out with shoot in support of the likes of Contador - not good for credibility.
Saying that, until I actually get round to reading his book I won't sit in judgment... :oops:0
