Hamilton's autobiography *spoilers*
Comments
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Timoid. wrote:iainf72 wrote:I thought it was funny when he mentions Vino being a client of Fuentes for a while. Remember when Puerto happened Vino's name was on a card in Fuentes wallet, but somehow Vino managed to get away with it.
Also, you have to think Basso's collapse in the 05 Giro was down to dead blood.
Agreed. It's truly horrible just thinking about stuff like that.
Two things strike me thinking of that collapse:
1. Was Fuentes really amateur?
2. How much involvement did Riis have in the whole thing. A lot of his guys were on the same programme. He must have been an active participant.
I imagine when you hire people on big salaries all you need to do, if anything is point them in the right direction.
You'd hope for all that cash they'd work the rest out themselves.
At least, that's the vibe I'm getting. I'm now up to where he gets popped.0 -
Seems the difference between Armstrong, Postal generally, and the others was Ferrari and Verbruggen.
I'm a little surprised it wasn't as widespread as I thought.
It seems only the big guys could really afford to properly dope.
I thought it was more a case of quality, rather than actual access or not.
I like seeing the explainations behind various performances. Bad blood mainly.
Anyone found a video of Ullrich with his head 'like a f*cking pumpkin' because of too much cortisone on the final '97 TdF TT?0 -
Timoid. wrote:iainf72 wrote:I thought it was funny when he mentions Vino being a client of Fuentes for a while. Remember when Puerto happened Vino's name was on a card in Fuentes wallet, but somehow Vino managed to get away with it.
Also, you have to think Basso's collapse in the 05 Giro was down to dead blood.
Agreed. It's truly horrible just thinking about stuff like that.
Two things strike me thinking of that collapse:
1. Was Fuentes really amateur?
2. How much involvement did Riis have in the whole thing. A lot of his guys were on the same programme. He must have been an active participant.
You misunderstand! Riis is just really unlucky!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Not quite how I read it... before Willy Voet was caught it seemed like the teams organised and funded the doping...Rick Chasey wrote:It seems only the big guys could really afford to properly dope.
Hamilton kind of indicates that he wasn't actively looking for doping opportunities when he started with Postal, but it was seen as a promotion of sorts when he was invited to join 'the programme'... an indication that he'd made it.
After Voet was caught and the police stepped up their searches, then I agree that it appears to be the top riders who were undertaking their own doping (along with selected teammates in some cases).0 -
nic_77 wrote:
Not quite how I read it... before Willy Voet was caught it seemed like the teams organised and funded the doping...Rick Chasey wrote:It seems only the big guys could really afford to properly dope.
There was an obvious hierachy. Those with the white bags and (later) access to Fuentes/Ferrari and those who didn't.
That's how I read it anyway.0 -
ddraver wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:ddraver wrote:Blimey, He outs Hincapie in Chapter 3!!
(I'm sure this has been covered but I can only get in on kindle so i had to wait...)
Do keep up... Getting shelled out the back and blaming it on your Kindle... :roll:
I'm in sodding Siberia! The local книжный магазин did nt have a copy on 5th Sept!
You're in Fuentes' freezer? What do the labels on the blood bags say?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Me too. Hamilton said he felt like he made it when he got a bag too. However, he did go on to say that he always felt Armstrong was also getting that little something extra that kept him ahead.Rick Chasey wrote:nic_77 wrote:
Not quite how I read it... before Willy Voet was caught it seemed like the teams organised and funded the doping...Rick Chasey wrote:It seems only the big guys could really afford to properly dope.
There was an obvious hierachy. Those with the white bags and (later) access to Fuentes/Ferrari and those who didn't.
That's how I read it anyway.0 -
lol, and is there a bumbling old fool in their mixing the labels up?No tA Doctor wrote:ddraver wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:ddraver wrote:Blimey, He outs Hincapie in Chapter 3!!
(I'm sure this has been covered but I can only get in on kindle so i had to wait...)
Do keep up... Getting shelled out the back and blaming it on your Kindle... :roll:
I'm in sodding Siberia! The local книжный магазин did nt have a copy on 5th Sept!
You're in Fuentes' freezer? What do the labels on the blood bags say?0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:nic_77 wrote:
Not quite how I read it... before Willy Voet was caught it seemed like the teams organised and funded the doping...Rick Chasey wrote:It seems only the big guys could really afford to properly dope.
There was an obvious hierachy. Those with the white bags and (later) access to Fuentes/Ferrari and those who didn't.
That's how I read it anyway.
I think we agree actually.
The intesting point I wanted to draw on was that the riders (with some exceptions) didn't seem to go actively looking for the doping they waited until they were selected... maybe this was just a way of selling it to their own conscience, or a reasoning to excuse the cheating looking back... either way the peloton (at the start of Hamilton's career) sounds like the playground - lots of gossip, and everyone hoping to be invited to join the cool gang!0 -
nic_77 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:nic_77 wrote:
Not quite how I read it... before Willy Voet was caught it seemed like the teams organised and funded the doping...Rick Chasey wrote:It seems only the big guys could really afford to properly dope.
There was an obvious hierachy. Those with the white bags and (later) access to Fuentes/Ferrari and those who didn't.
That's how I read it anyway.
I think we agree actually.
The intesting point I wanted to draw on was that the riders (with some exceptions) didn't seem to go actively looking for the doping they waited until they were selected... maybe this was just a way of selling it to their own conscience, or a reasoning to excuse the cheating looking back... either way the peloton (at the start of Hamilton's career) sounds like the playground - lots of gossip, and everyone hoping to be invited to join the cool gang!
Meh. Hamilton seemed to know exactly what the white bags were and was disappointed when he didn't get one despite a good ride.
It's easy to read what Hamilton says as the same for every rider.
Obviously not.
But I can't help but hear echos when he starts talking about "hitting the numbers" for the first time in what all the riders say now. First time Hamilton came across it was dealing with doping doctors and presumably it was the same for most riders.
I find that amusing.
The first real holistic 'let's look at everything' was exactly the atttitude that led to the doping and the scientification of the sport, which of course goes hand in hand with doping.
Predictable, and probably obvious, but it's nice for it to be spelled out.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Meh. Hamilton seemed to know exactly what the white bags were and was disappointed when he didn't get one despite a good ride.
.
It read to me more like he just felt excluded, rather than hoping he would get some gear.
The book has just reinforced my opinion that Jen is a grade A c***.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:Anyone found a video of Ullrich with his head 'like a f*cking pumpkin' because of too much cortisone on the final '97 TdF TT?
8mts into this vid' you'll see him signing on, as Phil comments that "his face gives nothing away"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8wnx-YyYg&feature=youtube_gdata_playerJohny0 -
johny c wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Anyone found a video of Ullrich with his head 'like a f*cking pumpkin' because of too much cortisone on the final '97 TdF TT?
8mts into this vid' you'll see him signing on, as Phil comments that "his face gives nothing away"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8wnx-YyYg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Watching that all I could think is that it's a shame we never saw Jan looking that fit again."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
Just finished the English version. In true nerdy fashion I'm going to start on the US version to spot the differences.
I found eye-opening the account of Jens blanking Hamilton when Hamilton tries to talk to him in a race when he returns to the European scene after his 04 ban...
And my contempt for Armstrong, Riis and Bruyneel and my conviction they should be barred from any sport just got a whole lot deeper.0 -
US radio interview with Dan Coyle, about the book and stuff, here:
http://www.750thegame.com/pages/landing ... kID=632617"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Meh. Hamilton seemed to know exactly what the white bags were and was disappointed when he didn't get one despite a good ride.
.
It read to me more like he just felt excluded, rather than hoping he would get some gear.
The book has just reinforced my opinion that Jen is a grade A c***.
Who is Jen?0 -
Jens. Voigt.
Finished it this morning.
Have an urge to go through all the results of early '00 races now.0 -
inkyfingers wrote:johny c wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Anyone found a video of Ullrich with his head 'like a f*cking pumpkin' because of too much cortisone on the final '97 TdF TT?
8mts into this vid' you'll see him signing on, as Phil comments that "his face gives nothing away"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8wnx-YyYg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Watching that all I could think is that it's a shame we never saw Jan looking that fit again.
Now that it's been mentioned, he does look a bit different, but i'll be honest, it's not that noticable on screen.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Just finished the English version. In true nerdy fashion I'm going to start on the US version to spot the differences.
I found eye-opening the account of Jens blanking Hamilton when Hamilton tries to talk to him in a race when he returns to the European scene after his 04 ban...
And my contempt for Armstrong, Riis and Bruyneel and my conviction they should be barred from any sport just got a whole lot deeper.
Can't be very different.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Just finished the English version. In true nerdy fashion I'm going to start on the US version to spot the differences.
I found eye-opening the account of Jens blanking Hamilton when Hamilton tries to talk to him in a race when he returns to the European scene after his 04 ban...
And my contempt for Armstrong, Riis and Bruyneel and my conviction they should be barred from any sport just got a whole lot deeper.
Can't be very different.
Well, unless I missed it, cant find the quote from Mr Tinki to the Tinkoff Credit Systems team re doping "“I don’t care what you guys do, just don’t get caught.” I know that Hamilton repeated it in an interview with Bill Gifford for Outside Online this month, but I thought it was also in the book.0 -
Quite right.
Don't think the odd missing quote there changes much.
You can't help but think of every bad day or every GT collapse by a favourite is just down to the doping though, which is a shame.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Jens. Voigt.
Finished it this morning.
Have an urge to go through all the results of early '00 races now.
Cheers for that, Interesting, i thought he was a darling of the peloton...0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:After tyler got busted he didn't speak to him anymore.
On CSC? was that because he got busted and screwed it up for people or because he was well against doping?0 -
Doesn't go into that much detail.
Tyler comes back with Tinkoff.
Jens refuses to speak to him. Point blank.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Doesn't go into that much detail.
Tyler comes back with Tinkoff.
Jens refuses to speak to him. Point blank.
Hamilton's account leaves it pretty ambigous as to why Jens blanks him0 -
Slim Boy Fat wrote:
lol, and is there a bumbling old fool in their mixing the labels up?No tA Doctor wrote:ddraver wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:ddraver wrote:Blimey, He outs Hincapie in Chapter 3!!
(I'm sure this has been covered but I can only get in on kindle so i had to wait...)
Do keep up... Getting shelled out the back and blaming it on your Kindle... :roll:
I'm in sodding Siberia! The local книжный магазин did nt have a copy on 5th Sept!
You're in Fuentes' freezer? What do the labels on the blood bags say?
Hah! Only got to that bit this evening...
Finished it now...pffffff (
)
Dunno really, I suppose I ve been pretty down on cycling for the last few weeks (see my excellent blog post on the subject :P ) and this has nt helped. Started the first chapter of VickyP's book too and that has nt helped either!
I did nt have a high opinion of Hamilton (or Floyd) before reading it and to be honest that has changed a bit. I can understand that he is just the typical know nothing sports kid that does whatever he is told and never thinks about it and I feel bad for him because of that
I would nt have thought my opinion of Armstrong could get any lower but I was wrong there. Horrible horrible man!
I ve come to the conclusion by myself that the UCI are happy to be lenient on cyclists that are well liked recently so that was nt really a shock. Unfortunately what it shows is how much of a mountain we have to climb before we have genuine clean cycling. Even then, I'm not sure that we will like what we find when we get there...
Overall, I was surprised just how unsurprised I was at any of it really, which as somebody said, is really sad!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Doesn't go into that much detail.
Tyler comes back with Tinkoff.
Jens refuses to speak to him. Point blank.
Hamilton's account leaves it pretty ambigous as to why Jens blanks him
Which is good, because Tyler's sticking to what he experienced and not 'making up other people's thoughts for them', I've thought the book has been a good read. Have only got about 15% of it left to read now.0
