Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped
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Lichtblick wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:The prize money is awarded to the winner as an individual, not to the team. The practice is for it to be shared amongst the team. What the rider does with it is really immaterial - that's the rider's look-out - with the money being demanded back of him as an individual (though the thought of Lance asking George, Vaughters, Tyler etc to give back their cuts to him, is very funny
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In Hamilton's book, Lance persuaded him to give his (Hamilton's) cut to Livestrong (making it sound like a cool thing to do) one year. $7,500, $17,500? Can't remember which.
The cheeky fecker!0 -
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UCI and Pro Racing and recreational riding are not to blame for anything. This whole mess was created by human greed.
Yes it may well have been caused by greed. But what do we have the police for ? Thats right to stop a free for all. That's why they have things called rules (and laws in normal life).
That's what the UCI is for. To police the sport enforce the rules and stop a free for all - which is bascially whats happened. They haven't done thier job. Simple really.
Unfortunately, like your local police force, the UCI aren't accounatable to anyone. And therein lies the problem basically.0 -
The problem is that Dennis is a libertarian. If he gets burgled, he'd rather shoot the burglar than get the police involved.0
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The problem with the UCI is not that they were ineffective at policing. The problem was that they were actively allowing armstrong et al to break the rules. The problem is that their key figureheads have attacked people like Paul Kimmage, you know - the people actively trying to SAVE our sport from doping and cheats.
Armstrong was simply their golden goose, i.e. opening the lucrative US market. Professional Cycling cannot recover without completely removing the rotten apples. That includes removing results like Contador's, Pantani's, Riis etc etc and rebuilding the UCI without people like the cunt Pat McQuaid.0 -
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GeorgeShaw wrote:The problem is that Dennis is a libertarian. If he gets burgled, he'd rather shoot the burglar than get the police involved.
Not sure about the libertarian tag, but shoot the guy who just broke into my house?
Not a problem with me.0 -
samiam wrote:The problem with the UCI is not that they were ineffective at policing. The problem was that they were actively allowing armstrong et al to break the rules. The problem is that their key figureheads have attacked people like Paul Kimmage, you know - the people actively trying to SAVE our sport from doping and cheats.
Armstrong was simply their golden goose, i.e. opening the lucrative US market. Professional Cycling cannot recover without completely removing the rotten apples. That includes removing results like Contador's, Pantani's, Riis etc etc and rebuilding the UCI without people like the **** Pat McQuaid.
With Pat/Hein opening up the world to "UCI Cycling"; the UCI could then threaten the 3 major Tours with new races. These races would be paying big bucks bringing in the best riders/teams. Since these new races have begun, the 3 major Tours have put on the back foot and their threat to have a breakaway organisation has been thwarted.
Lance, with his world wide profile has brought the sport to new countries and so, in effect, increased the power of the UCI.
I have laboured the point here but this battle between the UCI and the major Tours may be another part of the puzzle.
Jerry“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
There are no new races with brand identities or "big bucks" that threaten the grand tours.0
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And now Yates departs from Sky http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... inues.htmlOver 50mph on Malaucene descent0
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Le Commentateur wrote:There are no new races with brand identities or "big bucks" that threaten the grand tours.
I'm pretty sure it was RCS Sport (Giro) and ASO ( Tour de France, Vuelta etc) were in dispute with the UCI. I think these 2 organisations were going to run off and leave the UCI to itself. This Wiki page says a bit about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_ProTour
Jerry
PS- Must admit to a hole in my theory is that ASO runs the Tour of Beijing. :?
Just thought I'd throw another theory in the pot to complicate the scenario.
I'm sure there's a bit of this scenario in the pot at some point because as Duffers used to say "Cycling is wheels within wheels" how right was he indeed. “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
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ddraver wrote:Why do i have a nasty feeling you might be voting for someone with a binder full of women in a few days
(when is that anyway?)
Made me laugh
Nov. 6th"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?0 -
I daren't start another thread on this, so I'll put it here.
What do the following think or say about it all:
Gary Imlach
Paul Sherwen
David Harmon
Sean Kelly
Ned Boulting
Daniel Coyle
Does anyone know?0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
What does he have to lose? I imagine there will be some big $$$$$$ kicking around for Autobiography's soon0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?0 -
What do the following think or say about it all:
Gary Imlach
Paul Sherwen
David Harmon
Sean Kelly
Ned Boulting
Daniel Coyle
What about Phil Leggup ? He's the main maaaaaan................maaaaaaaaaaaaan........0 -
itisaboutthebike wrote:What do the following think or say about it all:
Gary Imlach
Paul Sherwen
David Harmon
Sean Kelly
Ned Boulting
Daniel Coyle
What about Phil Leggup ? He's the main maaaaaan................maaaaaaaaaaaaan........
I understand that the latest Liggett beliefs were expressed in an interview shown on Oz telly today, and include:
There's evidence against Lancey but its not PROOF
That the USADA followed up because of pressure from social media
Lancey lied to his face0 -
Don Hein and Pat 'Fat-Faced' McQuaiddennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?0 -
nathancom wrote:
Don Hein and Pat 'Fat-Faced' McQuaiddennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?
So who's the top dog in all this? Who gave the orders to go ahead and dope without worry? And what was in it for whomever it is?0 -
dennisn wrote:nathancom wrote:
Don Hein and Pat 'Fat-Faced' McQuaiddennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?
So who's the top dog in all this? Who gave the orders to go ahead and dope without worry? And what was in it for whomever it is?
Why do you care? Why not just go out and ride your bike?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:dennisn wrote:nathancom wrote:
Don Hein and Pat 'Fat-Faced' McQuaiddennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?
So who's the top dog in all this? Who gave the orders to go ahead and dope without worry? And what was in it for whomever it is?
Why do you care? Why not just go out and ride your bike?
Curiousity, why else? It's too cold and windy here for an old f*rt like me to be out riding.0 -
dennisn wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:dennisn wrote:nathancom wrote:
Don Hein and Pat 'Fat-Faced' McQuaiddennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?
So who's the top dog in all this? Who gave the orders to go ahead and dope without worry? And what was in it for whomever it is?
Why do you care? Why not just go out and ride your bike?
Curiousity, why else? It's too cold and windy here for an old f*rt like me to be out riding.
OK then, just to humour you while you wait for the next hurricane:
The UCI had a vested interest in Lance, he was great publicity, a massive cash cow. Verbruggen cut deals to keep him clear - according to Kimmage, Landis and Hamilton.
Verbruggen, coincidentally, makes a fair amount of cash out of cycling though involvement with a couple of companies (like the one that produced the shit coverage of the Olympic RR).Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
dennisn wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:dennisn wrote:nathancom wrote:
Don Hein and Pat 'Fat-Faced' McQuaiddennisn wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Dave_1 wrote:
Hmmm....care to speculate whether he's just talking b%^&cks - or whether he does have something up his sleeve...bringing down the establishment with him, perhaps?
Hold on a second. I thought it was believed that JB and LA were at the pinnacle of all this. Now you tell me that there is some "establishment", maybe at an even higher level?? Who are these people? Mafia or something along those lines? If true, does this mean that JB, LA, and bunches of other riders are only bit players in this grand scheme? Let's have more info on your "establishment" please. :? :?
So who's the top dog in all this? Who gave the orders to go ahead and dope without worry? And what was in it for whomever it is?
Why do you care? Why not just go out and ride your bike?
Curiousity, why else? It's too cold and windy here for an old f*rt like me to be out riding.
I think it's possible to ride a bike and have opinions on all this.
My theory was that in 1998 the TDF had a really really really bad year. To turn the page on this bad news event, Hein et al saw a certain Cancer Survivor ride a decent Vuelta in that year and "viola" they had a story which will ecclipse the 1998 Tour. Here was where LA/JB were brought in to the inner ring where they would be afforded a clear run at the Tour where dope tests were pre warned and positive tests were made to disappear. For LA/JB they could rack up Tour wins and 1998 would become a distant memory for the UCI.
After a while, the LA story would elevate cycling to a new level bringing bigger bucks for everyone concerned.
That's my theory anyway.
Jerry“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
jerry3571 wrote:I think it's possible to ride a bike and have opinions on all this.
My theory was that in 1998 the TDF had a really really really bad year. To turn the page on this bad news event, Hein et al saw a certain Cancer Survivor ride a decent Vuelta in that year and "viola" they had a story which will ecclipse the 1998 Tour. Here was where LA/JB were brought in to the inner ring where they would be afforded a clear run at the Tour where dope tests were pre warned and positive tests were made to disappear. For LA/JB they could rack up Tour wins and 1998 would become a distant memory for the UCI.
After a while, the LA story would elevate cycling to a new level bringing bigger bucks for everyone concerned.
That's my theory anyway.
Jerry
I can believe something like that. Only problem is that it puts someone pulling LA's strings instead of LA pulling everyones elses, as most on this forum would contend happened. From "bikingbernie" on down, everyone has said that LA was the top of the heap, the chief architect of it all, cycling enemy #1. I've never really thought that idea had any real merit to it. Like you I think I saw someone up the ladder pulling the puppet strings. LA may have simply been their poster child. It also sort of asks the question of who pulls Hein's strings, if anyone? Lots of money out there. Who else gets a cut for services provided?0 -
dennisn wrote:jerry3571 wrote:I think it's possible to ride a bike and have opinions on all this.
My theory was that in 1998 the TDF had a really really really bad year. To turn the page on this bad news event, Hein et al saw a certain Cancer Survivor ride a decent Vuelta in that year and "viola" they had a story which will ecclipse the 1998 Tour. Here was where LA/JB were brought in to the inner ring where they would be afforded a clear run at the Tour where dope tests were pre warned and positive tests were made to disappear. For LA/JB they could rack up Tour wins and 1998 would become a distant memory for the UCI.
After a while, the LA story would elevate cycling to a new level bringing bigger bucks for everyone concerned.
That's my theory anyway.
Jerry
I can believe something like that. Only problem is that it puts someone pulling LA's strings instead of LA pulling everyones elses, as most on this forum would contend happened. From "bikingbernie" on down, everyone has said that LA was the top of the heap, the chief architect of it all, cycling enemy #1. I've never really thought that idea had any real merit to it. Like you I think I saw someone up the ladder pulling the puppet strings. LA may have simply been their poster child. It also sort of asks the question of who pulls Hein's strings, if anyone? Lots of money out there. Who else gets a cut for services provided?
Not really. I don't think anyone contested that LA doped alone, that he didn't have help. He's just the rider that benefited most from doping, and was particularly nasty about covering it up. That's always been my position.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
