Bring on the track events! *spoiler*
Comments
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Was Hindes' Dad from Wigan?
When Hindes smiles, he reminds me of this Speed Demon,
... who, when he first started his career, strangely enough went under the name George Hoy!
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Epic formby fail.
He was from Warrington! God knows why the pies are so keen to claim him, but they're wrong.
Up the Wire!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
What abuses do you suppose would occur? Give or take several metres, and barring extreme cases where one rider simply doesn't have it, the rules enforce the optimal strategy for this event. Don't they?Pross wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Agree to an extent but from a spectator (not a GB) point of view not only this Olympics but the most recent Worlds have been ruined as a spectacle by this rule.Rick Chasey wrote:The team sprint women know the rules, - they f*cked up. > the rules make sense. Stops you fidling about with your leadout - say, letting them only do half a lap or one and a half. Also punishes teams who don't have fast lead outs. If you have the legs to pass your leadout, you'll have to wait.
Agree with this. Surely all the rule needs to say is that the riders must be changing at the end of the lap that would stop blatant abuse without seeing half the teams getting DQd.1968, human content on bitumen.0 -
Those adverts are pretty cool.Contador is the Greatest0
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Forstermann did ride - the bronze medal math
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Just a quick question, why is this thread not in the 'Track' area of the forum? Most people get hyper pedantic when something vear's slightly off topic and track cycing is no where near pro racing.+++++++++++++++++++++
we are the proud, the few, Descendents.
Panama - finally putting a nail in the economic theory of the trickle down effect.0 -
Not quite right, they were second in the time trial, so they were racing next round so were relegeated fromk that so as there were 8 riders they were relegated to 8th so did not qualify.Pross wrote:Saw a replay and VP was half a wheel ahead of JV as they crossed the line. I'm a bit confused now though, was that the semi-final? If so do GB go into the bronze medal race?
EDIT just realised they were time trials rather than match races so everyone behind GB moves up.
The chineese were relegated in the final so were relegated to 2nd to get silver, you get dq'd from the race your in.0 -
Hi Pross, there is an obvious advantage to be gained.Pross wrote:All the rule needs to say is that the riders need to be in the process of changing at the end of the lap. There is no obvious advantage in changing 1m early and it has resulted in 4 teams being DQd. Great ride by the men's team though and fantastic qualifying ride by the team pursuit boys. I wasn't expecting gold in the team sprint, BC coaches showing once again they know how to get riders peaking at the right time. Kenny looking a decent prospect in the sprint if he can get his tactics right, the form is there. Off topic but Kate looking very nice in the VIP box to add icing to the cake
I am not saying this is what happened and am sure Jess's dad will read this and confirm it, but if you imagine the first rider being slower than the opponents first rider by say .2 sec, this is a cou;le of bike lengths which is hard to make up in one lap, so if your first rider can get a good start but then fades towards the end of the lap then the second rider can some through early as possible i.e. at the first 15m marker, reducing time lost.
You could try and blame Jess for going up too early for allowing VP to go through but on th eother hand you can blame VP for being to close to the wheel, which is not the best thing anyway. Look at the mens and you see Hoy leaves a bike length, or two to make a "hole" he can accelerate into just before changeover. Shame as I think GB would have gone faster in the final.
As for the men? will they DQ GB for deliberately falling? I hope not but is it not the same as the Chineese and Korean BAdminton players?
He got a speed wobble on at the start and lost bucket loads of times and in fact I think technically the could have been DQ'd for Hoy and Kenny passing him during his wobble, but maybe JV can answer that on here, but boy did Haines improve next two rides, 3 of them on top form. VP and Jess also flying and pursuit, looks like whole team has peaked perfectly.
Shame the poxy UCI taken the other events out like maddison, scratch, points and individual pursuit and limitted to one rider per nation or we would get loads of medals. That was worst decision ever when you look at swimming, 3 dat eventing etc where you have multiple compettitors per country .0 -
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frenchfighter wrote:Can someone confirm what exactly Victoria did to get DQ?
Is it becauase she was slightly in front before the 2nd lap? If so that is a complete disaster, not least because surely it is a disadvantage and should result in a slower time (as she is drafting for fractionally less time)?
Give me the road any day.
Congratulations on the sprint win for the men. Can't get excited about it though. Going round a track fast for a minute with some ridiculous equipment. Well done. That kid - Hinds I think - did well.
Hindes is also half German so could ride for them if he wanted. How do you go faster at 19 and no experience than the fastest man in the World at the first lap...
Frenchie your as clueless about track as you are road.
It is not a diasadvantage to come out before the end of first lap if your going faster !
The ridiculous equipment you mention is a device with a fram and forks and two wheels, its called a fucking bike!
If you cant get excited about it, you have the remote control button, use it or go for a ride.
How can the 19 yeaolrd go faster that the fastest man in the world? Is this a real question? Just in case it is I will answer, there is a huge difference between being fastest man in world on a flying lap compared to from a standing start, why do you think Jamie Staff was man 1 before?
Also the start is extremely technical out of the gate (?as you may have seen first round when HInes deliberatley fell off after a speed wobble)
He has been working specifically on starts for a year. You can see hug improvement in Jess Varnishes start also due to the work she has put in. Lead off man is totally different to man 2 and three.
You can almost compare it to your druggie idol AC being faster up hill in mt finish and beating fastest man in the world Cav.0 -
Pross wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Agree to an extent but from a spectator (not a GB) point of view not only this Olympics but the most recent Worlds have been ruined as a spectacle by this rule.Rick Chasey wrote:The team sprint women know the rules, - they f*cked up. > the rules make sense. Stops you fidling about with your leadout - say, letting them only do half a lap or one and a half. Also punishes teams who don't have fast lead outs. If you have the legs to pass your leadout, you'll have to wait.
Agree with this. Surely all the rule needs to say is that the riders must be changing at the end of the lap that would stop blatant abuse without seeing half the teams getting DQd.
Would nt it be easier to extedn the 15m lines up the track a bit? Then they could see them. Would nt have helped VP tho as she crossed before the Start/finish line which is pretty bleeding obvious.
Unfortunatly it was a stupid mistake that Team Sk...GB should have thought about but didnt. I'd guarantee that Brailsford will never allow a rider to make that mistake ever again!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
What I find really odd about this, is the sprint team all train at Manchester, with a sprint coaching squad. The men said after the world champs they'd specifically practised the change overs and made sure that they wouldn't get DQ'ed for screwing them up. The women said as they'd never been DQ'ed for it before it wasn't something they were really worried about...ddraver wrote:Would nt it be easier to extedn the 15m lines up the track a bit? Then they could see them. Would nt have helped VP tho as she crossed before the Start/finish line which is pretty bleeding obvious.
Unfortunatly it was a stupid mistake that Team Sk...GB should have thought about but didnt. I'd guarantee that Brailsford will never allow a rider to make that mistake ever again!0 -
Hi.ddraver wrote:Pross wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Agree to an extent but from a spectator (not a GB) point of view not only this Olympics but the most recent Worlds have been ruined as a spectacle by this rule.Rick Chasey wrote:The team sprint women know the rules, - they f*cked up. > the rules make sense. Stops you fidling about with your leadout - say, letting them only do half a lap or one and a half. Also punishes teams who don't have fast lead outs. If you have the legs to pass your leadout, you'll have to wait.
Agree with this. Surely all the rule needs to say is that the riders must be changing at the end of the lap that would stop blatant abuse without seeing half the teams getting DQd.
Would nt it be easier to extedn the 15m lines up the track a bit? Then they could see them. Would nt have helped VP tho as she crossed before the Start/finish line which is pretty bleeding obvious.
Unfortunatly it was a stupid mistake that Team Sk...GB should have thought about but didnt. I'd guarantee that Brailsford will never allow a rider to make that mistake ever again!
Its not bleeding obvious as your allowed to pass by the "start" line. I am not sure why they showed the clip on bbc for both gb and china, the infringement was VP being alongside and not behind JV at the first 15m mark nothing to do with passing at the pursuit start line. The only rule is not to come past at the first 15m mark or to be behind at the last 15m mark, no rule about the start line.0 -
Outsider art by Loan wrote:
What abuses do you suppose would occur? Give or take several metres, and barring extreme cases where one rider simply doesn't have it, the rules enforce the optimal strategy for this event. Don't they?Pross wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Agree to an extent but from a spectator (not a GB) point of view not only this Olympics but the most recent Worlds have been ruined as a spectacle by this rule.Rick Chasey wrote:The team sprint women know the rules, - they f*cked up. > the rules make sense. Stops you fidling about with your leadout - say, letting them only do half a lap or one and a half. Also punishes teams who don't have fast lead outs. If you have the legs to pass your leadout, you'll have to wait.
Agree with this. Surely all the rule needs to say is that the riders must be changing at the end of the lap that would stop blatant abuse without seeing half the teams getting DQd.
You would think so but other people have said the rule is needed to stop people trying 1.5 lap / 0.5 lap turns for example. With the front rider only getting up to speed after about half a lap it may be that teams would try getting them to go a bit further before releasing the final sprinter.0 -
The UCI rules make for difficult understanding!Race procedure
3.2.150 The start shall be taken in the middle of each straight. During the qualifying races, the place of each
team shall be determined by the commissaires. Subsequently, the team having made the best time
in the preceding stage of the competition, shall start in front of the main grandstand.
3.2.151 The riders of each team shall start either side by side or staggered at an angle of 45° behind the startline.
The lateral distance between riders shall be equal and between 1.5 and 2 metres.
(N) The rider, placed on the inside of the track, shall be held by a starting block and shall be the leading rider.
(text modified on 01.01.02; 26.08.04; 10.06.05).
3.2.152 The leading rider shall lead the first lap and move towards the outside of the track and then drop
back to leave the track without hindering the other team.
Men:
The rider that was in second position shall lead the following lap and then he shall drop out in the
same manner.
The third rider shall end the last lap alone.
Women:
The second rider shall end the last lap alone.
(text modified on 19.09.06).
3.2.153 A team shall be relegated to the last place in the stage of the competition if one of the following
infringements has been committed:
1) if a rider draws away by more than 15 metres before the end of the lap that he is to lead
2) if a rider does not draw away by more than 15 metres after the end of the lap that he was supposed
to lead3) if one rider pushes another.
I assume it is the bit in bold that's in question. The BBC certainly made it sound like the problem was VP coming through just before JV completed a full lap. It's surprising as Boardman is usually very good at explaining the technical side of things clearly.0 -
ddraver wrote:
Unfortunatly it was a stupid mistake that Team Sk...GB should have thought about but didnt. I'd guarantee that Brailsford will never allow a rider to make that mistake ever again!
Yes, but it wasn't the first time this has happened in a championships. The men got DQd for something similar at the worlds IIRC, so it shouldn't have been a surprise.
It's sad but we'll probably see a whole bunch of similar decisions in the individual sprint as well (with riders infringing on the sprinters' line). Rule are rules, but when rules are so easy to inadvertently break the race becomes a bit of a joke.0 -
Pross wrote:
I assume it is the bit in bold that's in question. The BBC certainly made it sound like the problem was VP coming through just before JV completed a full lap. It's surprising as Boardman is usually very good at explaining the technical side of things clearly.
Part of the problem is that they weren't able to show the infringement and I don't think they really knew either. I haven't seen any pictures of the 15m changeover.0 -
Pross wrote:The UCI rules make for difficult understanding!Race procedure
3.2.150 The start shall be taken in the middle of each straight. During the qualifying races, the place of each
team shall be determined by the commissaires. Subsequently, the team having made the best time
in the preceding stage of the competition, shall start in front of the main grandstand.
3.2.151 The riders of each team shall start either side by side or staggered at an angle of 45° behind the startline.
The lateral distance between riders shall be equal and between 1.5 and 2 metres.
(N) The rider, placed on the inside of the track, shall be held by a starting block and shall be the leading rider.
(text modified on 01.01.02; 26.08.04; 10.06.05).
3.2.152 The leading rider shall lead the first lap and move towards the outside of the track and then drop
back to leave the track without hindering the other team.
Men:
The rider that was in second position shall lead the following lap and then he shall drop out in the
same manner.
The third rider shall end the last lap alone.
Women:
The second rider shall end the last lap alone.
(text modified on 19.09.06).
3.2.153 A team shall be relegated to the last place in the stage of the competition if one of the following
infringements has been committed:
1) if a rider draws away by more than 15 metres before the end of the lap that he is to lead
2) if a rider does not draw away by more than 15 metres after the end of the lap that he was supposed
to lead3) if one rider pushes another.
I assume it is the bit in bold that's in question. The BBC certainly made it sound like the problem was VP coming through just before JV completed a full lap. It's surprising as Boardman is usually very good at explaining the technical side of things clearly.
You're (all) concentrating and looking at the wrong bit. Very simply, the rule states "The leading rider shall lead the first lap" - if you change early i.e. the next rider takes the lead before the pursuit line, then you're not completing a lap and infringing the rules.I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.0 -
They're allowed to move over 15m before the end of the lap.0
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oldwelshman wrote:Noise
Move along.
I stopped reading after your first line.
Glad you liked the photos.Contador is the Greatest0 -
"So I crashed, I did it on purpose just to get the restart, just to have the fastest ride. It was all planned really," Hindes said when interviewed following the incident.
Needs some PR experience I guess.Contador is the Greatest0 -
So...erm...what?
*The first rider can move up but the second rider cannot overlap before the first 15m
*The second rider cannot go infront of the first before the start/finish line
*The first rider MUST be in front by the second 15m line
Capiche?We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Eddy S wrote:You're (all) concentrating and looking at the wrong bit. Very simply, the rule states "The leading rider shall lead the first lap" - if you change early i.e. the next rider takes the lead before the pursuit line, then you're not completing a lap and infringing the rules.
That was my initial understanding from Boardman's explanation yesterday but OWM reckoned it was the 15m rule that got broken. The riders obviously understand the rule but as a lay person I really can't see that clearly written in the UCI rules above.0 -
ddraver's explanation looks right, but that's not really what the UCI rules say - it just says something about "drawing away", which I think any sensible person would interpret as moving aside. UCI rules-speak plus limited tv coverage means that we're not really going to get any light on it.0
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Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
a lot has been said about the cost of these GB track bikes, but if you look at the tyre clearance there you could easily fit wide tyres and some mudguards and use them year round0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
Has his head fallen off? Maybe they should get some of those midget first aiders to help!
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Ah that early, so you missed my line about your doping idolfrenchfighter wrote:oldwelshman wrote:Noise
Move along.
I stopped reading after your first line.
Glad you liked the photos.0 -
simplified:ddraver wrote:So...erm...what?
*The first rider can move up but the second rider cannot overlap before the first 15m
*The second rider cannot go infront of the first before the start/finish line
*The first rider MUST be in front by the second 15m line
Capiche?
Rider one starts from the gate, rider two next to them or slightly behind.
Rider one goes bollox out until round tlast bend of first lap and gets ready to move to the right.
The 15m marker is barely visib;e normally a little bit of black masking tape, 15m back from the pursitu/sprint start line (middle of the straight and not the bunch finishing line).
The second rider must not come alongside rider one until past this 15m marker which you cant see.
This was the infringement, nothing to do with passing the rider before lap completed as this ie easy to do as rider one eases up and rider two accelerates.
The second marker rule is never an issue but basically means that the secon rider must start to pass rider one by this point.
This stops them getting a tow and only riding 200m technically.
There was allegedly supposed to be discretionary at the olympics but soon as I saw which commissaire it was there was no chance to reverse it.
Some people do not realise hpow hard track can be.
I have seen riders missing the count at the start and either pull the gate out, or just fall out.
I have seen sprinters in the time trial sprint on 2nd lap instead of third and some not sprint at all by mi judging counting 3 laps !! Yes it happens.
I was in a team pursuit final (ok for masters) and I did a 2 lap turn as we were down, and when I swung up for last half lap my team mates at the time thought we finished but we were finishing in back straight not home lol so they stopped half lap early with arms in air.
This is down to pressure and speed your going, sometimes almost passing out.0
