The official TrainerRoad thread

bobones

springtide9 wrote:

Here goes, the .....

Tacx Satori Power / Speed Test Results

Power@ 15km/h 25km/h 35km/h 45km/h
Resistance 1 38 70 110 145
Resistance 2 42 75 114 159
Resistance 3 46 95 132 186
Resistance 4 50 112 178 250
Resistance 5 75 150 230 320
Resistance 6 95 192 295 375
Resistance 7 125 240 370 480
Resistance 8 150 295 438 560
Resistance 9 175 347 510 660
Resistance 10 190 365 545 720

Thanks for this!

I've plotted these values out in Excel and you can clearly see the linear relationship between speed and power on the Tacx Satori. However, other variables are at play (e.g. tyre pressure, roller pressure, temperature etc.) so it's difficult to tell if your figures are more accurate than the ones published by Tacx and how applicable they are to our own setups. Here's the resulting graph and best fit linear equations.


Comparing these values to the one's published in the specs for the Satori on the Taxc website (which I assume the Trainer Road profiles are built from), you can see the lines match up best on levels 7 and 8, and as you said yourself, there is a close match when TR Satori5 profile is used with resistance level 6 on the turbo, and there is also a close match when TR Satori4 profile is used with resistance level 5. These plots show this clearly:


Make of this what you will; however, if TR update their Satori profiles to use your Powertap results, then people using profile levels below 7 can expect to see their FTP numbers drop dramatically!

jezzpalmer

Are there others with Satori trainers and some sort of powermeter that can also do the test to validate these results?

Maybe springtide could do a couple of runs at 5 & 6 with different tyre and roller pressures to see exactly what difference it makes?

mattshrops

What makes you think i have a new toy to play with....

wed http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/100234

thurshttp://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/100724

fri http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/101551

Dropped cathedral into my ftp plan as my short "longer" ride for the week, it was more intensive than i realised so cut short to 2hrs. Looking forward to getting out for a 100 on sunday

Warwickshire Whizzer

Grrrrr. Had to abandon Eclipse tonight as my turbo seems to have developed a horrible grinding noise. May have had it for some time for all I know but as it was my first time indoors with it and sans headphones (Mrs Whizzer out and doesn't want me in the garage with the kids in bed) it was the first time I've heard it. Was really looking forward to Eclipse as well, 3x20 mins in the Sweetspot!

dw300

Warwickshire Whizzer wrote:

Grrrrr. Had to abandon Eclipse tonight as my turbo seems to have developed a horrible grinding noise. May have had it for some time for all I know but as it was my first time indoors with it and sans headphones (Mrs Whizzer out and doesn't want me in the garage with the kids in bed) it was the first time I've heard it. Was really looking forward to Eclipse as well, 3x20 mins in the Sweetspot!

Time for a shiny new turbo!

dw300

Can we share our custom workouts?

I just make a workout for setting new power records for everything up to 10 minutes .. Record Breaker

You'll set your 20min in an FTP test, and longer ones whenever ..

jgsi

dw300 wrote:

Can we share our custom workouts?

I just make a workout for setting new power records for everything up to 10 minutes .. Record Breaker

You'll set your 20min in an FTP test, and longer ones whenever ..

I have recreated the Power profiling designed by Hunter Allen and Dr Coggan .
You can then use the tables in the book to help you determine what kind of rider you are... then use that information to make an informed decision whether you want to concentrate on improving a 'type' eg short term sprinter or time triallist.
Leading onto to this are the 'Fatigue profilings which give you more indications of strengths and weaknesses as long as you know what exactly you want to be in terms of your cycling.

jamienorton

First failure yesterday on Eclipse http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/102055 i dont think a big mac is appropriate fuel, also doing squats for the first time in a while on Friday probably effected me somewhat. Sweetspot my arse, nothing sweet about that.

t.m.h.n.e.t

jamienorton wrote:

First failure yesterday on Eclipse http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/102055 i dont think a big mac is appropriate fuel, also doing squats for the first time in a while on Friday probably effected me somewhat. Sweetspot my ars*, nothing sweet about that.

Hehe that last interval really got you

dw300

JGSI wrote:

dw300 wrote:

Can we share our custom workouts?

I just make a workout for setting new power records for everything up to 10 minutes .. Record Breaker

You'll set your 20min in an FTP test, and longer ones whenever ..

I have recreated the Power profiling designed by Hunter Allen and Dr Coggan .
You can then use the tables in the book to help you determine what kind of rider you are... then use that information to make an informed decision whether you want to concentrate on improving a 'type' eg short term sprinter or time triallist.
Leading onto to this are the 'Fatigue profilings which give you more indications of strengths and weaknesses as long as you know what exactly you want to be in terms of your cycling.

So, can you share that with us? Where's Nate when you need him ..

jgsi

dw300 wrote:

JGSI wrote:

dw300 wrote:

Can we share our custom workouts?

I just make a workout for setting new power records for everything up to 10 minutes .. Record Breaker

You'll set your 20min in an FTP test, and longer ones whenever ..

I have recreated the Power profiling designed by Hunter Allen and Dr Coggan .
You can then use the tables in the book to help you determine what kind of rider you are... then use that information to make an informed decision whether you want to concentrate on improving a 'type' eg short term sprinter or time triallist.
Leading onto to this are the 'Fatigue profilings which give you more indications of strengths and weaknesses as long as you know what exactly you want to be in terms of your cycling.

So, can you share that with us? Where's Nate when you need him ..

I can only show a graphic of my version.. someone did request a TR library version on the forum.
Too knackred to give it any justice at the moment.

dw300

I'd maybe copy that, but I'm guessing I'd need the book to make any use of it.

Rode the Record Breaker workout .. impossible to put in a good effort for the 10min interval .. was 0.97IF for the 1hr without it.

I felt pretty queezy after the 5min interval and didnt even get a record during it, so might drop it out and increase the rest periods to make the most of the other intervals.

My 5s power is pretty pish, but i'm a climber so no big surprise there.

jgsi

Busy day ..endeth with this
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/103140
This morning, tried the Sartori on 7. Obviously harder.... it moves the magnet to increase the load, but apart from that , I lost that sense of fluency in riding that I get on 5.
SO if the numbers do go lower if TR redo the power curve, I dont really care.
I carried someone's Cycleops Fluid pro on Saturday ... a bit lighter than the Sartori!

kleinstroker

dw300 wrote:

Can we share our custom workouts?

I just make a workout for setting new power records for everything up to 10 minutes .. Record Breaker

You'll set your 20min in an FTP test, and longer ones whenever ..

Sweet! Downloaded and saved! Don't know when I'll get a chance to try it out though

dw300

kleinstroker wrote:

dw300 wrote:

Can we share our custom workouts?

I just make a workout for setting new power records for everything up to 10 minutes .. Record Breaker

You'll set your 20min in an FTP test, and longer ones whenever ..

Sweet! Downloaded and saved! Don't know when I'll get a chance to try it out though

I'm not sure that download button allows you to ride the workout .. does it? At any rate, I'm going to tweak it, as its currently impossible to finish.

kleinstroker

Damn! It seems you are right. But why have a download button?

jgsi

You can then upload into Strava for ride logging or Golden Cheetah for training analysis

mattshrops

Still had some tiredness in the legs from sunday -not surprising with a TSS of 407.

Anyway todays effort
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/103623
Pretty tough workout with the rest intervals only 45secs.

jamienorton

Just finished Tunnabora http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/103728 Still felt a bit weak after a messy weekend, but snuck in a cheeky 30second seated sprint at the very end. Definitely enjoy the 1 hour sessions a lot more that the 90 mins. Tried to do the ILT bit at the beginning and found it hard to get into a rhythm. Think i need to look into adjusting some things on the bike, got a very slight ache in my left knee atm.

jezzpalmer

mattshrops wrote:

Still had some tiredness in the legs from sunday -not surprising with a TSS of 407.

Quite, the missus and myself did the Dragon Ride Medio route on Sunday (TSS of 563 apparently) and it's buggered up my trainerroading schedule.
Though I hope to do Guyat later this eve though.

dw300

Another Eichorn. A slightly tweaked version.

Feel like I might be able to maintain, or at worst only loose a slight bit of form on 2 hours a week with the odd harder week thrown in. I'm talking power output for rides of about an hour. I dare say my long ride endurance is suffering, but I'm not too fussed about that at this stage of the year.

I can feel the motivation ebbing away with not having a ride to try and peak for. Someone work out how we can have some sort of TR competition and have it be a level playing field ..

jgsi

Motivation is the issue this time of year, coupled with the general hatefulness of November month but using Golden Cheetah, fitness is still on upward trend.
To make all the training hours significant:
entry for a local Xmas '10' - (weather permitting)
keeping an eye open for a new race build for next season - a Canyon with di2 is flavour at the moment.
awaiting the race calendars
renewing race licences

lots of things you can do until the year turns and things get underway again...
oh January is the time when the reliabilities start ....

shazzz

Hi
For anyone interested, I did an accidental VP vs measured power comparison last night. Just received my powertap back from a service and fitted to the bike, but forgot to switch trainerroad back from VP to actual power meter reading. I had removed the GSC10 from my bike, so the cadence / speed used must have been as reported by the PT. Turbo is a KK Rock n Roll with the extra flywheel, workout was Thunder. Here are the results:

Interval, Time (mins), VP, AP, Difference

1, 3, 214, 225, -11
2, 4, 216, 221, -5
3, 4, 236, 235, 1
4, 4, 229, 220, 9
5, 4, 241, 236, 5
6, 4, 234, 229, 5
7, 4, 240, 235, 5
8, 4, 234, 230, 4
9, 4, 247, 246, 1

So, pretty close! Esp as I hadn't taken any steps to try to get it dialled in - although I'm not sure what I would have done differently. It was interesting that the VP actually under-reported at the start. I had expected the opposite.

PS - on motivation, I am finding the combination of TR, following a defined plan, and tracking progress through WKO is hugely motivating even though I don't have any targets until May.

Trev The Rev

Too much PMRB caused by EDRI.

Garryboy

Did an extra session this morning (nearly completed base I) - sufferfest 'Hunted' - set intensity to 90%

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/104358

Wanted this to be more of a sweet spot ride, hence setting intensity to 90% - what does everyone else do when using sufferfest vids & TR?

markp80

dw300 wrote:

I can feel the motivation ebbing away with not having a ride to try and peak for. Someone work out how we can have some sort of TR competition and have it be a level playing field ..

- Have you considered following one of the plans? I find that helps me stay motivated.
Can't work out how to do a competition. We need distance along the bottom of a workout rather than time, with progress then governed by speed. I suspect that would be tricky to implement though, and kind of changes the program from TrainerRoad to RacingRoad!

shazzz wrote:

Hi
For anyone interested, I did an accidental VP vs measured power comparison last night.
Turbo is a KK Rock n Roll with the extra flywheel, workout was Thunder. Here are the results:

Interval, Time (mins), VP, AP, Difference

1, 3, 214, 225, -11
2, 4, 216, 221, -5
3, 4, 236, 235, 1
4, 4, 229, 220, 9
5, 4, 241, 236, 5
6, 4, 234, 229, 5
7, 4, 240, 235, 5
8, 4, 234, 230, 4
9, 4, 247, 246, 1

So, pretty close! Esp as I hadn't taken any steps to try to get it dialled in - although I'm not sure what I would have done differently. It was interesting that the VP actually under-reported at the start. I had expected the opposite.

PS - on motivation, I am finding the combination of TR, following a defined plan, and tracking progress through WKO is hugely motivating even though I don't have any targets until May.

Could the initial under-reporting be due to the fluid being cold? VP would be expecting the turbo to be easier to turn, whereas in reality the viscous fluid made it stiffer, hence higher real power? I know the KK is supposed to be relatively unaffected by temp, but there must be some effect, and this does go after only a few minutes.

Now, what we really want you to do is the same test with one turn more and one turn less on the tyre clamp, to see how the results are affected. Then varying the tyre pressure! That would be really interesting, if you've got nothing better to do with your time, obviously!

I'm with you on the motivation too.

Cheers,
MarkP

jgsi

Garryboy wrote:

Did an extra session this morning (nearly completed base I) - sufferfest 'Hunted' - set intensity to 90%

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/104358

Wanted this to be more of a sweet spot ride, hence setting intensity to 90% - what does everyone else do when using sufferfest vids & TR?

Not to use Sufferfest basically.
YouTube has plenty of Tour and Giro and Classics that are 1 to 3 hours in length
this is 1 of my favourites to ride to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6p-HMxe ... plpp_video

markp80

So, after last week's FAIL on 90 minutes of Beacon, last night we smashed it!
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/104006
Take that TrainerRoad! :twisted:

I plan to make a start on Intermediate Base II next week, so I couldn't finish Base I with defeat, although work commitments over the next few weeks may limit me to just two rides/week.

Cheers,
MarkP

Garryboy

JGSI wrote:

Garryboy wrote:

Did an extra session this morning (nearly completed base I) - sufferfest 'Hunted' - set intensity to 90%

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/104358

Wanted this to be more of a sweet spot ride, hence setting intensity to 90% - what does everyone else do when using sufferfest vids & TR?

Not to use Sufferfest basically.
YouTube has plenty of Tour and Giro and Classics that are 1 to 3 hours in length
this is 1 of my favourites to ride to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6p-HMxe ... plpp_video

Cheers - I will have a go at that to mix things up a little, but I do like the 'fest videos and the fact the integrate with TR, just wanted to know if most folk stick with 100% or dial it down a little?

shazzz

MarkP80 wrote:

Could the initial under-reporting be due to the fluid being cold? VP would be expecting the turbo to be easier to turn, whereas in reality the viscous fluid made it stiffer, hence higher real power? I know the KK is supposed to be relatively unaffected by temp, but there must be some effect, and this does go after only a few minutes.

Now, what we really want you to do is the same test with one turn more and one turn less on the tyre clamp, to see how the results are affected. Then varying the tyre pressure! That would be really interesting, if you've got nothing better to do with your time, obviously!

I'm with you on the motivation too.

Cheers,
MarkP

That seems to make sense. Not sure why I was expecting the opposite effect!
I'll let you know if I do any more VP testing. For info, I had the tyre (Conti Trainer) at 110psi and cranked down the clamp with four half turns last night.