The official TrainerRoad thread

dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
Ok, so I was going to get the Garmin GSC10 and Garmin ANT+ USB stick and sign up to TrainerRoad, but since I'd planned on upgrading to a Garmin 500 at some point I just went ahead and bought the HR/Cad bundle (£203 on Wiggle with 10% voucher code) since it works out cheaper than getting the GSC10 and buying the 500 and HR monitor separately later on. Stuff gets delivered tomorrow!

So, perhaps anyone that uses TR could post their setup and talk about how they use it, what programs they like and what results they're getting? I know JGSI and T.M.H.N.E.T. are users from another thread. I determined to get a proper winter's training this year.

For anyone who doesn't know here's a brief video of what it does (90 secs), and here's a longer one (17 mins).

I'll start .. with my set up ..

Trainer : Elite Crono Fluid Elastogel (#95 on their supported trainer list .. Elite Fluid Alu AKA Chrono Fluid ElastoGel)
Receiver : Garmin ANT+ USB
Laptop : Old Macbook (requires OSX 10.6 minimum for TR)
ANT+ Speed Cadence Sensor : Garmin GSC10
ANT+ HR Monitor : Garmin (not sure of the model yet)

Will try to do the 20 minute test tomorrow ..
All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
Bike Radar Strava Club
The Northern Ireland Thread
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Posts

  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,031
    More than happy to assist... :D
    Using a Tacx sartori with a Trainerroad setting of it on resistance level 4 for 'proxy' power readout.
    Windows 7 with the Garmin USB stick / GSC10 for speed and cadence and from today a Garmin HRM.

    So at the moment following a TR plan based on 'novice' competitor with a TSS average of 331 weekly and just over 5 hours volume weekly.
    I have only a few more races left on the calendar so this helps with keeping things ticking over nicely.
    To get a base of FTP, I did the tR '20 minute' test although it takes an hour to complete and wasnt exactly pleasant.

    Pro - gives much much more focus in your Turbo workouts with the information feedback.
    Con - well the power readout is not going to be SRM standard!
  • mzm70mzm70 Posts: 123
    edited August 2012
    Just signed up for the 1 month trial, my setup:
    KK R&R
    Macbook Air + ANT+ USB stick + GSC10 + Powertap

    First tryout this morning, actually very impressed. What's also nice is they have integrated Sufferfest videos (you need to own the video first). On the surface there's a large portfolio of sessions, there are also training programs utilizing these sessions.

    The session is also uploaded to their web site and all the detailed training information is available online.
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Using that turbo trainer to estimate power is a bit of a joke. I know that since I have one and a proper power meter. I assume that all that TrainerRoad do is get hold of the manufacturers power profile and use that to estimate power?

    FWIW here's speed (top graph) with constant power (apart from the last minute or so of each interval where power goes up a bit) with my Elite Supercrono turbo:

    Elite%2BSupercrono%2Bpower%2Band%2Bspeed%2Bdrift.JPG

    And the same with a Cycleops Fluid 2:

    Fluid+2+NO+power+and+speed+drift.JPG


    So while some turbos can give a meaningful power figure using speed, the Elite fluid trainer is IME not one of those. You'd probably be better to use RPE than the highly temperature dependent power figure you'll get from TrainerRoad for that turbo.
    More problems but still living....
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,031
    Trainer Road do say:
    "We give three ways to train at TrainerRoad. Power, VirtualPower and heart rate.

    Power
    Hands down, training with a power meter is the best way to push yourself to the next level. It's accuracy is second to none. If you're training with power, 200 watts is 200 watts. It doesn't matter if your tired, at a different altitude or at the end of a race. The laws of physics don't change.

    The downside is that power meters start at about $700 and go up to $3000+. It's a large investment.

    VirtualPower
    If you don't have a power meter, we think VirtualPower is the next best thing. If you keep your setup consistent, you can get consistent power numbers. You still get the advantages of workout numbers that aren't affected by how tired you are.

    Heart Rate
    Heart rate is still good. Some people swear by it. We don't like that it takes a while for your heart to respond to intervals. If you're doing short intervals, it's very hard to gauge the correct output.

    Another thing that's tough is heart rate drift. As you do more intervals, your avg hr for each interval goes up. To see an example, just check out our ride feed. You'll notice that someone's power output stays consistent for 4 intervals, but each interval has a high average heart rate.

    If you workout with heart rate now, I suggest you give VirtualPower a test. I think you'll like it."

    I have seen comment about the Elite and the way it responds as not being , let's say, the best to put it politely.
    I don't have an issue with my simple as mag sartori.. easy to keep things constant.
  • I`ve just signed up for the trainer road.
    Using windows 7
    Garmin ant+ stick
    Powertap pro+

    I thought I would give it go to make things more interesting on the turbo.So far so good it`s a nice system It still needs a little fine tuning but If I have come across a bug and mailed them they have got straight back to me.to help with the problem.
    If trainer roads "virtual trainer power" is on the high side compared to real powertap,SRM figures this wouldn`t matter as you have something to work with consistently week on week to monitor your progression.
    All in all I`m finding it as great tool to help with my training.
    I`ve only been riding since the 1st of Jan so I need all the help I can get, to help take my mind of the pain that riding bikes gives us!!
    I hope all that makes sense as writing isn`t my strong point
  • dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Don't get me wrong .. I don't expect that a £130 turbo will help give accurate power readings compared to a Powertap or SRM. I'm really just looking for something to give structured workouts. I'm considering getting my hands on a Powertap sometime in the distant future if I can afford it and if I think it will give a further edge.

    How much do you think the error involved will affect results between the same workout on the same set up? I assume that the harder you work and the more heat, the less resistance you'll have?
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,031
    The more workouts you do, the more you get to 'recognise' the effort levels involved.
    The numbers are there to keep your training on track rather than 'bragging' rights.
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    Neither of your links work!

    Not a TR user yet! Been waiting for some OT to go into my wages then I'm off to a well known auction site. TBH I don't think my turbo is even listed but what matters is things stay constant. Makes little difference to me if the readings are out,as long as they go up.

    I was actually considering a total upgrade to Garmin 500 or Bryton Rider50T, until I chanced upon a YT vid that shows how to swap the Bryton sensor between speed or cadence. I think I'd much rather have them both!
  • dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Neither of your links work!

    Not a TR user yet! Been waiting for some OT to go into my wages then I'm off to a well known auction site. TBH I don't think my turbo is even listed but what matters is things stay constant. Makes little difference to me if the readings are out,as long as they go up.

    I was actually considering a total upgrade to Garmin 500 or Bryton Rider50T, until I chanced upon a YT vid that shows how to swap the Bryton sensor between speed or cadence. I think I'd much rather have them both!

    Links fixed. One's the video you previously linked me to.

    Apparently my package checked into Citylink at 1506 .. hopefully it'll be delivered today since I've stayed in all day based on their predicted delivery date.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • Using trainerroad with Lemond Revolution, Garmin GSC10, Bontrager ANT+ speed sensor and Garmin ANT+ USB stick.

    Using it to recover from a shoulder injury and keep fit until I can get back out on the road.

    Seems good so far, have also bought some of the sufferfest videos.
  • GarryboyGarryboy Posts: 344
    Been using trainer road for about a month and really like it.

    Im using it with

    Cyclops jetfluid pro
    Garmin 500
    Garmin gsc10
    Garmin hrm
    Dell mini netbook
    Garmin usb stick
    Sufferfest vids

    I find I push myself more and stick to the structure of the workout. Previously I would get hung up on my overall average mph, rather than ensuring the intervals were intense enough.

    Will be using it more than I'd prefer in next couple of weeks as my only road worthy bike is knack'd (sram rival rear shifter failed).
  • GiantMikeGiantMike Posts: 3,139
    Is TR a download or do you have to be online to use it?
  • t.m.h.n.e.tt.m.h.n.e.t Posts: 2,265
    GiantMike wrote:
    Is TR a download or do you have to be online to use it?
    Download + 10$ a month subscription
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,031
    And when you install the application on pc/mac, it can be used off-line as it stores a local database with the various workouts and synch up later.
  • at this point i have to declare my hand.

    at no stage do i understand this thread. i'm a ludite and ride a bicycle.

    and for that reason...... i'm out..... :oops:
  • So DW300 have you had a ride on TR yet?

    Whats all your names ON TR so I can check your rides out?
  • dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Ha, yeh, I just did my first TR ride ..

    I went out about 1930 for a ride, and punctured after 16 miles, less than 5 mins walk from home, so I just walked it in. Then I watched a bit of the Olympics and jumped on the trainer after I'd changed my tube.

    I did the '20 Minute Test' at about midnight. I guessed my FTP to be about 170 (lol, yes I'm a lightweight) based on Strava's estimation for on the road TT efforts, but put in 160 as I was feeling lazy and didn't want to hurt too much. I also figured it didn't really matter at this point since the test is for calculation FTP anyway.

    Jumped on, did the first half hour and thought it felt about right, maybe a little easy. It was looking for me to sustain 170W for the 20 mins, but I tried to hold it around 190 to start with and gradually let it slide. Averaged 182W for the 20 mins.

    A few thoughts went through my head during the test ..

    1. Half way through the 20 minute part i had a pain right in my left knee cap. I've had it before once or twice, but as long as it doesn't get too sore I just work through it, which I did.

    2. I had another pain in a tendon behind my right knee. I've had that a lot too, usually when I don't get a break from pedalling for a long time. Probably just a bit of tendinitis.

    2b. My HR didn't go above 170. My max is about 185-188, and I can sustain 180+ on the road for a number of minutes. But on the trainer I just couldn't push it harder, not because of heart or lung limitations, but because my legs hurt.

    3. I'm going to turn the 'pedal to start' function off so that I can take breaks from pedalling during the rest periods, if I start to hurt.

    4. My ar$e really hurt!

    Soooo .. even though I do about 90 miles a week, plus a couple of light trainer sessions, I was completely unprepared for a tough trainer session. But being able to stand up or stop pedalling should see those ache's and pains right.

    But I think this has highlighted a weakness. I get by by spinning everywhere. When I'm out and there's a headwind I simply slow down if I'm solo. I wheelsuck if I'm in a group! I like putting my effort in on climbs instead. Riding the trainer in that big a gear feels like riding into a stiff headwind .. feels more a strain on my legs than my fitness.

    Has avoiding pushing the big gears been to my detriment? I am getting faster, but am I limiting my progress? I usually avoid it to reduce recovery times so I can get out more.

    Is there a difference between generating x amount of power spinning up a steep climb, compared to churning along on the flat? I know that some people say that that big gear training is useless, and you'll go further by spinning. But I'm having second thoughts.

    Any advice?

    PS. I'm dw300 on TR.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • EyoreroxEyorerox Posts: 43
    Some more discussion
    I could not find the Tacx satoris on Trainer Road
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/genera ... 70667.html
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,031
    Eyorerox wrote:
    Some more discussion
    I could not find the Tacx satoris on Trainer Road
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/genera ... 70667.html

    In your Trainer Road profile page you just choose the Turbo or trainer you have... Sartori is there in the list
    1el4A.jpg
    The 4 refers to the resistance setting you want to use from 1 to 10.
    On 4 , it is enough for me to use the gearing on the bike to mimic best the 'road feel'

    The main issue with longer turbo sessions is the tendency to stay rooted in 1 position all the time.. this leads to mega discomfort.. for me anything over 60 minutes is a bit of a challenge... you see guys doing the 3 hour workouts and wondering.. not for me.
    The most recommended trainer appears to the Kurt Kinetic.. however that is one pricey trainer!
  • phy2sll2phy2sll2 Posts: 680
    So, has anyone done one or more of their 'plans'?

    I like the idea of integration with sufferfest, but without that sort of motivation, I can't imagine myself bashing out three workouts a week on the trainer.
  • dw300 wrote:
    Ha, yeh, I just did my first TR ride ..

    I went out about 1930 for a ride, and punctured after 16 miles, less than 5 mins walk from home, so I just walked it in. Then I watched a bit of the Olympics and jumped on the trainer after I'd changed my tube.

    I did the '20 Minute Test' at about midnight. I guessed my FTP to be about 170 (lol, yes I'm a lightweight) based on Strava's estimation for on the road TT efforts, but put in 160 as I was feeling lazy and didn't want to hurt too much. I also figured it didn't really matter at this point since the test is for calculation FTP anyway.

    Jumped on, did the first half hour and thought it felt about right, maybe a little easy. It was looking for me to sustain 170W for the 20 mins, but I tried to hold it around 190 to start with and gradually let it slide. Averaged 182W for the 20 mins.

    A few thoughts went through my head during the test ..

    1. Half way through the 20 minute part i had a pain right in my left knee cap. I've had it before once or twice, but as long as it doesn't get too sore I just work through it, which I did.

    2. I had another pain in a tendon behind my right knee. I've had that a lot too, usually when I don't get a break from pedalling for a long time. Probably just a bit of tendinitis.

    2b. My HR didn't go above 170. My max is about 185-188, and I can sustain 180+ on the road for a number of minutes. But on the trainer I just couldn't push it harder, not because of heart or lung limitations, but because my legs hurt.

    3. I'm going to turn the 'pedal to start' function off so that I can take breaks from pedalling during the rest periods, if I start to hurt.

    4. My ar$e really hurt!

    Soooo .. even though I do about 90 miles a week, plus a couple of light trainer sessions, I was completely unprepared for a tough trainer session. But being able to stand up or stop pedalling should see those ache's and pains right.

    But I think this has highlighted a weakness. I get by by spinning everywhere. When I'm out and there's a headwind I simply slow down if I'm solo. I wheelsuck if I'm in a group! I like putting my effort in on climbs instead. Riding the trainer in that big a gear feels like riding into a stiff headwind .. feels more a strain on my legs than my fitness.

    Has avoiding pushing the big gears been to my detriment? I am getting faster, but am I limiting my progress? I usually avoid it to reduce recovery times so I can get out more.

    Is there a difference between generating x amount of power spinning up a steep climb, compared to churning along on the flat? I know that some people say that that big gear training is useless, and you'll go further by spinning. But I'm having second thoughts.

    Any advice?

    PS. I'm dw300 on TR.

    Advice would be,Start at eliminating riding pain getting your bike fit spot on.
    You may have already done all this but maybe you could rework things again.
    Make sure cleats on shoes have the balls of your feet central to peddle axle.
    Feel your kneecap and just below it on the outer side of the knee cap is a bone that sticks out slightly take a piece of string with a weight on the bottom and their should be a straight line from that bone to the pedal axle.
    Get someone else to check it whilst your sat properly on your bike.
    This should then rule out knee pains.
    Your right about sitting at the back of the pack on club runs on the flat get up front and do some work into the wind.It will make you strong!!
    Big gear work will make your legs stronger.If you keep training the same way then you will keep with the same results you need to mix things up to get stronger.
    I strongly recommend the 20 minute power accelerator plan on TR... if you follow it to the T you will progress to the next level.
    I`m PendlePunisher on TR
  • dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
    Advice would be,Start at eliminating riding pain getting your bike fit spot on.
    You may have already done all this but maybe you could rework things again.
    Make sure cleats on shoes have the balls of your feet central to peddle axle.
    Feel your kneecap and just below it on the outer side of the knee cap is a bone that sticks out slightly take a piece of string with a weight on the bottom and their should be a straight line from that bone to the pedal axle.
    Get someone else to check it whilst your sat properly on your bike.
    This should then rule out knee pains.
    Your right about sitting at the back of the pack on club runs on the flat get up front and do some work into the wind.It will make you strong!!
    Big gear work will make your legs stronger.If you keep training the same way then you will keep with the same results you need to mix things up to get stronger.
    I strongly recommend the 20 minute power accelerator plan on TR... if you follow it to the T you will progress to the next level.
    I`m PendlePunisher on TR

    Thanks for the advice, i'll give those things a try. It'll be interesting to try something different and see what performance difference it makes.

    As far as set up goes, i recently bought a new inline seat post to get me further forward, however I think I could probably go forward more. I could probably do with shorter cranks I reckon. I might change them when my chainring needs changed next. Can you get a seat post with forward offset?

    Can you not 'follow' people on TR?
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
    phy2sll2 wrote:
    So, has anyone done one or more of their 'plans'?

    I like the idea of integration with sufferfest, but without that sort of motivation, I can't imagine myself bashing out three workouts a week on the trainer.

    I'd kinda like to maybe 3 road rides a week and maybe 1-2 trainer sessions per week during the summer. So I'm looking for one that might let me do that. I've not read their advice on combining road and trainer work yet.
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
  • Dw300 Ive been training since 1st jan this year and I have found that the turbo has been the key factor in helPing develop my ftp.i think most coaches have you doing turbo work as on the road there are variables.on the turbo conditions don't change and you can't stop pedalling or it shows in the results.Two structured turbo sessions a week will give you a very good return in fitness.
  • dw300 wrote:
    Can you not 'follow' people on TR?

    Nate from TrainerRoad here. You can't follow people on TrainerRoad, but that sounds really cool! :) We should do that :).

    Would you want notices of their rides sent to you? Or more like a "buddy" list where you can see a ride feed of all of the people you follow? I'm thinking the latter.
  • GiantMike wrote:
    Is TR a download or do you have to be online to use it?

    Hey Mike, to be more specific you just have to have the software connect to the internet once a month to validate license. Besides that, you can do all of your workouts without an internet connection.
  • dw300 wrote:
    Can you not 'follow' people on TR?

    Nate from TrainerRoad here. You can't follow people on TrainerRoad, but that sounds really cool! :) We should do that :).

    Would you want notices of their rides sent to you? Or more like a "buddy" list where you can see a ride feed of all of the people you follow? I'm thinking the latter.

    Nate that sounds like a plan to me.A buddy list and notification of rides would be fantastic!!
    You also need to work on the rides page because I cannot access page 2 or beyond.
    Viewing other members rides is very motivational The bug needs sorting ASAP thanks.
  • mikey2341mikey2341 Posts: 170
    I can't wait to have a go on this as soon as I get a turbo, would the cycleops jel fluid pro be a good place to start?
  • dw300dw300 Posts: 1,642
    dw300 wrote:
    Can you not 'follow' people on TR?

    Nate from TrainerRoad here. You can't follow people on TrainerRoad, but that sounds really cool! :) We should do that :).

    Would you want notices of their rides sent to you? Or more like a "buddy" list where you can see a ride feed of all of the people you follow? I'm thinking the latter.

    Nate .. I like the buddy list and then a ride feed. As with most things on the 'net or with apps, the less clicks people have to do, the better. Either have a feed as the default screen after log in, or perhaps have a 'Social' tab in the users page.

    As a huge stats geek, I'd love to see comparative times and efforts pulled out of a database of people matching your age, physical attributes and equipment.

    I know you're all about training, but being able to upload ride data on the fly somehow, and have live races where you challenge your buddies could turn this into a PS3 beater! ;)
    All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
    Bike Radar Strava Club
    The Northern Ireland Thread
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