The official TrainerRoad thread

badly_dubbed

just did the 8min test....no sure if i did good/bad/terrible.....gave it my all, first 8min test you can see i went a bit light then brought it up, then second i hit it from go.

TrainerRoad suggested an FTP of 295w after this which i updated and gives me 3.39w/Kg(good bad???) ......so howcome it give an average power as 174w for the workout? or is this completely different? i guess this is the avg power of the whole workout including the rest periods? ....new to this lol

heres the workout, id like some feedback from you guys, good or bad!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/96250

ExigeR

Yeah the 174w is the average of all the workout.

Roubaixsl3

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

Roubaixsl3 wrote:

When it comes to repeating the 20 minute FTP test, is it necessary to dial in what FTP you think you can achieve, or should you just leave it at your current FTP and put in the max effort irrespective of the target Watts being displayed during the test ?. Does the software calculate your new FTP irrespective of what you enter before the test ?.

Work at your current but obviously go as hard as you can maintain. TR will calculate any change.

Thanks, I did just that. I only did the test first time on Sunday but as it was my first time on the turbo and on TR I wasn't quite sure how to pace it. So I realy dug deep this time and ended up with a FTP of 278, up from 255 on Sunday. This really was me on the limit so now have the benchmark set for future improvements. Taking the figures with a pinch of salt though as this gives me a power/weight ratio of 4.96 but as a personal marker it's a good reference.
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/96300

themogulman

I had been using a Supermagneto Pro on Trainerroad but broke it due to my immense power!
I have replaced it with a KK Road machine. I am have a few issues with how many turns on the knob do I do.

I have read that 5 is going to give the most acurate results but it was on so tight it was bumping on the tube valve, and it was giving lots of resistance. I went back to 3 turns and it felt "right".

Just done a session tonight and I am pretty sure the Supermagneto was giving a higher power reading than the KKRM cause it was super hard work. I am going to do another test based on 3 turns and go from there.

Anyone else had similar issues? How many knob turns are KKRM users doing?

manxshred

I use the wheel slip test. Spin the wheel by hand slowly then suddenly change direction. If the wheel slips, tighten until it doesn't slip any more.

Trev The Rev

http://www.trainerroad.com/virtual-power

What is VirtualPower™?
VirtualPower™ turns your indoor cycling trainer into a power meter. Just hook up an ANT+ speed sensor and select your trainer from the list of power sources. When you start to ride, your speed will be converted to power based on the known power curve for the trainer.

How does this work?
Every trainer gets harder the faster you go. We've quantified this resistance curve into a formula that is specific to your trainer. This allows us to plug in your current speed and output watts. We've built this into our software so it happens on the fly and is seamless to you.

How accurate is it?
In our unscientific tests with our power taps and Kurt Kinetic Road Machines we were within 3 avg watts for our intervals...so pretty darn accurate. You can get a run down on the Kurt Kinetic Virtual Power Curve here.


In our unscientific tests..............

What about in the scientific tests? One assumes these were pretty darn inaccurate - otherwise they would be quoted.

markp80

themogulman wrote:

I had been using a Supermagneto Pro on Trainerroad but broke it due to my immense power!
I have replaced it with a KK Road machine. I am have a few issues with how many turns on the knob do I do.

I have read that 5 is going to give the most acurate results but it was on so tight it was bumping on the tube valve, and it was giving lots of resistance. I went back to 3 turns and it felt "right".

Just done a session tonight and I am pretty sure the Supermagneto was giving a higher power reading than the KKRM cause it was super hard work. I am going to do another test based on 3 turns and go from there.

Anyone else had similar issues? How many knob turns are KKRM users doing?

I use three complete turns on mine, with the tyre at 105psi. I hear a slight squeek when I accelerate hard, which I suspect is a bit of slip, but it's only for a split second before it grips again, so I'm happy with this setting. When you say "the most accurate results" though, what are you actually looking for? I check tyre pressure every Monday, make sure the bike is clamped in the frame tight first, then clamp the tyre by the same number of turns. This is to eliminate as much varialbility from session to session, so that all my rides are comparable to each other. The specific accuracy compared to say a power meter isn't so important in this case, as I'm looking to measure my own personal improvement, not so much how I compare to other people.

Perhaps most importantly, VR is used to set your training zones, so again, repeatability is the key. Do the FTP test, set your FTP, then do the workouts at the levels it shows. Again, absolute accuracy of power is irrelevant. You just need repeatability so that the levels are set according to the original test conditions.

Having said that, I raised the issue with Nate on the support forum as to how much the VR power varies with say tyre pressure and clamping force. They're currently doing some tests to investigate this, and will publish them in due course. It's worth having a look on there to see what he has to say. However, they do seem to put a degree of faith in VR, especially in relation to the KKRM, unscientific or not. How accurate do you want?

Cheers,
MarkP

markp80

Trev The Rev wrote:

http://www.trainerroad.com/virtual-power
In our unscientific tests..............

What about in the scientific tests? One assumes these were pretty darn inaccurate - otherwise they would be quoted.

- I'm sure the guys at TR would be happy to answer that, but I think this is a bit of semantics

themogulman

I know the only way to get a new base setting will be to re-test and that I need to keep tyre pressure etc the same etc etc and that due to VP its the base setting that matters.

However my point was has anyone done any "scientific tests" to calibrate the KKRM to be as acurate as possible.

On the TR blog there is a section regarding the KKRM and a "slow down test" and the measurement of time taken for the machine to slow down. Has anyone done this?

Anyway I will retest and contact KK and Trainerroad and report back if I get any extra info.

markp80

Sorry, I maybe misunderstood your post. I thought you were asking about the number of turns people were using on their KKRM, which I tried to answer.

I asked Nate how Virtual Power was affected by tyre clamping force, which he has answered. Have a look at the comments on this part of Trainer Road support, this might be of interest -

http://support.trainerroad.com/entries/ ... rtualpower

Cheers,
MarkP

themogulman

Cheers for the link MarkP.

Spot on info that i was looking for.

I am finding that 5 turns just is too much for the tyre and for my legs at my current FTP however I was running the tyres at 120psi.

The amount of turns does have a significant effect so it would be nice to have some feedback from KK and Trainerroad re-set up for the most acurate VP possible.

I will re-test on Friday with 3 turns and 110psi and see what I get. I have a feeling its going to be 10-15% lower FTP than my Supermagneto Pro FTP(i did think it was a bit high).

wardieboy

ManxShred wrote:

I use the wheel slip test. Spin the wheel by hand slowly then suddenly change direction. If the wheel slips, tighten until it doesn't slip any more.

Snap! I set mine so that it just stops slipping with the tyre inflated to 100 psi.

springtide9

Back from holiday last night so had another go on TR. Thought I'd do a quick test with Virtual Power vs PowerTap as I want to use the PT back on the road (and don't want the hassle of changing tyres)

Trainer Road Virtual Power (Tacx Satori Resistance Level 6)
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/96743

Garmin Edge 800 (PowerTap)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/239176583

Figures from PowerTap / Edge 800 with TR Virtual Power figures in (brackets)
Avg Power: 269 W (338 W)
Max Avg Power (20 min): 298 W (371 W)
Normalized Power (NP): 278 W (346 W)
Intensity Factor (IF): 0.858 (1.07 )
Training Stress Score (TSS): 74.0 (114)

I guess the question is now whether all Tacx Satori give the same Power differences. Not sure what my current tyre pressure is, but guess it's probably around 90psi ish.
This is obviously in no way a definitive test! I am going to see if I can tweak the settings a little to get them closer, before switching wheels. As the website states, it's only meant to be an estimate (and probably good enough for it's intended use)

ExigeR

Re: Kurt Kinetic Road Machine

Normally run mine at 3 turns and the tyre 110psi, this is what i used last night.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/96253

Changed to 5 turns and 120psi, did the same workout tonight

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/96788

TBH it didn't feel any different sat in on the saddle and to my eyes the data looks same.

ShutUpLegs

You seem to have put on a bit of weight in the last few days

mattshrops

Ant stick has arrived . hopefully do test tomorrow.

I am unable to get t'internet in my pain cave. anyone know if i can save videos from youtube to watch offline. (And if i can, please give me idiots guide)
cheers.

dw300

So I rode Eichorn (again).

Rode it at 102% today, compared to 101% last time, but hit the same numbers at the end. It felt much harder this time, having ridden the first interval at a much higher cadence this time compared to last.

However, I'd had 2 good night sleep before the last effort, so I can't attribute the fatigue to the cadence, although my heart rate averaged about 10bpm higher with the high cadence.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/dw300

CRAIGO5000

Keepvid.com and paste the link you want to download. Job done.

mattshrops

CRAIGO5000 wrote:

Keepvid.com and paste the link you want to download. Job done.

Was looking good till Norton said no way jose. Him no like keepvid. hmm.Anyothers?

richa

mattshrops wrote:

anyone know if i can save videos from youtube to watch offline. (And if i can, please give me idiots guide) cheers.

iPlayer desktop? Not youtube but when I have wanted video for my turbo this is what I went for. Download Bbc series, etc and get training. The Wire box set should keep me going all winter.

stueys

springtide9 wrote:

Back from holiday last night so had another go on TR. Thought I'd do a quick test with Virtual Power vs PowerTap as I want to use the PT back on the road (and don't want the hassle of changing tyres)

Trainer Road Virtual Power (Tacx Satori Resistance Level 6)
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/96743

Garmin Edge 800 (PowerTap)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/239176583

Figures from PowerTap / Edge 800 with TR Virtual Power figures in (brackets)
Avg Power: 269 W (338 W)
Max Avg Power (20 min): 298 W (371 W)
Normalized Power (NP): 278 W (346 W)
Intensity Factor (IF): 0.858 (1.07 )
Training Stress Score (TSS): 74.0 (114)

I guess the question is now whether all Tacx Satori give the same Power differences. Not sure what my current tyre pressure is, but guess it's probably around 90psi ish.
This is obviously in no way a definitive test! I am going to see if I can tweak the settings a little to get them closer, before switching wheels. As the website states, it's only meant to be an estimate (and probably good enough for it's intended use)

Very interesting thanks. Would you mind seeing how consistent TR is against your power tap? From my perspective I'm not really too worried about the accuracy of the numbers (though its interesting ), I'm very interested in the accuracy of tracking my improvement though.

CRAIGO5000

mattshrops wrote:

CRAIGO5000 wrote:

Keepvid.com and paste the link you want to download. Job done.

Was looking good till Norton said no way jose. Him no like keepvid. hmm.Anyothers?

It's because it runs a java pop-up to make the video. Perfectly normal, but something like Norton won't ever allow you control of your interwebz.

stannie

Ok - a complete numpty here.
Please help me as I don't really understand this thing but I want to train indoors this winter as well as riding outside. I really want to structure my training.
I have:

A bike!
Garmin edge 705 with cadence sensor and HRM
Powertap Pro rear wheel (just about to order)
Cyclops fluid 2 turbo trainer
A MacBook pro
a copy of Trainer Road (going to download)

What else do I need? - other than a bit of common sense which I am trying to find!
All the ANT+ USB sticks I have seen appear to be compatible with forerunner not Edge. Will the forerunner ANT+ stick work with the edge or does someone have a link to the one I need?

springtide9

Stueys wrote:

Very interesting thanks. Would you mind seeing how consistent TR is against your power tap? From my perspective I'm not really too worried about the accuracy of the numbers (though its interesting ), I'm very interested in the accuracy of tracking my improvement though.

As a FYI, I was attempting to track the power efforts on the PowerTap. If you look at the TR graph, it does appear to roughly track the power efforts, if showing a little higher.

Interval 1 (10:15) TR:351 PT:290 %Diff: +21%
Interval 2 (15:20) TR:391 PT:313 %Diff: +24%
Interval 3 (20:25) TR:352 PT:283 %Diff: +24%
Interval 7 (45:50) TR:353 PT:278 %Diff: +26%
Interval 8 (50:55) TR:331 PT:266 %Diff: +24%

The above are rough approximations from manually clipping the PT file within Training Peaks (and might not be that accurate). I also didn't start the Garmin at exactly the same time (maybe a few secs out??) as TR started, so couldn't just match the timelines.

I was/am trying to figure out how I could easily and accurately compare the two files to see if there was relationship between the two (anyone with any ideas?). Ideally, a bit of power smoothing would help matters.

I think my next step was to try using one of the other Tacx Satori power profiles within TR (maybe Tacx Satori Resistance Level 4 or 5?), and see how this tracks

jezzpalmer

My ANT stick just arrived and I've signed up for Trainerroad this morning.
Sometime over the weekend I'll do some testing with the Flow Vs Powertap, I realise the Flow is Beta so that adds a bit of extra potential waywardness to it.

Not particularly related to Trainerroad, but I did a bit of testing of Flow using it's own power reading against the power tap the other day and it wasn't even consistent against the two slopes I tried. Slope '0' gave +40W +(20%) error at 200W on the PT, slope '2' gave +20W (+10%) error at 200W on the PT.

manxshred

What else do I need? - other than a bit of common sense which I am trying to find!
All the ANT+ USB sticks I have seen appear to be compatible with forerunner not Edge. Will the forerunner ANT+ stick work with the edge or does someone have a link to the one I need?

Any Ant+ stick will do.

FANS!!!!!

CRAIGO5000

Aye. Im using a Moovestick and just leave it perma in my laptop as it's so small. Works great with my Garmin cadence/speed and HRM.

bigdaveskinnytyre

Here's the latest, a revisit of Monitor

It wasn't too bad for my second session after a long holiday. I'm now gearing up for a test next Sunday, I'll do a couple more during the week and then rest for a couple of days watching Orangutans in Sepilok before I torture myself on the turbo:D

kleinstroker

@bigdave

How is TR on the Bushido? I managed to snag the rear end motor brake, stand etc for ludicrous price so was wondering if i should replace the Cyclops Fluid 2 with it. I'm holding back because I don't want to fork out for a head unit if it's not very good on TR.

Cheers

bigdaveskinnytyre

kleinstroker wrote:

@bigdave

How is TR on the Bushido?

Cheers

I've had no problem with it, I use the 1% preset in trainer road but actually run it at a 0.7% slope, this means that the Bushido reads about 10W more than TR consistently through my power range. As most comparisons put the Bushido within a couple of % of SRMs and Powertaps, that's accurate enough for my needs. I purposely set it up so it reads higher than TR so that the virtual power if anything is under-reading.

I've used the Bushido for Real Life Videos etc but I find I'm using it more often with TR.

You can't use the Bushido as a direct power source for TR as Tacx's ANT protocol is different to everyone elses (why I don't know)

You will need the head unit to control the slope on the Bushido.

The process I go through is:

Start TR, make sure my HR and Cadence monitor are reading correctly
Start Bushido, check HR is detected.
Pair Brake with head unit
Calibrate Brake
Start a free training programme through the Bushido head unit, let it count down, don't start pedaling and let it auto pause
set the slope to 0.7%
Start the TR workout
Start pedaling, the Bushido session starts immediately, the TR workout will start after the countdown.

I never bother saving the Bushido workout.

If you're buying a head unit, make sure it's a later model, the buttons on the older ones are crap and it can stop itself if you sweat all over it. The later units have more positive buttons.

I think that's the main points covered