The official TrainerRoad thread

Mapaputsi

the_Spooks wrote:

Almost finished my base 2 block and gonna continue onto build ( never got this far before lol), now I’m unsure if I take the mid build with 5 sessions or the low with 3 and start to take the rides back outside to add to it. What are you guys doing at this point?

The build plans are 8 weeks, 8 weeks from now is the end of April - I would go with the 3/week because there's no way you'll be sitting inside on the turbo 5 evenings a week by then!

sopworth

Just started build phase this week. Did a 20 min FTP test yesterday and pleased with an 8 watt increase - nicely on target for my May FTP. I stuck to both phases of base training doing pretty much the low volume but also commuting to work (c.120 miles a week).
After two weeks off with proper shit flu I was struggling to finish the longer workouts but I did a pretty tough 1:30 over and unders today and felt good at my new FTP. It’s my highest FTP in 2 years of using TR coupled up with my Kickr.
I’m just gutted the TT up here keep getting cancelled as I’m itching to see where I’m at on the road!

ajkerr73

Standing or Seated?

Just shambled my way through Abbot.

3 x 2 min @120%
3 x 2min @140%
3 x 2 min @130%

Managed the first 4 seated but had to stand in 5, 6, 8 and 9.

What’s the consensus? Stay seated and drop the intensity of blast on through standing?

green_mark

Mapaputsi wrote:

the_Spooks wrote:

Almost finished my base 2 block and gonna continue onto build ( never got this far before lol), now I’m unsure if I take the mid build with 5 sessions or the low with 3 and start to take the rides back outside to add to it. What are you guys doing at this point?

The build plans are 8 weeks, 8 weeks from now is the end of April - I would go with the 3/week because there's no way you'll be sitting inside on the turbo 5 evenings a week by then!

You should choose the one that best fits your schedule and ability to recover. If you've been recovering OK from the medium base build then choose the medium build plan.

You should then integrate your outdoor rides by swapping them for the indoor sessions. Each outdoor ride should be about the same TSS as the one you scheduled. For example my weekend rides TSS are at about 110 each now over a 1.5 hour period - I find that I get a similar workout on a 2.25 hour ride outdoors.

The training plans are designed to make sure you are training consistently (better 5 short sessions per week than one 5 hour session per week), progressively (each week is slightly harder than the last) and near the peak of what you can deliver - each week should be near the maximum you can do and still recover for the next session. That's what makes them so efficient. If you stray too much from the plan it won't be as efficient, which is why you should plan to swap rides instead of adding more to an existing plan. Adding rides means you'll not be as fresh as you should be for the next scheduled ride.

And the choice of low/mid/high should be based on how much time you have to train and/or how well you recover. Even you have the time to do a medium plan but find that you can't recover enough then the medium plan is not right for you - you need to go low.

green_mark

stueyboy wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

How frequently do people advise doing FTP tests in these situations? I imagine it will only be another week or two before it plateaus, I just wondered what other people do?

Cheers!

Have a look at the workout called "Ramp Test X" which is in development. It's designed so that you can test more frequently and because a lot of TR users find it difficult and stressful to do either the 8 or 20 minute tests so weren't doing anything. You'll be doing well if you can last more than 20 minutes on the ramp test and will be good to do a warm down afterwards.

+1 on the ramp test. It's really easy to do.
Just did a 20-min FTP test on Monday and got 206W. Did the Ramp test with slightly tired legs yesterday and got 204W.
Based on my n=1 sample, I like.

daniel_b

green_mark wrote:

stueyboy wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

How frequently do people advise doing FTP tests in these situations? I imagine it will only be another week or two before it plateaus, I just wondered what other people do?

Cheers!

Have a look at the workout called "Ramp Test X" which is in development. It's designed so that you can test more frequently and because a lot of TR users find it difficult and stressful to do either the 8 or 20 minute tests so weren't doing anything. You'll be doing well if you can last more than 20 minutes on the ramp test and will be good to do a warm down afterwards.

+1 on the ramp test. It's really easy to do.
Just did a 20-min FTP test on Monday and got 206W. Did the Ramp test with slightly tired legs yesterday and got 204W.
Based on my n=1 sample, I like.

Looking at peoples efforts, seems like 18-20 minutes is a typical survival time.
Do you guys find your ideal cadence drops towards the end, or are you maintaining?
How long are you warming down for after the effort?
Or is it even worth riding an easy 30 minute workout I wonder.

stueyboy

Daniel B wrote:

Looking at peoples efforts, seems like 18-20 minutes is a typical survival time.
Do you guys find your ideal cadence drops towards the end, or are you maintaining?
How long are you warming down for after the effort?
Or is it even worth riding an easy 30 minute workout I wonder.

I've only done it once and I did it at a high cadence so when it got towards the end I just suddenly stopped as my HR was maxed. I'd probably revise that strategy next time. The TR folks specifically say not to do any warm up other than the one on the test as that will effect the final calculation. I picked a 30-45 minute recovery effort and did it after the test and after I'd rested my head on my stem for 5 minutes

daniel_b

stueyboy wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

Looking at peoples efforts, seems like 18-20 minutes is a typical survival time.
Do you guys find your ideal cadence drops towards the end, or are you maintaining?
How long are you warming down for after the effort?
Or is it even worth riding an easy 30 minute workout I wonder.

I've only done it once and I did it at a high cadence so when it got towards the end I just suddenly stopped as my HR was maxed. I'd probably revise that strategy next time. The TR folks specifically say not to do any warm up other than the one on the test as that will effect the final calculation. I picked a 30-45 minute recovery effort and did it after the test and after I'd rested my head on my stem for 5 minutes

Thanks Stuey - my ideal normal cadence seems to be around 90, which is what I always tried to hold for my twin 8 tests, so will probably do the same here - just not sure whether if my cadence drops, as the wattage increases, whether it is not good practice to allow myself to grind at a lower cadence, as that will be the temptation to get through another minute etc etc
When I say grind, I'm being relative, so thinking around the 80 mark (70 at the absolute lowest) - more muscle, less cardio.

Pettit was one that sprang to mind as a nice easy 30 minute session to use as warm down.

blackstar500

Any free trials going...please DM me thanks

sopworth

blackstar500 wrote:

Any free trials going…please DM me thanks

Is TR not a 'money back guarantee' if you aren't satisfied in the first month? They are a good company to engage with on social media so I doubt they would go back on their word.

daniel_b

sopworth wrote:

blackstar500 wrote:

Any free trials going…please DM me thanks

Is TR not a 'money back guarantee' if you aren't satisfied in the first month? They are a good company to engage with on social media so I doubt they would go back on their word.

They are indeed, though I have noticed they seemed to have removed their 'suspend' option, looks like you can only cancel now unless I have read it wrong.
Was deffo there last summer.

daniel_b

Carried out the ramp test this evening - about 2.5 hours after a not too heavy dinner, with no dessert!

Was unsure what to expect, as never tried a workout like this before - my target was 20 minutes.

Started off fine, kept cadence at my preferred 90ish range, dropped to 86 for what ended up being the last meaningful minute, and alas that only took me up to 19 minutes.
Calculating the best minute * 0.76 puts me at only 205, up from my previous 200, and that was just on a low level base plan, so moderately happy with that.

Lack of sleep last night, and a frantically busy say at work, make me think I could have done better given a morning start, bit of porridge and a strong cup of coffee.

Overall though, I liked it a lot, and don't feel as destroyed as I used to on the twin 8 test.

BorderCyclist

I've got 3 Free month trials available if anyone is looking for one.

PM me your full name and email.

Mapaputsi

I have an FTP test coming up next week after finishing up the short power build, going to try both the 8 min and ramp test to see is there is any difference.
The ramp test could be a game changer for me, I go into the FTP tests with such dread that I feel that I rarely perform to the best of my abilities.
Also find it interesting to look at all the logged ramp tests on the TR site and see that almost everyone fails between 18-20 minutes. Good consistency.

graememacd

Did the ramp test just as an experiment this week the day after doing the 20 minute ftp test. Managed 20 minutes with an improved ftp from 236 to 247. Might have been able to manage a slightly higher score without the previous days ftp test. Much prefered it though

rdt

Daniel B wrote:

They are indeed, though I have noticed they seemed to have removed their 'suspend' option, looks like you can only cancel now unless I have read it wrong.
Was deffo there last summer.

From the little I know, it seems TR are making a concerted effort to turn it into something you'd subscribe to year-round (the beta test analytics inc. outdoor ride data), rather than just through the winter indoor training period.

With that in mind, maybe they've just re-labelled 'suspend' as 'cancel' in order to discourage people from unsubbing for 6 months of the year? ie maybe just a presentational change by the marketers.

If you cancel, is all your data still retained for when you next resubscribe?

sopworth

rdt wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

They are indeed, though I have noticed they seemed to have removed their 'suspend' option, looks like you can only cancel now unless I have read it wrong.
Was deffo there last summer.

From the little I know, it seems TR are making a concerted effort to turn it into something you'd subscribe to year-round (the beta test analytics inc. outdoor ride data), rather than just through the winter indoor training period.

With that in mind, maybe they've just re-labelled 'suspend' as 'cancel' in order to discourage people from unsubbing for 6 months of the year? ie maybe just a presentational change by the marketers.

If you cancel, is all your data still retained for when you next resubscribe?

Yes. I only use TR for about 7 months a year and all my old info is available when I re-subscribe.
For the money and use I get from it, TR is an absolute bargain in the cycling world these days.

rdt

sopworth wrote:

Yes. I only use TR for about 7 months a year and all my old info is available when I re-subscribe.
For the money and use I get from it, TR is an absolute bargain in the cycling world these days.

Thanks.

In the short time I've been using TR I'm impressed - well designed product that's steadily being improved, good support, good company comms & ethos.

Price seems fair; when was the last increase (tempting fate!)?

markp80

I see that TR have pulled all the Sufferfest workouts, following request from Sufferfest.
That’s a real shame, I enjoyed those workouts.
I’m actually a bit miffed, as I bought and paid for the videos in my collection. All Sufferfest vids are now only available via continuing subscription, you can’t buy any of the new ones, so I think it’s poor form to stop us continuing using the old ones we’ve already bought with TR. i can’t believe they were actually losing business over this, it’s a very petty thing to do to former customers . I wasn’t planning to take out a Sufferfest subscription, but now they’ve done this, I definitely won’t.

Cheers,
MarkP

CompBio

Is anyone else on this thread an older athlete, over 55? I used the search tool but didn't see much (or didn't find the magic search term). Just curious about your experiences with the regimen, recovery and the frequent high intensity. I've been using TR for a year now. I love the regimen in general, and found, as others have, that training for something like a hilly 100-mile sportive really does not require 60- or 80-mile training rides. I've even boosted my FTP a few percent.

One concern I have, though, is that some research appears to show that frequent high-intensity training may be harmful for older athletes. I posed this question to the TR podcast, but as with all my other questions, they've passed it over. Has anyone here heard whether the intensity in SSB1/2 could be problematic as we age beyond 60-70?

bobmcstuff

MarkP80 wrote:

I see that TR have pulled all the Sufferfest workouts, following request from Sufferfest.
That’s a real shame, I enjoyed those workouts.
I’m actually a bit miffed, as I bought and paid for the videos in my collection. All Sufferfest vids are now only available via continuing subscription, you can’t buy any of the new ones, so I think it’s poor form to stop us continuing using the old ones we’ve already bought with TR. i can’t believe they were actually losing business over this, it’s a very petty thing to do to former customers . I wasn’t planning to take out a Sufferfest subscription, but now they’ve done this, I definitely won’t.

Cheers,
MarkP

Agree, very disappointing from Sufferfest- very petty too. Given these were all legacy videos as you say.

I like using Nine Hammers in TR quite often... So I guess I will just make it myself in the custom workout editor (which is very easy to use) based on my previous workouts...

fukawitribe

There used to be a spreadsheet online with the old Sufferfest workout efforts in ERG or MRC format - might be worth a search. You can then just drop that into Workout Creator, or used to be able to - i've been off TR for a while now so i'm not sure.

davebradswmb

CompBio wrote:

One concern I have, though, is that some research appears to show that frequent high-intensity training may be harmful for older athletes. I posed this question to the TR podcast, but as with all my other questions, they've passed it over. Has anyone here heard whether the intensity in SSB1/2 could be problematic as we age beyond 60-70?

There is a lot of conflicting evidence, and I guess it depends upon what you might call frequent and high intensity. I am over 55 and although I have ridden all my life, my main sport until recently has been canoe slalom where we are training for a 100-second race involving constant acceleration/deceleration and changes of direction. So what a cyclist might call high intensity is definitely on the endurance spectrum from a canoe slalomist's point of view.

I was pointed to this article by my sister yesterday, perhaps this will settle your fears https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/well/move/lessons-on-aging-well-from-a-105-year-old-cyclist.html

harry-s

CompBio wrote:

One concern I have, though, is that some research appears to show that frequent high-intensity training may be harmful for older athletes. I posed this question to the TR podcast, but as with all my other questions, they've passed it over. Has anyone here heard whether the intensity in SSB1/2 could be problematic as we age beyond 60-70?

I've read the odd article where it's mentioned that HIT may be harmful for older athletes, but haven't seen any results from proper research. It would still be interesting though to hear the opinion of experienced coaches with older athletes in their client base. It may be that older athletes, without a history of training, are more susceptible to problems, but that seems a bit of a 'no sh*t, Sherlock' moment to me.

The TR programs do seem to be a 'one size fits all' solution though, with no variation on the workouts to suit ageing athletes. It may be that they've done their research, and believe that really it makes no difference. I'm in my 60's, and have done the mid volume sustained power build plan a couple of times, with no problems, and usually going over the plan's TSS target by riding outdoors over the weekend. I have to say that I haven't really seen any significant increases in FTP, I'm not sure if that's because I've started the plans in fairly good shape, or that at my age, keeping FTP reasonably constant and not decreasing should be seen as an improvement.

I have to say that Daniel B's posts throughout this thread have been excellent, so chapeau to him!

CompBio

I'm in my 60's, and have done the mid volume sustained power build plan a couple of times, with no problems, and usually going over the plan's TSS target by riding outdoors over the weekend. I have to say that I haven't really seen any significant increases in FTP, I'm not sure if that's because I've started the plans in fairly good shape, or that at my age, keeping FTP reasonably constant and not decreasing should be seen as an improvement.

Good to know. I gravitate toward the mid-volume plans myself, as I used to do many hours per week (in retrospect, far too little recovery). Now that my hard days are HARD (I love their phrase "uncomfortably uncomfortable") and my easy days are EASY, I'm seeing slight improvement in FTP and definite improvement in muscular endurance.

Toyman

I can see "Spanish Needle" workout is waiting for me next week. For those who don't know, it mainly consists of 15 sec x 150% FTP followed by 15sec x 40% FTP, repeated many, many times.
I am using non-ERG Kurt Kinetic trainer and switching gears back and forth like 40 times looks like PITA.
Have anybody tried it? Can it be replaced with something less intensive from gear changing POV?

barry_kellett99

Toyman wrote:

I can see "Spanish Needle" workout is waiting for me next week. For those who don't know, it mainly consists of 15 sec x 150% FTP followed by 15sec x 40% FTP, repeated many, many times.
I am using non-ERG Kurt Kinetic trainer and switching gears back and forth like 40 times looks like PITA.
Have anybody tried it? Can it be replaced with something less intensive from gear changing POV?

I have visited the good old spanish needle, on a kurt kinetic.
When trainer road says to go 40% it means recovery. You don't need to do 40%, you won't want to go 40%.
I just looked back and I didn't change gear, I spun it up to high cadence and just slowed right back down again in between keeping the crank turning over. Something like 80-90 at the "off" parts and 105-110 for the on.
Maybe one click on the rear mech down and up at most.

spanishneedle by barry_kellett99, on Flickr

Toyman

Very useful, thx

azzurri78

Currently using the wattbike at work and been using a printout of zwift workouts to complete a workout and save on the wattbike app.

Bit of a faff so thinking of starting to use trainerroad. Only have 45 mins to do the workout so my questions are, on average, how long are the workouts? Thinking an hour? So, hopefully, can you skip forward when you are part way through an interval or recovery period? This way I could bring the workout time down to something I could fit in.

FWIW - Would be using the iOS app.

handful

I got the email from TR about sufferfest but did A Very Dark Place this morning with no issues. Confused? Will it work until I update the app on my laptop or something?