The official TrainerRoad thread

buckmulligan

the_Spooks wrote:

If you use the Ramp X they say just multiply the figure to top out at by 0.77 and this would be your ftp but they will comment on your ride to give your ftp. I have a new trainer arriving soon so will give this a try

I read a comment that said to multiply your maximal 1-minute power from the test by 0.77, not simply the target power for the highest interval that you reach or complete. This would agree with one of Nate's comments (to paraphrase) that "every second counts, even if you don't complete a full 1-min interval".

Still haven't tried it for myself, but you could do this for yourself by looking up your 1 min value in the "Bests" tab of the activity and multiplying that value by 0.77.

cookeeemonster

I didn't find the 2x8 minute test "that bad" compared to the 20 minute one...which yeah, is tough.

But the way I see it, aren't ftp tests and the like a good way of training your mind as well as body/working out your zones? i.e. toughening you up a bit?

sopworth

Hi all,
Thought i'd jump on this thread….hadn't seen it until now!
I've been using TR solidly since October. I've been doing the SS base plan, flirting between mid and high volume workouts, slotted between longer commutes to work. So far, so good as i've seen a slight increase in my FTP since starting but i've done it all on my TT bike and mostly in the aero position, which I feel is needing more effort and power to sustain than on my road bike last year.
Had a crap week on it this week and struggled to finish a 1:30 and 2hr workouts. I'm not sure why but my legs just not there. I'm taking a few days off before hitting it again.

LWLondon

LWLondon wrote:

Question for the masses (or if you have seen this answered elsewhere, please link!). I work out at 6am, about 10/15mins after getting up - I only normally have an espresso before I start, and sip water throughout. While I can just about handle this now for sweetspot work, i'm sure as I get to more Vo2 max intervals this may be a struggle! Any tips/thoughts?

Noone have any thoughts?

bobmcstuff

LWLondon wrote:

LWLondon wrote:

Question for the masses (or if you have seen this answered elsewhere, please link!). I work out at 6am, about 10/15mins after getting up - I only normally have an espresso before I start, and sip water throughout. While I can just about handle this now for sweetspot work, i'm sure as I get to more Vo2 max intervals this may be a struggle! Any tips/thoughts?

Noone have any thoughts?

I think this was discussed on the latest TR podcast, they had a question from some lunatic who gets up at 4am to train.

Probably you will want to make sure to eat some decent carbs before bed. I wouldn't eat before getting on the turbo, the best option might be to have a gel as you wake up but certainly nothing substantial (unless you think you can cope with it - I certainly can't!). Normally prefer real food over gels but this is one time where a gel makes a lot of sense.

Everyone is different, so it might be a bit of trial and error (personally I hate training first thing in the morning)

sopworth

Having recently just noticed this thread, I haven't looked that far back through it (a couple of pages really). Out of interest, for those that have been using TR for some time - what increased of FTP have you seen, what plan/training have you been doing to get this increase, and has this FTP increase compared to improvements on the road?

I ask, as I have been using TR consistently since October when TT season finished. Until then, I was using Zwift for indoor riding and doing races on Zwift for which my FTP was 295. When I switched to TR, my FTP dropped to 276 after doing a 20 min test (not my first one so I paced it well) but I had switched the bike to a TT bike and tried to ride most of the test in the aero position. Following the Sweet Spot Base plan riding mostly 3-5 times a week using TR my FTP as increased to 284. I going to be doing another 20min FTP test next week as its the start of my build phase (my intention was to finish build phase just as TT season gets going and doing Speciality phase during the early season). I don't expect to see a rise, perhaps a drop in FTP as I've been struggling these last few weeks after a bout of pneumonia (not good!).

My hope back in October was to try and get my FTP to around 310 by April/May time, which I kind of guessed/crunched figures would maybe get me close to a 20min 10m TT. I don't think that's achievable at the moment but I'm working really hard on the bike again since dropping running and swimming to concentrate on TT this year. I'm finding a slight increase at the moment is really tough.

Would love to hear others FTP stories.

rdt

I'm looking at TR's plans for the first time, and have signed myself up for Sweet Spot Base. At first glance the calendar/schedule stuff looks a bit iffy:

1. The default Tue-Thur & Sat-Sun schedule for the 5 sessions per week doesn't fit in with my life, and I'll always want to rearrange this. Does that mean using the Assign function for every session I do, and can I Assign a session to a day that's not originally scheduled (by TR) to have one?

2. What about pausing the whole plan? If I'm away for a few days, I don't want to skip those sessions (else my plan will be peppered with blanks). I want to temporarily pause the plan and and recommence it once I'm back home. It's not obvious how that sort of thing is achieved.

I'm not the only person who has a life that training needs to fit around so I'm assuming there's answers/workaround to this scheduling stuff... Any tips? Cheers.

Mapaputsi

sopworth wrote:

Having recently just noticed this thread, I haven't looked that far back through it (a couple of pages really). Out of interest, for those that have been using TR for some time - what increased of FTP have you seen, what plan/training have you been doing to get this increase, and has this FTP increase compared to improvements on the road?

I ask, as I have been using TR consistently since October when TT season finished. Until then, I was using Zwift for indoor riding and doing races on Zwift for which my FTP was 295. When I switched to TR, my FTP dropped to 276 after doing a 20 min test (not my first one so I paced it well) but I had switched the bike to a TT bike and tried to ride most of the test in the aero position. Following the Sweet Spot Base plan riding mostly 3-5 times a week using TR my FTP as increased to 284. I going to be doing another 20min FTP test next week as its the start of my build phase (my intention was to finish build phase just as TT season gets going and doing Speciality phase during the early season). I don't expect to see a rise, perhaps a drop in FTP as I've been struggling these last few weeks after a bout of pneumonia (not good!).

My hope back in October was to try and get my FTP to around 310 by April/May time, which I kind of guessed/crunched figures would maybe get me close to a 20min 10m TT. I don't think that's achievable at the moment but I'm working really hard on the bike again since dropping running and swimming to concentrate on TT this year. I'm finding a slight increase at the moment is really tough.

Would love to hear others FTP stories.

First winter using TR. I went from 276 to 289 on my first sweet spot base phase. Then on the second I was just coming down with a cold on the day of the FTP test (didn't really realise this until the day after tbh) but still managed to keep it at 289 despite my HR going through the roof and feeling weak.

Took a week off to recover and am now 2 weeks through a short power build. The workouts are brutal but I can finish them all which is promising. Hoping for 305-310 just like yourself. Next test is 2 weeks from now, looking forward to seeing my gains.

Mapaputsi

rdt wrote:

I'm looking at TR's plans for the first time, and have signed myself up for Sweet Spot Base. At first glance the calendar/schedule stuff looks a bit iffy:

1. The default Tue-Thur & Sat-Sun schedule for the 5 sessions per week doesn't fit in with my life, and I'll always want to rearrange this. Does that mean using the Assign function for every session I do, and can I Assign a session to a day that's not originally scheduled (by TR) to have one?

2. What about pausing the whole plan? If I'm away for a few days, I don't want to skip those sessions (else my plan will be peppered with blanks). I want to temporarily pause the plan and and recommence it once I'm back home. It's not obvious how that sort of thing is achieved.

I'm not the only person who has a life that training needs to fit around so I'm assuming there's answers/workaround to this scheduling stuff... Any tips? Cheers.

It doesn't run day by day i.e. if you 'skip' your Wednesday workout you can just do it on Thursday and it will mark as done, you could take 10 days to do the week and it would just roll on. Hard to explain but hope you get the picture.
The only reasons I have had to 'assign' a ride is if I went outside for that day or if I was pressed for time and shortened the workout. You'll find 1hr30 workouts scheduled on a weekday in the later blocks can be tricky to squeeze in!

rdt

Thanks Mapaputsi, that all sounds good.

sir_les

I need some FTP advice on Trainerroad please...

MY FTP outdoors on a Stages power meter is around 235w but indoors I use an old bike without a power meter but connect it to a Tacx Blue motion and use the Virtual power option via the speed and cadence sensor on resistance 3.

On Zwift using the exact same settings I had an FTP of 235w and on Sufferfest I was around 230w. However on Trainerroad my FTP is coming out as 190w on the same tyre pressure and resistance on the turbo and I can;t understand why it's reading so low?

Most people say well it's ok as long as it's consistent, but it's ruining my stats in Training Peaks.

Any ideas or advice please?

sopworth

I wouldn’t be too bothered mate. My ftp numbers on Zwift and TR were about 20 apart and that was measured on the same kickr!
As long as the equipment and set up remain the same for each platform then you are golden.
Unfortunately, without a PM any suggested power reading is going to be suspect.

rdt

Sir_Les wrote:

I need some FTP advice on Trainerroad please...

MY FTP outdoors on a Stages power meter is around 235w but indoors I use an old bike without a power meter but connect it to a Tacx Blue motion and use the Virtual power option via the speed and cadence sensor on resistance 3.

On Zwift using the exact same settings I had an FTP of 235w and on Sufferfest I was around 230w. However on Trainerroad my FTP is coming out as 190w on the same tyre pressure and resistance on the turbo and I can;t understand why it's reading so low?

- Double check that the resistance level on the trainer matches the resistance level you've told TR that you're using (3), ie. you've not made a basic error. Or that you didn't make that same type of error with the other apps.

- Maybe try another resistance level than 3 (using the same on both trainer and in TR) to see if there's a blip in TR's power curve data for your initial resistance setting.

- Or maybe TR's got different power curve data to those other apps for all resistance settings, in which case there's not a whole lot you can do... You could test this out in each of the apps maybe, with identical setups and wheel speeds, across a range of speeds, to see if you get the same virtual power reading from each (ie. same virtual power curves). If you do, then that'd suggest the variability was more down to you in the FTP tests, or how the FTP calc was being calculated...

- Else what sopworth says!

firefly#26

I've earned a couple of 1 month free referrals for TrainerRoad,valid for first timers. If anyone's interested drop me a pm.

MisterMuncher

The first sweet spot base plan gave me a solid 10% increase in FTP, but probably a bit more. I derived my initial FTP from a 25 mile TT, and worked from there. Typically, though, I would put out about 10-15% more power outside than indoor for the same HR/RPE. I've just finished the second plan*, and will test again next week. I reckon I might have went up similarly again, as I could hold the intervals in the longer threshold/sweet spot workouts pretty handily. Timing wise, this should let me finish a stage 2 block, probably the short power build, in time for the start of the club racing season. Overall, though, I've made pretty significant gains, dropping 6 kg and gaining power as well.

As far as the scheduling goes, my work means weekend sets can't be the longer/harder sessions, so I start the block on a Saturday, meaning the heavier work matches up with my midweek days off. If I couldn't get out for more than four/five days, I tended to delete the week and start it again. I also use Stravistix fitness trend to give me a rough idea of when I've went off the boil or need to rest an extra evening. The most important part is listening to your legs, though.

* For the most part, I can't manage the recovery weeks on the trainer. They're just unremittingly dull, there's not enough work in them to hold interest. So a few outdoor rides will get subbed in.

stueyboy

The TR guys have just announced the rollout of their performance analytics package to the beta users group. This will import all your Strava rides and calculate the TSS etc so that you can get an overview of all your activities within TR. Should be quite interesting to see how it works out.

firefly#26

LWLondon wrote:

LWLondon wrote:

Question for the masses (or if you have seen this answered elsewhere, please link!). I work out at 6am, about 10/15mins after getting up - I only normally have an espresso before I start, and sip water throughout. While I can just about handle this now for sweetspot work, i'm sure as I get to more Vo2 max intervals this may be a struggle! Any tips/thoughts?

Noone have any thoughts?

My routine is pretty much the same as you, to get my workout squeezed in before breakfast and work. I don't take anything to eat before hopping on the trainer, I tried it once, and almost boaked, so just water for me. I haven't had any issues with any of the workouts, but then again I don't train for any longer than 90 minutes. Although my main evening meal is usually at about 9pm so I probably still have some fuel in the tank.

bobmcstuff

rdt wrote:

Sir_Les wrote:

I need some FTP advice on Trainerroad please...

MY FTP outdoors on a Stages power meter is around 235w but indoors I use an old bike without a power meter but connect it to a Tacx Blue motion and use the Virtual power option via the speed and cadence sensor on resistance 3.

On Zwift using the exact same settings I had an FTP of 235w and on Sufferfest I was around 230w. However on Trainerroad my FTP is coming out as 190w on the same tyre pressure and resistance on the turbo and I can;t understand why it's reading so low?

- Double check that the resistance level on the trainer matches the resistance level you've told TR that you're using (3), ie. you've not made a basic error. Or that you didn't make that same type of error with the other apps.

- Maybe try another resistance level than 3 (using the same on both trainer and in TR) to see if there's a blip in TR's power curve data for your initial resistance setting.

- Or maybe TR's got different power curve data to those other apps for all resistance settings, in which case there's not a whole lot you can do... You could test this out in each of the apps maybe, with identical setups and wheel speeds, across a range of speeds, to see if you get the same virtual power reading from each (ie. same virtual power curves). If you do, then that'd suggest the variability was more down to you in the FTP tests, or how the FTP calc was being calculated...

- Else what sopworth says!

You shouldn't be seeing such big differences there, I use a Blue Motion on setting 4 or 5 (depending on how fit I am) and it ties up pretty closely with the occasional WattBike workouts I have done. TR support is pretty good, they have a livechat function on their site as well so you should be able to get someone to help you if the above suggestions don't work out.

bobmcstuff

As for my progress, my first FTP was 228, I got to a high of 263 and I think I have 280 in me (putting me over 4 w/kg), so that's my longer term aim.

However this year has been awful for training and I suspect my FTP will be languishing around the 200 mark, but I don't want to check... My house is currently a building site with no shower and I have a dissertation due in less than a month, plus working full time and travelling a lot...

Beatmaker

I have another month free trial here should anyone need it. Just DM me name and email address.

roubaixmb

Free trial going if anyone wants it - DM me name and email address.

ClaudeH

I did the Ramp X test yesterday for the first time. Certainly a much less unpleasant experience than the 20 minute FTP test. I calculated an FTP of 238 and received an email later from TrainerRoad confirming this.

My previous 20 minute FTP test gave me 226 but that was about 6 weeks ago and I have done quite a bit of work since then so I am not surprised by the higher number.

I saw on the TR facebook page that they have refined the calculation down to 76% of the highest 1 minute average power from 77% previously.

daniel_b

ClaudeH wrote:

I did the Ramp X test yesterday for the first time. Certainly a much less unpleasant experience than the 20 minute FTP test. I calculated an FTP of 238 and received an email later from TrainerRoad confirming this.

My previous 20 minute FTP test gave me 226 but that was about 6 weeks ago and I have done quite a bit of work since then so I am not surprised by the higher number.

I saw on the TR facebook page that they have refined the calculation down to 76% of the highest 1 minute average power from 77% previously.

That's good to hear - I am planning to try the ramp test for the first time at the weekend - I did have an FTP (Using the twin 8 test) of 229 late last year, but this has now dropped to around 200 - hoping the ramp test will confirm that, and then I can start building again.

mrb123

Quick FTP test question...

What is the significance of the target power displayed during the 20 minute test interval?

I have seen some guidance suggesting it should just be ignored during the test, but what then is it for?

As far as I can tell, if I maintained the target power during the 20 minutes, I'd end up with a lower FTP than I scored during my last test, assuming it would be multiplied by .95.

schayaraks

MrB123 wrote:

Quick FTP test question...

What is the significance of the target power displayed during the 20 minute test interval?

I have seen some guidance suggesting it should just be ignored during the test, but what then is it for?

As far as I can tell, if I maintained the target power during the 20 minutes, I'd end up with a lower FTP than I scored during my last test, assuming it would be multiplied by .95.

Correct, if you were to complete the main section at the target power your resulting FTP would be lower. If you’re using a smart trainer the mode will switch from ERG to slope during that main section so you should have already preselected a gear which you can spin at just above the target power. You can usually work backwards using how you feel - so if you think your FTP might have improved 5% over the previous value take your previous value, divide by 0.90 (for the 20 minute test) and try to keep that target during the main section. I find this more useful than guessing and either burning up too quickly or finishing without seeing stars.

mrb123

schayaraks wrote:

MrB123 wrote:

Quick FTP test question...

What is the significance of the target power displayed during the 20 minute test interval?

I have seen some guidance suggesting it should just be ignored during the test, but what then is it for?

As far as I can tell, if I maintained the target power during the 20 minutes, I'd end up with a lower FTP than I scored during my last test, assuming it would be multiplied by .95.

Correct, if you were to complete the main section at the target power your resulting FTP would be lower. If you’re using a smart trainer the mode will switch from ERG to slope during that main section so you should have already preselected a gear which you can spin at just above the target power. You can usually work backwards using how you feel - so if you think your FTP might have improved 5% over the previous value take your previous value, divide by 0.90 (for the 20 minute test) and try to keep that target during the main section. I find this more useful than guessing and either burning up too quickly or finishing without seeing stars.

Thanks, that's more or less what I thought.

It does still beg the question what is the point of the target power figure displayed?

I would have thought it would make more sense for the figure to be the equivalent of your existing FTP.

the_spooks

Almost finished my base 2 block and gonna continue onto build ( never got this far before lol), now I’m unsure if I take the mid build with 5 sessions or the low with 3 and start to take the rides back outside to add to it. What are you guys doing at this point?

gcwebbyuk

I went with the low volume but add in extra workouts on days that I have the time. That way I feel I’m sticking to plan and not having to skip sessions - better for morale!

bobmcstuff

Hi, quick question for people coming back from a break - I haven't really trained since November for a few reasons, just getting back into it a bit in advance of some cycling trips planned later in the year. Before I laid off I was at 263 watts, about a month ago I struggled to hold 200 (really struggled). Today I bumped it up to 220, and I think it's actually higher than that.

Since I have properly back on it I have been adding watts really fast. This is obviously great (I know it can't last very long!), but I feel like I would need to be doing FTP tests almost weekly to have it accurate, at the moment I'm just estimating based on the % intensity I am completing the workouts at (i.e., if I complete 2 workouts at 105% I bump my FTP by 5%).

How frequently do people advise doing FTP tests in these situations? I imagine it will only be another week or two before it plateaus, I just wondered what other people do?

Cheers!

stueyboy

bobmcstuff wrote:

How frequently do people advise doing FTP tests in these situations? I imagine it will only be another week or two before it plateaus, I just wondered what other people do?

Cheers!

Have a look at the workout called "Ramp Test X" which is in development. It's designed so that you can test more frequently and because a lot of TR users find it difficult and stressful to do either the 8 or 20 minute tests so weren't doing anything. You'll be doing well if you can last more than 20 minutes on the ramp test and will be good to do a warm down afterwards.