USADA files doping charges against Lance
Comments
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frenchfighter wrote:By the way, NIKE is down 5% on this news.
Is that their haematocrit level?0 -
If Radioshack blows up, Riis could be in line for some protour points.
Is he the winner of this short-term?0 -
Interesting, do you happen to know what effect the Tiger 'situation' had on their price?frenchfighter wrote:By the way, NIKE is down 5% on this news.0 -
hope real peloton does a piece... they should do"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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Has anyone (maybe BikingBernie most likely??) got any stats on all cyclists in the last decade (or something like that) who have tested positive, and the amount of tests they've had between them compared to the amount of positives??
Even better if there's a figure from those who say 'had xxx tests when I was doping and failed xxx'.
Adding them all together would be a good figure to quote back at why 'had 500 tests and never positive' holds no real weight to those who think its a persuasive argument.
Even an estimation of it would be enlightening, and obviously would be thousands and thousands of tests but only a tiny handful of positives???0 -
mfin wrote:Has anyone (maybe BikingBernie most likely??) got any stats on all cyclists in the last decade (or something like that) who have tested positive, and the amount of tests they've had between them compared to the amount of positives??
Even better if there's a figure from those who say 'had xxx tests when was doping and failed xxx'.
Adding them all together would be a good figure to quote back at why 'had 500 tests and never positive' holds no real weight to those who think its a persuasive argument.
Even an estimation of it would be enlightening, and obviously would be thousands and thousands of tests but only a tiny handful of positives???
This used to be known as "The Neil Stephen's Defence" in Australia.
He made similar quotes back in July '98.Racing is life - everything else is just waiting0 -
Any signs of Moray and DennisM ???? not many fanboys on this forum except for gazzput (no relation thank god)
Radioshack to implode in the next day or 2 i reckon ?????0 -
DeadCalm wrote:Looks like Radioshack may be out of the tour:
http://www.rmcsport.fr/editorial/266964 ... armstrong/
If so, I hope their place goes to Bretagne-Schuler who should have had an invite in the first place!
A very rough translation for those who don't speak French:Accused by the USADA (American Agency antidopage) to have set up of the doping practices of 1998 to 2011 principally to the profit of Lance Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel, athletic former director of the Postal US, Discovery Channel, Astana then RadioShack, could be the first one to do the expenses of the disciplinary procedure in course.
According to our information, ASO, organizing of the Tour de France, would envision from the standpoint ethical to forbid to Nissan RadioShack to take the departure of the Big next Buckle (that begins June 30), his to manage current, Bruyneel, being therefore questioned in this matter.
Contacted by RMC Sport, ASO and the director of the Tour de France, Christian Prudhomme, did not wish to confirm or invalidate information. "The direction does not comment on the matter in course since at the present time, it is a just matter of the opening of an investigation, we one has declared. No declaration will be therefore done so on the shutter Armstrong, that Bruyneel or RadioShack. If a decision had to be taken, she would be it under the aegis and according to the rules of the UCI.0 -
Down the Road wrote:mfin wrote:Has anyone (maybe BikingBernie most likely??) got any stats on all cyclists in the last decade (or something like that) who have tested positive, and the amount of tests they've had between them compared to the amount of positives??
Even better if there's a figure from those who say 'had xxx tests when was doping and failed xxx'.
Adding them all together would be a good figure to quote back at why 'had 500 tests and never positive' holds no real weight to those who think its a persuasive argument.
Even an estimation of it would be enlightening, and obviously would be thousands and thousands of tests but only a tiny handful of positives???
This used to be known as "The Neil Stephen's Defence" in Australia.
He made similar quotes back in July '98.
Or the "Marion Jones defence".0 -
I looked up on UCI and found page with this
http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI1/layout.asp?MenuId=MTUzNDc&LangId=1
...which contains...
(thats their exclamation mark in there not mine, so they feel the need to sell this to us as a maaaasive figure).In 2009, the UCI carried out 15700 anti-doping tests (43 per day) throughout the world!
So, thats the UCI figure for one year, so if its that much then lets say 150,000 tests in 10 years, roughly, I don't know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling#2009
2009, the names I can see from 2009 tests amount to 10, so thats "10 out of 15,700" or "1 in 1,570".
That's assuming all those 10 come from UCI tests alone?? or the odds on being caught are less.
Of course, these tests are on dopers and non-dopers, but still, interesting figures just from a glance...
...hopefully someone with a far more scientific approach will have a better look than my "1 minute search and full of holes" glance at it!! ...and of course, with any information with such tiny rates of detection then a layman can argue there's naff all doping in cycling anyway... interesting numbers though?0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Looks like Radioshack may be out of the tour:
http://www.rmcsport.fr/editorial/266964 ... armstrong/
If so, I hope their place goes to Bretagne-Schuler who should have had an invite in the first place!
A very rough translation for those who don't speak French:Accused by the USADA (American Agency antidopage) to have set up of the doping practices of 1998 to 2011 principally to the profit of Lance Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel, athletic former director of the Postal US, Discovery Channel, Astana then RadioShack, could be the first one to do the expenses of the disciplinary procedure in course.
According to our information, ASO, organizing of the Tour de France, would envision from the standpoint ethical to forbid to Nissan RadioShack to take the departure of the Big next Buckle (that begins June 30), his to manage current, Bruyneel, being therefore questioned in this matter.
Contacted by RMC Sport, ASO and the director of the Tour de France, Christian Prudhomme, did not wish to confirm or invalidate information. "The direction does not comment on the matter in course since at the present time, it is a just matter of the opening of an investigation, we one has declared. No declaration will be therefore done so on the shutter Armstrong, that Bruyneel or RadioShack. If a decision had to be taken, she would be it under the aegis and according to the rules of the UCI.
English article here:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12119/Could-Bruyneel-or-the-RadioShack-team-be-excluded-from-the-Tour.aspxRMC Sport contacted Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme, who declined to give a specific response on the rumour.
"The management won’t comment on the unfolding case since at present, we have been told that this is just the opening of an investigation,” he said. “No statement will be made as part of the Armstrong, Bruyneel and RadioShack. If a decision should be made, it would be under the auspices and under the rules of the UCI.”
In truth, unless there is specific proof of wrongdoing on the RadioShack Nissan team, it’s difficult to envisage the entire squad being excluded. However Bruyneel may find himself under pressure from either ASO or the team sponsor.0 -
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A notable absence from twitter since the moment the news broke is Johnathan Vaughters, he's a twitter addict and is usually online more often that not. What's he got to hide?0
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LeicesterLad wrote:A notable absence from twitter since the moment the news broke is Johnathan Vaughters, he's a twitter addict and is usually online more often that not. What's he got to hide?
Probably hiding from the inevitable onslaught of questions about whether or not he's one of the USADA 'Ten'.
I think 'yes'.0 -
Horner ties his flag to the mast of the Titanic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-h ... ng-cheated
No Chris, this definitely won't get you Andy's Tour spot.
Too much beetroot juice. :roll:"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Interesting that the article reflects on ASO protecting the reputation of the TdF. Anyone watching from outside the cycling fanbase might justifiably assert that the repuation is one of a flawed race with an endemic doping problem. A shame that the timing of this release just 2 weeks before the start will give the vultures in the press another carcass to hover over and report at length rather than report on the athletic spectacle of the tour. Another summers watching blighted by bad press!
D
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Sorry if this has been posted or debated but I've read the letter and it states more than ten (10) cyclists have testified.
More than 10 means at least 11 minimum who were on LA's team from 1998-2007 and as it's USADA I'm going to narrow down the search to only Americans on the team in that time period.
Lance - refused interview
Frankie Andreu
Tyler Hamilton
George Hincapie
Floyd Landis
Levi Leipheimer
Kevin Livingston
Christian VandeVelde
Jonathon Vaughters
Dave Zabriskie
All the above were part of at least one TdF team but they only total 9 so that leaves these guys to add on who would make more than ten (10). Here are the rest of the Americans who were on the team rosters in those years
Dylan Casey
David Clinger
Michael Creed
Antonio Cruz
Robbie Ventura
Marty Jemison
Damon Kluck
Kenny Labbe
Chann McRae
Kirk O'Bee
So unless someone can pull holes in my logic, that must mean there at least two more to pick from that group. Marty Jemison (from memory) used to live in Girona and ran bike tours so he may well have been pushing for a TdF spot and therefore privy to what went on. Chann McRae and LA go WAY back as juniors (along with Livingston) so they're the two most likely candidates. Tony Cruz could have been another but I'm surmising now.
I know people like to discredit Landis and Hamilton as liars but look through the list of who else was on the TdF USPS/Discovery teams and tell me if you think they're as easily discredited as witnesses.
The letter also states they are not disclosing names to prevent witness intimidation as has happened previously....0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Horner ties his flag to the mast of the Titanic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-h ... ng-cheated
No Chris, this definitely won't get you Andy's Tour spot.
Too much beetroot juice. :roll:
I guess it wasn't him after all"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Horner ties his flag to the mast of the Titanic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-h ... ng-cheatedThe guys that are saying it [doping] I have an idea who they are, just like you do, and you just have to wonder, are they telling the truth or not?
Well we have to wonder like he does (do we? Thanks Chris) if what 10 cyclists are saying (whatever it is) is a bunch of lies, and that's before we even hear it.0 -
ratsbeyfus wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:A notable absence from twitter since the moment the news broke is Johnathan Vaughters, he's a twitter addict and is usually online more often that not. What's he got to hide?
Probably hiding from the inevitable onslaught of questions about whether or not he's one of the USADA 'Ten'.
I think 'yes'.
Cheers rats
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Dodgeball - Keep him in, the irony is great.
Twitter/Paisley - Don't like Larry but would have gone to ride with him if I could as he is a (like it or not) Legend of the sport.
RSN - Will ride TdF but Hog less
Final outcome - everyone on the planet will view Larry as guilty but he and his pals will find some spin to portray him as victimised
UCI - No change - fat Pat is still TC
ASO - a lot of hand wringing but no change. He keeps the 7.
As to his legacy, grew up with the TdF on Channel 4 in the 80's. Lance became my hero and he let me down, but he was still my hero.0 -
mfin wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:Horner ties his flag to the mast of the Titanic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-h ... ng-cheatedThe guys that are saying it [doping] I have an idea who they are, just like you do, and you just have to wonder, are they telling the truth or not?
Well we have to wonder like he does (do we? Thanks Chris) if what 10 cyclists are saying (whatever it is) is a bunch of lies, and that's before we even hear it.
Poor guy still has concussion from TDF 11 it seems.
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Full Merckx wrote:Final outcome - everyone on the planet will view Larry as guilty but he and his pals will find some spin to portray him as victimised
If Wiggo wins in the tour, the awful ironic final outcome for me will be that I spent the last few years convincing disinterested friends that LA was a doper, and the next few years convincing same disinterested friends that Wiggo wasn't. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.0 -
In case this has been missed. As usual lots of good, old-fashioned honesty from Mr. Kimmage:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12114 ... truth.aspx0 -
Nothing from Ferrari as yet.
But while checking his site I found this quote:My experience, both as an athlete and as a coach, has repeatedly shown me that the MIND, in the constant search for improvement and perfection, often asks more than the BODY can give.
Dennis? Is that you? :shock: It all becomes clear...Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
For a moment I had a horrific vision where Wiggo wins the Tour, I spend years pointing out why we should suspect the result and would be naive to think that doping is no longer rife in the sport, in response being personally abused and called a 'cynic', seeing threads locked and all the rest, just as happened with regards Armstrong, only for all the dirt to once again come to light in about six years from now.ratsbeyfus wrote:If Wiggo wins in the tour, the awful ironic final outcome for me will be that I spent the last few years convincing disinterested friends that LA was a doper, and the next few years convincing same disinterested friends that Wiggo wasn't. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I hope that non of that ever happens of course!0 -
ratsbeyfus wrote:Full Merckx wrote:Final outcome - everyone on the planet will view Larry as guilty but he and his pals will find some spin to portray him as victimised
If Wiggo wins in the tour, the awful ironic final outcome for me will be that I spent the last few years convincing disinterested friends that LA was a doper, and the next few years convincing same disinterested friends that Wiggo wasn't. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
It's worse than mere irony, it's a major problem.
Dave_1 has always been right that chasing Lance could do massive damage to the sport (I've disagreed with him, I think it's necessary). But once all the headlines have been read there's a rebuilding program to be started.
Who is going to do that? There have to be believable teams with a commitment to clean racing. But as cycling fans we're looking for a syringe under every bed. We spent the last few days bickering about Sky - a team that has made a public commitment to riding clean and should be given the benefit of the doubt. We're going to be looking to teams like Garmin and Sky to show the way forward, but we're knifing them in the back...Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No 'twittering' from Wiggo yet either. Come on boy! It's not everyday that someone becomes the first Brit to 'podium' in the Tour de France.No tA Doctor wrote:Nothing from Ferrari as yet.
Hope he posts soon, from what I recall his twittering went all quiet for at least 5 days after Landis went public.
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BikingBernie wrote:No 'twittering' from Wiggo yet either. Come on boy! It's not everyday that someone becomes the first Brit to 'podium' in the Tour de France.
Hope he posts soon, from what I recall his twittering went all quiet for at least 5 days after Landis went public.
Understandable.
He has a difficult relationship with the press at the best of times. It would be so easy for whatever he did say to be misconstrued, taken out of context or plain misunderstood. I presume he doesn't want to add fuel to the fire, or to lose focus so close to the Tour.0 -
And how many teams have made similar 'commitments' in the past only for it to be shown that it was all PR and they were doping to the gills? Even Armstrong tried the same tactic with his bogus testing programme involving Don Catlin. And just look at all the drug busts in recent years in cycling, including in the Tour itself. As things stand no team deserves to be given 'the benefit of the doubt'.No tA Doctor wrote:We spent the last few days bickering about Sky - a team that has made a public commitment to riding clean and should be given the benefit of the doubt. We're going to be looking to teams like Garmin and Sky to show the way forward, but we're knifing them in the back...0
