Dauphine 2012 Spoiler

rick_chasey

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The Tour's the Tour.

It's exciting because it's the Tour - everyone cares, it matters, and we get wall-to-wall coverage of everything.

There's no race like it. The giro might have tougher parcours, prettier sights, better racing, but the Tour is raced harder and faster, and the vast majority of the world's best riders for GC and stages aim for it.

The Tour is the "Coldplay" of cycling.

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12846410&p=17550575&hilit=Clocks#p17550575

LangerDan

Rick Chasey wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The Tour's the Tour.

It's exciting because it's the Tour - everyone cares, it matters, and we get wall-to-wall coverage of everything.

There's no race like it. The giro might have tougher parcours, prettier sights, better racing, but the Tour is raced harder and faster, and the vast majority of the world's best riders for GC and stages aim for it.

The Tour is the "Coldplay" of cycling.

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12846410&p=17550575&hilit=Clocks#p17550575

Precisely!

inkyfingers

It's quite fashionable amongst some cycling fans to pretend not to care about the Tour de France and bang on about how boring it is and how great the Giro and the classics are.

I absolutely love the Giro, but is the racing really that much more exciting? How many truly great Giri have we had in the last ten years? 2 by my reckoning - 2005 and 2010. In contrast how many great Tours have we seen in the last 10 years, once again i'd say 2 - 2003 and 2011. The 2011 Giro was a turd, The 2009 and 2008 Giri were so memorable that I can barely remember them. 2007 was won by Danilo Di Luca. 2006 was a procession led by a man with more red blood cells in his body than your average hospital blood bank. The Giro has been even slower to clean up its act than the Tour and it's definitely suffered for it, at least Landis and Contador were caught and eventually stripped of their titles, Di Luca and Basso are still Giro winners. The only time it occassionally trumps the Tour is that the racing in some of the flat/intermediate stages can be a little more open, but that's about it really as far as I can see.

rick_chasey

Tour's the best stage race BY MILES, for entertainment and coverage.

I meant the above description as a good thing.

It's the hardest and fastest ridden race of the year.

frenchfighter

So Wiggins says in his article:

-As far as the time trial itself went, it was ridiculously windy, the worst I've ever done. At times it was touch and go; I was right on the limit of being blown off. You didn't dare take your hands off the bars to take a drink and there were times when you had to come off the -tr-bars to keep in control.

And yet they still managed to put 50 km/h times on the board?! Maybe they caught some tailwind, but it looks like the course was in one direction.

iainf72

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tour's the best stage race BY MILES, for entertainment and coverage.

I meant the above description as a good thing.

It's the hardest and fastest ridden race of the year.

It's the best for coverage, but it's not for entertainment. Sponsors get into cycling for the coverage they get from the Tour, so the racing tends to be bland and predictable. It's become a victim of its own success

I think people prefer the Giro because it tends to be a more beautiful race

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tour's the best stage race BY MILES, for entertainment and coverage.

I meant the above description as a good thing.

It's the hardest and fastest ridden race of the year.

It's the best for coverage, but it's not for entertainment. Sponsors get into cycling for the coverage they get from the Tour, so the racing tends to be bland and predictable. It's become a victim of its own success

I think people prefer the Giro because it tends to be a more beautiful race

I find the Tour more often more exciting than the Giro because I, and everyone else, cares more.

ddraver

I think a lot of people prefer the Giro bcasue it's cool to prefer the Giro...

Bit like Slagging off the Arctic Monkeys after they became famous.

RichN95.

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The Tour's the Tour.

It's exciting because it's the Tour - everyone cares, it matters, and we get wall-to-wall coverage of everything.

There's no race like it. The giro might have tougher parcours, prettier sights, better racing, but the Tour is raced harder and faster, and the vast majority of the world's best riders for GC and stages aim for it.

The Tour is the "Coldplay" of cycling.

What? Hated by people desperate to show how cool, alternative and informed they are?

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tour's the best stage race BY MILES, for entertainment and coverage.

I meant the above description as a good thing.

It's the hardest and fastest ridden race of the year.

It's the best for coverage, but it's not for entertainment. Sponsors get into cycling for the coverage they get from the Tour, so the racing tends to be bland and predictable. It's become a victim of its own success

I think people prefer the Giro because it tends to be a more beautiful race

I find the Tour more often more exciting than the Giro because I, and everyone else, cares more.

I have to agree with Rick, I always get very excited by the Giro but it rarely delivers as much as it promises. As I said above, the racing in the Giro in the last 10 years has rarely been that much more exciting than the Tour, at least in terms of the GC. The flat and intermediate stage are sometimes more interesting because of crashes and the fact that you don't tend to get big teams dominating the lead outs and the chase like you do at the Tour (though Liquigas have a fairly good crack).

As for saying that the Giro is a more beautiful race, arguing that Italy is more beautiful than France is like arguing over whether Brigitte Bardot or Marilyn Monroe was more attractive. They were both stunning in their day, just for different reasons. The Giro would be helped in this regard if Rai could only afford to buy some HD cameras.

TMR

I watched the last stage of the Dauphine on Eurosport HD. That was beautiful. Incredible scenery.

Not sure why we're having a pissing contest about which race is harder or prettier. Who cares? It's racing and therefore it's awesome

inkyfingers

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Not sure why we're having a pissing contest about which race is harder or prettier. Who cares? It's racing and therefore it's awesome

What else are we going to do?

Makes a change from moaning about the Schlecks and what shoes Mark Cavendish is wearing.

TMR

inkyfingers wrote:

What else are we going to do?

Makes a change from moaning about the Schlecks and what shoes Mark Cavendish is wearing.

I had hoped we might all just get along. I am feeling 'tree huggerish' today

rick_chasey

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Not sure why we're having a pissing contest about which race is harder or prettier. Who cares? It's racing and therefore it's awesome

For us fans, it's all pretty relevant - they're reason people are giving for why we like them more or less.

The Tour is to the cycling season what the olympics are to most olympics sports (take rowing). It just dominates everything else. This is the only race where everyone discusses it throughout the season.

You get the odd die hards who will go on about the classics prep. all year long, with route changes, discussions about classics contenders etc, and you get some who get all excited about the Giro, but everyone comments on the Tour, and everyone follows Tour contenders throughout the season to try and draw clues for the Tour.

That just doesn't happen for other races in the same way.

The reason I like the olympics 100m over, say, the Crystal palace 100m, is ultimately everyone, me, the athletes, the crowd, the media, care more about the 100m olympics.

inkyfingers

The Mad Rapper wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

What else are we going to do?

Makes a change from moaning about the Schlecks and what shoes Mark Cavendish is wearing.

I had hoped we might all just get along. I am feeling 'tree huggerish' today

Come one then everybody (that includes you Iain).....Group Hug!

TMR

inkyfingers wrote:

Come one then everybody (that includes you Iain).....Group Hug!

No hands below the waist please...

LangerDan

RichN95 wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The Tour's the Tour.

It's exciting because it's the Tour - everyone cares, it matters, and we get wall-to-wall coverage of everything.

There's no race like it. The giro might have tougher parcours, prettier sights, better racing, but the Tour is raced harder and faster, and the vast majority of the world's best riders for GC and stages aim for it.

The Tour is the "Coldplay" of cycling.

What? Hated by people desperate to show how cool, alternative and informed they are?

A quarter of a century ago I may have given a sh!t about being cool & alternative. Now I dislike stuff just because, well, I just don't like it. The Tour is like Coldplay simply because it frequently abuses its market dominance to serve up sub-quality product which a lesser event wouldn't get away with.

rick_chasey

Last year's tour was excellent.

Abdoujaparov

Important question is how can Porte and Froome descend? Wiggins could either get distanced or isolated if they struggle. EBH descending well won’t really cut it.

Would say Evans definitely gains an advantage from his race craft – the parcours may look sh*te, but there are still plenty of opps to make an ambush.

rick_chasey

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Important question is how can Porte and Froome descend? Wiggins could either get distanced or isolated if they struggle. EBH descending well won’t really cut it.

Would say Evans definitely gains an advantage from his race craft – the parcours may look sh*te, but there are still plenty of opps to make an ambush.

Any stages you had in mind for this?

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Last year's tour was excellent.

Unlike Coldplay's last album, which was underwhelming.

mididoctors

Rick Chasey wrote:

Last year's tour was excellent.

yeah it was...

Turfle

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Important question is how can Porte and Froome descend? Wiggins could either get distanced or isolated if they struggle. EBH descending well won’t really cut it.

Would say Evans definitely gains an advantage from his race craft – the parcours may look sh*te, but there are still plenty of opps to make an ambush.

Froome is an excellent descender - he followed the Movistar downhill attacks at the Vuelta where Wiggins couldn't. Porte has looked awful. Wiggins follow Froome, or EBH if he's there, and he'll be fine.

RichN95.

Turfle wrote:

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Important question is how can Porte and Froome descend? Wiggins could either get distanced or isolated if they struggle. EBH descending well won’t really cut it.

Would say Evans definitely gains an advantage from his race craft – the parcours may look sh*te, but there are still plenty of opps to make an ambush.

Froome is an excellent descender - he followed the Movistar downhill attacks at the Vuelta where Wiggins couldn't. Porte has looked awful. Wiggins follow Froome, or EBH if he's there, and he'll be fine.

So essentially the pecking order of descending abilities goes 1. Cross country skier (EBH), 2. Mountain biker (Froome), 3. Trackie (Wiggins), 4. Triathlete (Porte).
Makes sense.

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

2. Mountain biker (Froome).

Didn't know Froome was a mountain biker.

Is there a growing trend for successful switching of codes - Evans, Sagan, Ryder H, and Froome. Are there others?

iainf72

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

2. Mountain biker (Froome).

Didn't know Froome was a mountain biker.

Is there a growing trend for successful switching of codes - Evans, Sagan, Ryder H, and Froome. Are there others?

Landis and Rasmussen too

ddraver

If XC is dropped fom the Olympics (as is suggested), expect to see a whole lot more. Even with the popularity of XC (far more so than in the UK), the big money is on the road...

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

2. Mountain biker (Froome).

Didn't know Froome was a mountain biker.

Is there a growing trend for successful switching of codes - Evans, Sagan, Ryder H, and Froome. Are there others?

Fuglsang, Peraud and Cioni. Peraud still does quite a bit - he's doing it at the Olympics.
This month's Cycle Sport has a 'top ten ex-MTBers' feature.

gabriel959

Rick Chasey wrote:

Last year's tour was excellent.

Sorry but the Pyrenees were crap.

rick_chasey

gabriel959 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Last year's tour was excellent.

Sorry but the Pyrenees were crap.

Yeah. Alps made up for it though.

Both stages were epic in different ways.