Dauphine 2012 Spoiler

Pross

Looked fine to me. No point going harder and trying to deprive someone else of a stage win is the sort of thing that comes back to haunt you when you need friends. He easily crossed to the break on the penultimate climb leaving Evans to struggle a bit.

frenchfighter

Only two riders have ever won Paris Nice and the Dauphine in the same year, Anquetil and Merckx, both went on to win the Tour de France.

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

3.7 / 10 for the race.

I blame the stinker of a route for that.

Congratulations to Wiggins. A solid win

Harsh. What is the reasoning?

Good prologue, very exciting end to stage 1 which could well have been a sprint, a splintered finish on stage 2, EBH sprint win, a TT with a dominant performance from Wiggins, a breakaway including a last solo burst succeeding and action in GC group in stage 5, a solo win from an attack on the climb and holding out on a risky descent as well as lots of gaps and a Feillu 50km solo breakaway and a dig from Evans, then today.

Pretty decent I would. Sky being so dominant took some lustre of it but all in all, given the course, was a worth watching.

tailwindhome

frenchfighter wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

3.7 / 10 for the race.

I blame the stinker of a route for that.

Congratulations to Wiggins. A solid win

Harsh. What is the reasoning?

I enjoyed it too. Though I now better understand AFX's comments on the PTP thread. 'Who's here to win and who's here to train.'

Sky should be well pleased with their week's work. Aside from the overall and a couple of stages they''ll see this as a good dress rehearsal for the Tour.

thegibdog

Tom BB wrote:

How many times has the Paris-Nice-Romandy-Dauphine clean sweep been done before?

0

TMR

TailWindHome wrote:

Sky should be well pleased with their week's work.

100% this.

Too many stupid comments in this thread TBH. Stupid comments are stupid

ddraver

+1 MR - Well done Sky, and well done Wiggins! It's good fun when I can wind up the Dutchies!

Roll on July!!

Can't comment on the racing as i ve been too busy at work/moving house and it's been too inaccessible for me to watch!

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

+1 MR - Well done Sky, and well done Wiggins! It's good fun when I can wind up the Dutchies!

Roll on July!!

Can't comment on the racing as i ve been too busy at work/moving house and it's been too inaccessible for me to watch!

Been claiming you're Danish today?

ddraver

No, too be honest I was cheering for the Oranje (the girl next to me was hot! :oops: )

Plus, the Dutch team loosing and the Germans winning is bad enough for them really, and it's not like England are likely winners either, so glass houses and that

inkyfingers

I'm pretty sure that Wiggins simply sat up in the last KM today, he had well over a minute on Evans so there was no reason for him to cane it when he can roll over the line, raise his arms in the air and enjoy the moment.

Another very good win from Wiggins, he sure does look hard to beat....but the real beauty of this sport is that you never know what's going to happen over the 3 weeks! I think Evans is either going to have to be smarter, luckier or just take a lot more risks than Wiggins as can't see him gaining enought time on the road to balance the TT's. There are lots of people saying that Evan's will TT better than Wiggins in the third week but I don't see it myself, though the gaps might be closer than they were in the Dauphine. I'm just hoping for a good ding dong battle, would be happy if either of them won, though part of me would like to see Wiggins win to crown his recent achievements in the same way that Evans did last year. His style of winning may not be to everyones tastes but thats not his fault, he rides races to win, not please us. The other riders just have to work out how they can use their skills to beat him.

I am with Iain on the race overall though, i've enjoyed some of it but I do think that if you're going to have a very log TT then you need at least one proper summit finish to balance it out. It might not have changed the result (think there were 2 summit finishes last year and Wiggins still won), but it might just have opened it up a bit.

rick_chasey

In a normal tour I'd still back Evans to put Wiggins and sky in trouble, so we'd be in for a good race. Unfortunately, the race is a little flat for that.

Then again, form will be different come July, so maybe the route will suit....

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

In a normal tour I'd still back Evans to put Wiggins and sky in trouble, so we'd be in for a good race. Unfortunately, the race is a little flat for that.

Then again, form will be different come July, so maybe the route will suit....

Think we're all in agreement that the route looks a bit of a stinker, but sometimes even a bad route can make a great race if the riders are brave enough. Wiggins' rivals must know that unless he's peaked far too early then if they simply ride in his shadow for three weeks then the best they are likely to do is finish second. They either take the risk that he's peaked to early or will have a bad day or they all go mad and keep attacking him left right and centre, in which case things might get interesting...then again they might not.

You may have guessed it, but just i'm as clueless as the rest of you.

knedlicky

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Wiggins simply sat up in the last KM today, he had well over a minute on Evans so there was no reason for him to cane it when he can roll over the line, raise his arms in the air and enjoy the moment.

As I've already mentioned in an earlier post, I don't think Wiggins did sit up and simply rolled over the line, even if that was sufficient. I think the last km he was in difficulty .
If I'm right, it also showed how to attack Wiggins on climbs - multiple attacks from various contenders. Whether the contenders are prepared to take the risk in the TdF is another matter.

As for 'raise his arms and enjoy the moment', every tour winner has their pride and wants to appear part of things right to the end, but I don't think Wiggins managed that at all today. When he crossed the line, he raised his arms but showed no joy. It was a half-hearted gesture, perhaps self-concious, perhaps due to exhaustion, but not at all exhibiting any aspect of 'enjoy the moment'.

No doubt such doesn't matter to riders but how riders portray themselves to the public does matter, and today Wiggins, in his manner as he crossed the line, earned himself negative points.

ddraver

I'm sure he cares oh so much...

PBo

knedlicky wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Wiggins simply sat up in the last KM today, he had well over a minute on Evans so there was no reason for him to cane it when he can roll over the line, raise his arms in the air and enjoy the moment.

As I've already mentioned in an earlier post, I don't think Wiggins did sit up and simply rolled over the line, even if that was sufficient. I think the last km he was in difficulty .
If I'm right, it also showed how to attack Wiggins on climbs - multiple attacks from various contenders. Whether the contenders are prepared to take the risk in the TdF is another matter.

As for 'raise his arms and enjoy the moment', every tour winner has their pride and wants to appear part of things right to the end, but I don't think Wiggins managed that at all today. When he crossed the line, he raised his arms but showed no joy. It was a half-hearted gesture, perhaps self-concious, perhaps due to exhaustion, but not at all exhibiting any aspect of 'enjoy the moment'.

No doubt such doesn't matter to riders but how riders portray themselves to the public does matter, and today Wiggins, in his manner as he crossed the line, earned himself negative points.

Surely multiple attacks from various contenders is a good tactic against anyone?

He earned himself negative points? Really? Who with? Jeez, tough crowd!

No_Ta_Doctor

knedlicky wrote:

When he crossed the line, he raised his arms but showed no joy. It was a half-hearted gesture, perhaps self-concious, perhaps due to exhaustion, but not at all exhibiting any aspect of 'enjoy the moment'.

No doubt such doesn't matter to riders but how riders portray themselves to the public does matter, and today Wiggins, in his manner as he crossed the line, earned himself negative points.

He's a mod. They're far too cool for all that exuberance.

afx237vi

This is worth a read, regarding Wiggins' lack of outward happiness during his victory salute: http://inrng.com/2012/05/the-victory-salute/

RichN95.

knedlicky wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Wiggins simply sat up in the last KM today, he had well over a minute on Evans so there was no reason for him to cane it when he can roll over the line, raise his arms in the air and enjoy the moment.

As I've already mentioned in an earlier post, I don't think Wiggins did sit up and simply rolled over the line, even if that was sufficient. I think the last km he was in difficulty .

Here's the last 600m of today's stage. At 0.50 on the video, they are at 300m. Wiggins is about ten back and those in front of him (including Porte and EBH for Sky) start to get out of their saddles and charge for the line. Wiggins drops back a bit. We next see him at 1.04 in the background. He seems to be pottering along on the lowest gear his bike has offer. He certainly doesn't look like someone who's bothered by his time.

http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/prog ... e/1432617/

Uphill sprints aren't his forte, but I won't read too much into it.

cyclingsheep

Haha, lack of exuberance? If he'd gone nuts then this forum would be full of "it's only the Duaphine, let's see how he does in the Tour". He knows (as do we) what his focus is this year and yeah he's had a great year to date but this was a training ride. I'm sure he'll show plenty if he's in yellow in Paris.

liquor box

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Wiggins simply sat up in the last KM today, he had well over a minute on Evans so there was no reason for him to cane it when he can roll over the line, raise his arms in the air and enjoy the moment.

Another very good win from Wiggins, he sure does look hard to beat....but the real beauty of this sport is that you never know what's going to happen over the 3 weeks! I think Evans is either going to have to be smarter, luckier or just take a lot more risks than Wiggins as can't see him gaining enought time on the road to balance the TT's. There are lots of people saying that Evan's will TT better than Wiggins in the third week but I don't see it myself, though the gaps might be closer than they were in the Dauphine. I'm just hoping for a good ding dong battle, would be happy if either of them won, though part of me would like to see Wiggins win to crown his recent achievements in the same way that Evans did last year. His style of winning may not be to everyones tastes but thats not his fault, he rides races to win, not please us. The other riders just have to work out how they can use their skills to beat him.

I am with Iain on the race overall though, i've enjoyed some of it but I do think that if you're going to have a very log TT then you need at least one proper summit finish to balance it out. It might not have changed the result (think there were 2 summit finishes last year and Wiggins still won), but it might just have opened it up a bit.

I think Wiggins took it easy to try to give his team a bit of a go at some limelight, he knows that Team Sky being hedlined benefits him in the long run and allow the others in his team to feel a bit more special that just being helpers for him.
I think Wiggins will win the TDF, and will beat Evans in all time trials, but maybe by a little less than in this race, I think it will be closer to 30 seconds per TT, so about 1.30min over the race. I think Wiggins attack at the end of the second last hill was of no concern to Evans and this is why he did not keep up, the attack by Evans at the end had more importance to me.
If we see the "proper" mountain men who dont TT well do repeated attacks at sever acceleration during the TDF (as they will have to) then I think that Evans will keep closer to them that Wiggins and this is what Evans will need to do, he really needs to look for 10-15 seconds a day over Wiggins when possible.

Tom Butcher

I think a lot depends on whether they can isolate Wiggins. If he's on his own then he's vulnerable to repeated attacks. If he's got 2-3 domestiques to drive a consistent hard pace then I doubt the other GC contenders have the ability to attack so hard that Wiggins has to respond himself. In that case they might have to look at other ways to take time - attacking on descents, maybe taking time bonuses if they have them this year - stuff like that.

Is Sky are dominant in the way USPostal were but Wiggins can't finish the job in the way Armstrong could then the mountain stages could see fairly small time differences between the GC contenders and ten seconds here and twenty seconds there could become significant.

inkyfingers

knedlicky wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Wiggins simply sat up in the last KM today, he had well over a minute on Evans so there was no reason for him to cane it when he can roll over the line, raise his arms in the air and enjoy the moment.

As I've already mentioned in an earlier post, I don't think Wiggins did sit up and simply rolled over the line, even if that was sufficient. I think the last km he was in difficulty .
If I'm right, it also showed how to attack Wiggins on climbs - multiple attacks from various contenders. Whether the contenders are prepared to take the risk in the TdF is another matter.

I guess the only guy who knows is Brad, and you never get a straight answer out of him!

I do agree with your point though, the one area where he perhaps remains unproven is when you have multiple attacks going off the front, can he cope with that? If his team are as strong at the Tour as they were here then that will help him a lot as they can set a high pace and help chase anybody down who does get a gap. It will also depend on how many of the best climbers go to the Tour with good legs and can stay within reach of the GC in the second and third weeks. If both Schlecks, Gesink, Valverde, Van Den Broeck etc all have the legs to launch big attacks (lets hope so eh!) then can they put him into difficulty? Of course that sort of racing won't suit particularly well Evans either. If he is to win again I can see Evans doing it by taking little chunks of time here and there.

rick_chasey

Wiggins, like us, knows that he needs to peak for the Tour, not the Dauphine > and he's got enough people around him and given it enough thought that you'd think he's on top of that.

However, given Wiggin's experience riding GTs as favourite over, say, Evans, you'd say Evans is more likely to get it spot on than Wiggins, given his better/longer experience.


That's not to say Wiggins won't, but I reckon we can be pretty sure Evans will.

frenchfighter

afx237vi wrote:

This is worth a read, regarding Wiggins' lack of outward happiness during his victory salute: http://inrng.com/2012/05/the-victory-salute/

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2007/12 ... alute.html

He knows how to salute

liquor box

Rick Chasey wrote:

However, given Wiggin's experience riding GTs as favourite over, say, Evans, you'd say Evans is more likely to get it spot on than Wiggins, given his better/longer experience.

That is true, as is saying that they are a year older this time around, but I think age will have more of an effect on Evans and his ability to recover.

inkyfingers

liquor box wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

However, given Wiggin's experience riding GTs as favourite over, say, Evans, you'd say Evans is more likely to get it spot on than Wiggins, given his better/longer experience.

That is true, as is saying that they are a year older this time around, but I think age will have more of an effect on Evans and his ability to recover.

We also shouldn't forget that Cadel has got it wrong a few times with his preparation for GTs, even if recent years;

In 2009 he finished 30th in the Tour having raced hard at the Dauphine (luckily he won a little race in September to rescue his season).
In the 2010 Giro he looked great in the first half of the race before fading badly in the final week (probably as a result of peaking for the Ardennes classics a few weeks before).

You could argue that 2011 was the first time that he really got it right, having said that Evans has still ridden more GTs for the win than Wiggins so assuming he has his 2011 form then his experience might just give him an edge.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

liquor box wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

However, given Wiggin's experience riding GTs as favourite over, say, Evans, you'd say Evans is more likely to get it spot on than Wiggins, given his better/longer experience.

That is true, as is saying that they are a year older this time around, but I think age will have more of an effect on Evans and his ability to recover.

We also shouldn't forget that Cadel has got it wrong a few times with his preparation for GTs, even if recent years;

In 2009 he finished 30th in the Tour having raced hard at the Dauphine (luckily he won a little race in September to rescue his season).
In the 2010 Giro he looked great in the first half of the race before fading badly in the final week (probably as a result of peaking for the Ardennes classics a few weeks before).

You could argue that 2011 was the first time that he really got it right, having said that Evans has still ridden more GTs for the win than Wiggins so assuming he has his 2011 form then his experience might just give him an edge.

Could cite the same inconsistency for Wiggins.

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

liquor box wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

However, given Wiggin's experience riding GTs as favourite over, say, Evans, you'd say Evans is more likely to get it spot on than Wiggins, given his better/longer experience.

That is true, as is saying that they are a year older this time around, but I think age will have more of an effect on Evans and his ability to recover.

We also shouldn't forget that Cadel has got it wrong a few times with his preparation for GTs, even if recent years;

In 2009 he finished 30th in the Tour having raced hard at the Dauphine (luckily he won a little race in September to rescue his season).
In the 2010 Giro he looked great in the first half of the race before fading badly in the final week (probably as a result of peaking for the Ardennes classics a few weeks before).

You could argue that 2011 was the first time that he really got it right, having said that Evans has still ridden more GTs for the win than Wiggins so assuming he has his 2011 form then his experience might just give him an edge.

Could cite the same inconsistency for Wiggins.

Absolutely, I think they are hard to seperate in most respects. The only major difference is that only one of them has actually won a GT.

I'm not afraid to admit that despite a weedy looking parcours I am still very excited about Le Tour.

rick_chasey

The Tour's the Tour.

It's exciting because it's the Tour - everyone cares, it matters, and we get wall-to-wall coverage of everything.

There's no race like it. The giro might have tougher parcours, prettier sights, better racing, but the Tour is raced harder and faster, and the vast majority of the world's best riders for GC and stages aim for it.

LangerDan

Rick Chasey wrote:

The Tour's the Tour.

It's exciting because it's the Tour - everyone cares, it matters, and we get wall-to-wall coverage of everything.

There's no race like it. The giro might have tougher parcours, prettier sights, better racing, but the Tour is raced harder and faster, and the vast majority of the world's best riders for GC and stages aim for it.

The Tour is the "Coldplay" of cycling.