It's Official Schleck Brothers Suck

ocdupalais

frenchfighter wrote:

'I've always said I have directed four great riders in my career: Hinault, Fignon, LeMond and Andy.' -Guimard.

I enjoy the Schleck-baiting as much as the next playground bully.
Andy, the gifted class geek, in particular, might benefit in terms of traditional "public relations" (i.e. not saying stuff that hasn't gone through levels of clearance) from keeping schtum from time to time (not for the press & braying masses, though - they love him!): but here's what I think:
He's NOT impervious to public opinion of him - he'll try something big at the Dauphiné - possibly a mini-version of last year's Galibier Tour stage on stage 6 (then see how he's fixed for the final stage).
Pretty much everyone is in agreement that he's the only rider in the current peloton who can trouble the rider currently regarded as the best climber of the current generation (who's not currently actually riding).
My suspicion is that he's not that far off top form as people are doubting.

I also suspect he's given up on this year's Tour overall, too - thinking solely of attacking certain stages with Grand Gestures: he'll be hoping that the 2013 Tour route will be a TT-lite 4-way punch-up with Bertie, Wiggo, Cuddles and himself

RichN95.

OCDuPalais wrote:

I also suspect he's given up on this year's Tour overall, too - thinking solely of attacking certain stages with Grand Gestures: he'll be hoping that the 2013 Tour route will be a TT-lite 4-way punch-up with Bertie, Wiggo, Cuddles and himself

Why would he have given up on it?The course may favour others but it doesn't eliminate his chances. The 2008 route had 30km and 53km time-trials, not that much less than this year. The winner wasn't a noted time triallist.

ocdupalais

RichN95 wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

I also suspect he's given up on this year's Tour overall, too - thinking solely of attacking certain stages with Grand Gestures: he'll be hoping that the 2013 Tour route will be a TT-lite 4-way punch-up with Bertie, Wiggo, Cuddles and himself

Why would he have given up on it?The course may favour others but it doesn't eliminate his chances. The 2008 route had 30km and 53km time-trials, not that much less than this year. The winner wasn't a noted time triallist.

OK - not "given up", but he's not going to fight toe-to-toe with the other contenders on this one.
Sastre won in 2008, ironically in this instance, by pulling off a coup on Alpe D'Huez with the Schlecks on his team (therefore disallowed from chasing).
The long TT in that Tour was won by Schumacher (!), with Cancellara in 2nd - Even Evans was 2 mins back. Andy was over 4 min back.
The way Wiggins (and the new "Attacking Evans") have been riding over the last couple of years suggest that either of the Schlecks will need at least 4 mins advantage going into the last TT. I don't see that happening.

But then that's all "on paper"; and that's why I love this sport.

ddraver

I feel you re speaking some sense here OCU.....intriguing!

Remarkable

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andy-sc ... ems-in-may

rick_chasey

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12044 ... Nation.com)

Told ya he was blowing hard, rather than 'protesting;'.

ddraver

GIFSoup

frenchfighter

The Italian media talks so much BS.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schleck ... o-bruyneel

iainf72

Inrng brings some common sense to the discussion

http://inrng.com/2012/06/andy-schleck-d ... omparison/

frenchfighter

Yeah got a couple of photos of him in that race. Thing is though - consistency. How many similar GC riders could roll in for 5 days then put in a monster performance? A lot easier than remaining top all Tour.

Obviously if anyone else was terrible all year round apart from fleeting moments then was able to race the hardest race in the calendar and remain top for three weeks against the best riders going, it would be regarded as massively curious.

frenchfighter

TDS10

Gesink monsters stage 6 with a solo performance of class (last 8km http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yoaw9HY6j8). He would take the verall apart from a weak final ITT (Frank Schleck beat him to take overall). Thats class, not doing what he did on stage 6 and rolling in minutes down the final GC.

rick_chasey

It's been said before. Andy, by nature of his build - has a very narrow window of high performance, that's heavily reliant on his weight.

frenchfighter

I'd say Wiggins is more ripped than him and similar weight. Wiggins has ridden like a champion this year and has a palmares to prove it.

iainf72

http://twitter.com/millarmind/status/210404303213568001

frenchfighter

You see though, some people only watch the Tour. For them if Andy lights it up they will think positively of him. For the ardent fans, who watch races all season long, andy is very poor value. If he puts some good performances in, I will congratulate him on his curiously good performance but say he is still a slouch, not a good example of a pro, not a rider for the fans, not a champion, frankly a lightweight. And that I will say even if he wins the Tour.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

You see though, some people only watch the Tour. For them if Andy lights it up they will think positively of him. For the ardent fans, who watch races all season long, andy is very poor value. If he puts some good performances in, I will congratulate him on his curiously good performance but say he is still a slouch, not a good example of a pro, not a rider for the fans, not a champion, frankly a lightweight. And that I will say even if he wins the Tour.

He provides most fans with excellent value because they haven't given him a penny. Yet they expect him to perform on demand like some dancing monkey. How he races is between him and his employers - if they're happy with him just performing at the Tour then fine. If he doesn't want his entire life dictated by his job, then that's his choice - not ours. Much of the criticism of him seems to stem from him living his life as he wants to and not as the performing monkey that the armchair DSs demand.

iainf72

He's also had an injured knee.

cycling5280

frenchfighter wrote:

You see though, some people only watch the Tour. For them if Andy lights it up they will think positively of him. For the ardent fans, who watch races all season long, andy is very poor value. If he puts some good performances in, I will congratulate him on his curiously good performance but say he is still a slouch, not a good example of a pro, not a rider for the fans, not a champion, frankly a lightweight. And that I will say even if he wins the Tour.

Well said. I knock Andy and call him out because of his rather poor year-to-date performance, lack of racing and lots of whining. That said, I hope he finds his form in the Tour and makes it exciting. If he wins it will be impressive but like frenchfigher said Andy is a "lightweight".

cycling5280

iainf72 wrote:

He's also had an injured knee.

He also had this to say before the Dauphine. Interesting his "knee problem" was just mentioned now.

“It was a good experience since I’d never done that before,” Schleck said. “I did something between 25,000 and 30,000 metres of climbing in twelve days – around three cols a day. I was able to ride for six hours without any problem there, but we’ll see at the Dauphiné how that transfers over.”


excuses, excuses, excuses....

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

You see though, some people only watch the Tour. For them if Andy lights it up they will think positively of him. For the ardent fans, who watch races all season long, andy is very poor value. If he puts some good performances in, I will congratulate him on his curiously good performance but say he is still a slouch, not a good example of a pro, not a rider for the fans, not a champion, frankly a lightweight. And that I will say even if he wins the Tour.

He provides most fans with excellent value because they haven't given him a penny. Yet they expect him to perform on demand like some dancing monkey. How he races is between him and his employers - if they're happy with him just performing at the Tour then fine. If he doesn't want his entire life dictated by his job, then that's his choice - not ours. Much of the criticism of him seems to stem from him living his life as he wants to and not as the performing monkey that the armchair DSs demand.

Yes Rich, you state the obvious.

If we took that line then the forum would be pretty lite wouldnt it. Not being able to provide opinion as they are allowed to do whatever they please and it has nothing to do with us.

Just note that if fans didnt exist, this sport would not exist as there would be zero funding from sponsors.

frenchfighter

Anyway, for the Schleck lovers, here is full coverage of his Galibier stage attack and win:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqCzDxAqqAQ

jonginge

Monfort was the unsung hero of that attack. Buried himself to get AS to the galibier with a decent advantage

Bakunin

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's been said before. Andy, by nature of his build - has a very narrow window of high performance, that's heavily reliant on his weight.

Didn't Lance use this excuse as well?
:roll:

tailwindhome

I think he's bluffing.

dennisn

Bakunin wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's been said before. Andy, by nature of his build - has a very narrow window of high performance, that's heavily reliant on his weight.

Didn't Lance use this excuse as well?
:roll:

Don't see how a thing like that is an excuse. Sounds more like a simple reason to me.

LeicesterLad

Kim Anderson and Andy Schleck still buddies? http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andersen-cant-explain-schlecks-performance-problems

rick_chasey

JonGinge wrote:

Monfort was the unsung hero of that attack. Buried himself to get AS to the galibier with a decent advantage

And Seeldrayers.

Wasn't even on the same team .

Tom Butcher

Time will tell if he's bluffing or not. Personally I think it's probably a bit of both - he knows he doesn't have the form to stay with WIggins and Evans in this race so he's not trying to. I don't think that's necessarily a problem - dropping off the pace in the last 10km or so isn't such a bad idea if he's riding it for training.

I don't buy the line it's unfair on the fans - riders have always used races as preparation for other races - if he thinks he can best prepare by not going full gas in the Dauphine then that's his call. Only the other day a number of us were unsure whether it was a good idea for Wiggins to go for the win here or whether he'd end up peaking too soon - so there will be criticism either way.

frenchfighter

[Andy] “likes to go in the gruppetto and take it easy in the races where he’s not in contention for the win. It’s not the way I race. But, the last few years he’s gone to the Tour, he’s been up there. So why not be up there again this year?” Evans said.

“I read the things about the Schleck brothers and [team manager Johan] Bruyneel, but I read it all with a grain of salt.”

inkyfingers

Tom Butcher wrote:

I don't buy the line it's unfair on the fans - riders have always used races as preparation for other races - if he thinks he can best prepare by not going full gas in the Dauphine then that's his call. Only the other day a number of us were unsure whether it was a good idea for Wiggins to go for the win here or whether he'd end up peaking too soon - so there will be criticism either way.

I'm loathe to join in this discussion but the difference is that Brad has already won some good races this year, so if he had decided to ease off the gas in the Dauphine to prepare for the Tour then I doubt he would have got the same amount of flak as Andy has.

Having said that, Andy's performance doesn't really seem much different to any other year, the only difference is that he didn't even show himself in the Ardenne classics this year. If he has a good Tour (whether he wins it or just goes mad and wins a couple of mountain stages) then this will all get forgotten about until next year. He hasn't won a serious race outside of the Tour since 2009 so we shouldn't be surprised (no, the Luxembourg TT championship is not a serious race).