Giro Stage 15 *spoiler*
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:Sunday night. Work tomorrow - am not in a good mood :P.
But I thought you spent most of your time at work posting on this forum?0 -
Good discussion last few pages you guys.
AP
Still riding his Pink Canyon!
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Nice photos Frenchie!
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How long was this heavyweight solo for? 100km? Amazing.
“Slowly but surely, the overall classification of the Giro d’Italia is taking shape. At the end of next week, we can arrive at a higher position. The fight is very open. There’s one week of battles to come. The three hardest stages are yet to come. I remain very, very confident. The public has been wonderful to me. I’ve suffered a lot in the wet downhills but the people’s support has helped me a lot. I’m convinced that my behavior and my team’s behavior are right. I’m sure that it’ll pay off at the end of next week. We ride for winning the Giro. We have to continue this way. People say that my team exposes itself too much to the wind but we just ride the same way we did in 2010.”
-Basso
ps. Lance wins Florida Ironman today.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Out of interest, has Rodriguez ever made a longer attack, the sort that could put serious time into a rider like Basso, or has he only ever put in a punch in the last couple of kms?
I've always understood he was basically a puncheur for the steeper mountains, superb attack, but not someone that can solo a climb with real speed. The Stelvio is the queen stage, and I don't think it's his sort of mountain.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I think that he was solo for more than 100km FF...I seem to remember a graphic that said that he went away at 18km? Monster effort!0
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frenchfighter wrote:ps. Lance wins Florida Ironman today.
'twas only a half IM but still a convincing win at Florida 70.3.
4th fastest swim, 1st bike and 1st run. Although the competition didn't look that tough, he won by a long way and run sub 1:16.
Oh and I loved toaday's stage. The wife gave me into trouble for cheering so loudly at the Rabo's win.0 -
You know it was a shiite day at the Giro when folks resort to digging up a former pro's exploits
at some semi-geriatric competition, in the geriatric state.
For Basso, it's all about confronting on conquering those Stelvio ghosties and poaching another GT in the process.
For the rest, it should be about making that dream impossible, before Saturday.
So far, all we have had is pretty much stalemate."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:You know it was a shiite day at the Giro when folks resort to digging up a former pro's exploits
at some semi-geriatric competition, in the geriatric state.
For Basso, it's all about confronting on conquering those Stelvio ghosties and poaching another GT in the process.
For the rest, it should be about making that dream impossible, before Saturday.
So far, all we have had is pretty much stalemate.
Man, this following on Rick's comments re Le Chipper de California and Iainf's general demeanour, we should have forum jersey (grey?) for grumpiest old git wot is never happy.
That was a superb stage. Even the missus watched to see if that "nice fellow in yellow" could hang on.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
Timoid. wrote:Blazing Saddles wrote:You know it was a shiite day at the Giro when folks resort to digging up a former pro's exploits
at some semi-geriatric competition, in the geriatric state.
For Basso, it's all about confronting on conquering those Stelvio ghosties and poaching another GT in the process.
For the rest, it should be about making that dream impossible, before Saturday.
So far, all we have had is pretty much stalemate.
Man, this following on Rick's comments re Le Chipper de California and Iainf's general demeanour, we should have forum jersey (grey?) for grumpiest old git wot is never happy.
That was a superb stage. Even the missus watched to see if that "nice fellow in yellow" could hang on.
It was classed as a high mountain stage and the GC favourites did what, exactly?
The breakaway guys have saved this Giro's penultimate weekend, with some superb performances,
but is this what a GT should be about on stage 15?
A reminder: This time last year, (in the less than stellar 2011 race) we had Valle de Fasso and Nieve holding
off a charging (or should that read charged?) Contador.
That one kicked off the GC action, 3 climbs out.
This one kicked off the GC action, 2 kms out."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Didn't the GC battle start today when Cunego went up the road? Not sure, but I think that might have been 4 climbs out.0
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Great performance by Rabottini. In a way, already ‘the stage performance’ of the whole Giro.
I’m not even sure Rodriguez gifted him the win - to me Rodriguez looked at his limit.
For me, it’s hard to understand how someone who shows their (albeit undisputed) ability over 300 m can be more acclaimed than someone who rides that distance (100 km) alone and then still wins.
In many cases, sprinter victories deserve team praise rather than praise of the individual who actually won (like in football teams, often who scored the winning goal doesn't matter).0 -
Coriander wrote:
Ah, Ok, her Italian will be better than mine, her being Italian an' all, but still...iainf72 wrote:
Yup, Scarponi. Cadel Evans lovely wife Chiara calls him Little Boots.Coriander wrote:
I think he means Scarponi. Though Scarponi actually means Big Shoes.greasedscotsman wrote:
Who is Little Boots? Basso? Explain!iainf72 wrote:Little Boots also recovers well.
Evans’ wife may well have been sarcastic when she referred to Scarponi as “Little Boots” (Scarpa being the word for shoes and the suffix ‘ino’ being often used to designate smaller versions of anything).
But I think she was using a little poetic licence to arrive at that term, because actually Scarponi means ‘hobnailed walking boots’, as used by workmen and the military of several armies in the first half of the last century – nonetheless hardly inspiring.
Maybe accurate for Scarponi, though!0 -
He didn’t drop his main rivals though, and his effort soon petered out.iainf72 wrote:
So when he took over from Sly and dropped half the group in a few seconds, that's not threatening? I'm not saying he may not have a bad day, but his tactic [tm Sean Kelly] is going to be to knacker everyone out over 3 weeks and do one big push next Friday or Saturday.Timoid. wrote:But never looks threatening.
If Basso didn’t have it in himself today to more out-distance some of his main rivals when ‘the going got tough’, why did he have Liquigas do so much work at the front?
The same applies to yesterday. His team might well be exhausted by the time they reach the Stelvio.
I couldn’t quite make out Lampre tactics today either. It was a shame nothing came of Cunego’s initiatives, but also a waste for the Lampre team.
Still, I wonder if Astana should try a similar tactic, getting Tiralongo up front in a break, for Kreuziger to later join him.
Rodriguez is master at a quick spurt after a steady pace up the mountain, but I wonder how he’d cope if a main rival attacked much earlier.0 -
The above made me smile because there is some truth in it, but on the other hand Italians don’t like the idea that Basso might win by merely gradually exhausting his competitors; it’s not the Italian way!Rick Chasey wrote:Basso's a bit goldilocks :P.
S'why the Italian's like him. And his boyish looks.
Italians like people they think they can mother.
My impression from Italian fans is that Basso is more liked than Scarponi, but who they’d really like to do well is Pinotti (who had a couple of strokes of bad luck today), and who they also admire is Cunego, for his courage and effort to enliven things.
For many of them, if Basso out-distances his rivals on the Stelvio, it won’t have to be on the last 2-3 serpentines, rather at least from the hiking turn-off to the Payer-Hütte (called the Franzenshöhe, hairpin 22 counting from the top down), so still with 560 m climbing to go.0 -
knedlicky wrote:
The above made me smile because there is some truth in it, but on the other hand Italians don’t like the idea that Basso might win by merely gradually exhausting his competitors; it’s not the Italian way!Rick Chasey wrote:Basso's a bit goldilocks :P.
S'why the Italian's like him. And his boyish looks.
Italians like people they think they can mother.
Catenaccio?0 -
afx237vi wrote:knedlicky wrote:
The above made me smile because there is some truth in it, but on the other hand Italians don’t like the idea that Basso might win by merely gradually exhausting his competitors; it’s not the Italian way!Rick Chasey wrote:Basso's a bit goldilocks :P.
S'why the Italian's like him. And his boyish looks.
Italians like people they think they can mother.
Catenaccio?
Absolutely. Cagey and tactical is the Italian way. 'Panache' is a French word (for failing with style).
I was impressed by Henao today. He could be a very big name for the future, especially if Sky teach him to TT.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Was at intermediate sprint and then did creative road selection to dodge road blocks & got to 5km from finish. Really good day of racing. Got some good updates from Twitter & texts.0
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You're talking about another era. Occasionally Catenaccio appears and succeeds in football (Greece during Euro-Championships 2004) but overall it's 'passe'.RichN95 wrote:
Absolutely. Cagey and tactical is the Italian way. 'Panache' is a French word (for failing with style).afx237vi wrote:
Catenaccio?knedlicky wrote:
The above made me smile because there is some truth in it, but on the other hand Italians don’t like the idea that Basso might win by merely gradually exhausting his competitors; it’s not the Italian way!Rick Chasey wrote:Basso's a bit goldilocks :P.
S'why the Italian's like him. And his boyish looks.
Italians like people they think they can mother.
Also I can't really think of any recent Catenaccio approach in cycling - none of the recent Italian heroes I know of won only by defensive tactics.
'Cagey' is fine, but I don't think solely the Italian way or that negative. If Sky aren't sometimes 'cagey' too, there is something lacking in their preparation.
'Panache' doesn't mean 'failing with style' but verve, dash, elan. That was the whole topic of a thread on the forum not that long ago.0 -
knedlicky wrote:'Panache' doesn't mean 'failing with style' but verve, dash, elan. That was the whole topic of a thread on the forum not that long ago.
And I believe that that thread pointed to the history of 'panache' being very much failing with style. (See early references in Cyrano de Bergerac)
The Italians and French always see things differently. For example in cycling, look at their attitude to the backmarkers on the mountain stages. The Italians have always seen it as their duty to push the stragglers up the slopes (as seen with Cavendish this Giro) - they say Cipollini could climb a mountain without turning a pedal - while for the French such behaviour is an anathema. Such differences have been decades in the making and should be appreciated.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Maybe you see things differently based on what you've watched of the Giro and TdF on TV, but from my own experience at amateur race level, the French spectators behave the same how you feel the Italian spectators behave. As example, at a race I did in the Jura about 8 years ago, where the gradient was 20-25% for about 500 m, almost all riders were given a helping hand.RichN95 wrote:The Italians and French always see things differently. For example in cycling, look at their attitude to the backmarkers on the mountain stages. The Italians have always seen it as their duty to push the stragglers up the slopes (as seen with Cavendish this Giro) - they say Cipollini could climb a mountain without turning a pedal - while for the French such behaviour is an anathema. Such differences have been decades in the making and should be appreciated.
In my first ever event in France, when I was so far up the Galibier, and well behind the main field, a Deux-Chevaux stopped and asked if I needed a lift to the top of the pass (in my inexperience of the Alps at the time, I foolishly had something like a 42/23 as my lowest gear, so was obviously struggling). So, as I didn't think I would make the cut-off at the finish, I accepted.
I know with hindsight what I did might be considered unethical or cheating, but without that lift I probably wouldn't have arrived at the finish (about 50 km SE of Briancon) before everyone had gone home for the day. And anyway, I still finished last.
(I have twice since rode the Galibier unaided, once as part of the Marmotte)
I know there is a difference in speed and ability between amateurs and professionals, and out of respect, conscience or fair play, spectators in France may be more reluctant help professionals, but to say spectator-help might more easily occur in Italy than France I think wrong.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Didn't the GC battle start today when Cunego went up the road? Not sure, but I think that might have been 4 climbs out.
So, Cunego is a GC contender on a mission, rather than a senior pro with the flexible job description of roving domestique/stage scavenger?
OK: Pretty sure I can't qualify my point on those terms."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Didn't the GC battle start today when Cunego went up the road? Not sure, but I think that might have been 4 climbs out.
So, Cunego is a GC contender on a mission, rather than a senior pro with the flexible job description of roving domestique/stage scavenger?
OK: Pretty sure I can't qualify my point on those terms.
You'd put Cunego in the same bracket as Gilbert re-style.
I didn't see the 2004 Giro so I've never seen him climb with the best.
If Gilbert went for GC, he'd do pretty similarly to Cunego.0 -
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Blazing Saddles wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Didn't the GC battle start today when Cunego went up the road? Not sure, but I think that might have been 4 climbs out.
So, Cunego is a GC contender on a mission, rather than a senior pro with the flexible job description of roving domestique/stage scavenger?
OK: Pretty sure I can't qualify my point on those terms.
Cunego is a previous winner of the Giro who at that point was 2:43 off the race lead. OK, he certainly isn't a favourite and it is a bit of a gamble, but you send him up the road to make the other teams chase so that Lampre have more riders on the final climb that anyone else. If you don't chase he is a good enough rider to win, given a big enough lead.
Seem to remember that's how he won the race in 2004. He was sent away in a break in the stage to Falzes, no one chased until it was far to late and he takes enough of a lead to win the race.0 -
RichN95 wrote:The Italians and French always see things differently. For example in cycling, look at their attitude to the backmarkers on the mountain stages. The Italians have always seen it as their duty to push the stragglers up the slopes (as seen with Cavendish this Giro) - they say Cipollini could climb a mountain without turning a pedal - while for the French such behaviour is an anathema. Such differences have been decades in the making and should be appreciated.
Nothing like a bit of stereotyping eh? Anyway, I've seen just as many riders getting pushes in the Giro as the Tour.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Last 2km from today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... vtNmlTCZP4
Thanks for that - Bl00dy Eurosport timings and Sky+ stopped recording just as Rabottini passed under the 1Km banner
Not the first time either, it did it on MSR earlier this year :evil:0 -
brettjmcc wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Last 2km from today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... vtNmlTCZP4
Thanks for that - Bl00dy Eurosport timings and Sky+ stopped recording just as Rabottini passed under the 1Km banner
Not the first time either, it did it on MSR earlier this year :evil:
Why did you not record the diving afterward? Late finishes are pretty much part and parcel...___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
knedlicky wrote:Coriander wrote:
Ah, Ok, her Italian will be better than mine, her being Italian an' all, but still...iainf72 wrote:
Yup, Scarponi. Cadel Evans lovely wife Chiara calls him Little Boots.Coriander wrote:
I think he means Scarponi. Though Scarponi actually means Big Shoes.greasedscotsman wrote:
Who is Little Boots? Basso? Explain!iainf72 wrote:Little Boots also recovers well.
Evans’ wife may well have been sarcastic when she referred to Scarponi as “Little Boots” (Scarpa being the word for shoes and the suffix ‘ino’ being often used to designate smaller versions of anything).
But I think she was using a little poetic licence to arrive at that term, because actually Scarponi means ‘hobnailed walking boots’, as used by workmen and the military of several armies in the first half of the last century – nonetheless hardly inspiring.
Maybe accurate for Scarponi, though!
This sort of debate, twinned with the catenaccio one, illustrates why the Tour of Cali will always be a chipper.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:
This sort of debate, twinned with the catenaccio one, illustrates why the Tour of Cali will always be a chipper.
A ToC based Man vs. Food episode my change that.
[enthusiastic american accent]
"I'm here, in San Francisco, following the TOUR OF CALIFORNIA BIKE RACE to see if I can take on, the ToC Man vs. Food challange - having to eat 5lbs worth of energy gels. So far, 10 out 10 people have FAILED. "
[/enthusiastic american accent]0
