Paris - Roubaix *spoiler*

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  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    NeilMick wrote:
    Anyone else suprised by his sudden turn around in form...

    *Quadruple facepalm* (appropriate i think)... spend a few minutes perusing this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Boonen

    Particularly the bit on the right at the top that says 'Single-Day Races and Classics'.

    Thanks.
    Canyon Endurace CF 2014 | Canyon Ultimate CF 2010
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    edited April 2012
    TailWindHome wrote:
    I'm embarassed for Sky.

    How so? Surely tactics get you so far and your legs get you the rest of the way. Hayman and stannard did all they could to push flecha and EBH. EBH is surely not in form and possibly looking to summer and tdf and flecha is coming back from broken hand. How is that embarrassing? There was plenty of talent in there but no one, sky or otherwise, has the same form right now as boonen. Added to his guts and talent he wasn't being brought back no matter on what tactics you used.

    I am interested though in understanding how you all think it should have been played. My contention is sky in particular got in the chase when boonen went, none of their team had the legs to take the gap down but they pegged it back for 30km. Bar swapping to motorbikes it would seem you are suggesting they were physically capable and just didn't go?

    I fully expected boonen to slow, that one man vs a group of 13 woyldn't last but I always forget that classics is a mismatch of those peaking for it and those others taking part on their way to a tdf or giro peak. That said I don't see a rider on the level f boonen or canc in sky. I would be interested in seeing wiggo and Thomas in Roubaix though
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Does Boonen ride without mitts just to prove how much of a badass he is?
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    Right then.

    4 * P-R
    3 * FR
    3 * G-W

    Best cobbled classic rider ever?
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Art Vandelay
    Art Vandelay Posts: 1,982
    Vintage Paris-Roubaix
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can everyone now admit that Biggles-Holden is not some kind of cobbled classics god?

    Epic ride by Boonen. Magnificent.


    Was somebody claiming that?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can everyone now admit that Biggles-Holden is not some kind of cobbled classics god?

    Epic ride by Boonen. Magnificent.


    Was somebody claiming that?

    Quite a lot of people. He was even on the front of one of the mags as "the new Merckx"
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    macdaddy - At the most basic level, 4 vs 1....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,383
    At least Sky _tried_ to chase down Boonen. Everyone else in the group just sat on. Rabo had two guys in there, why did they not lend one of them to the chase?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    iainf72 wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Can everyone now admit that Biggles-Holden is not some kind of cobbled classics god?

    Epic ride by Boonen. Magnificent.


    Was somebody claiming that?

    Quite a lot of people. He was even on the front of one of the mags as "the new Merckx"


    Really? I never noticed :wink:

    Chapeau Guesdon.

    French guy winning a stewards call in France? Stunned
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    ddraver wrote:
    macdaddy - At the most basic level, 4 vs 1....
    I get 4 vs 1 I am not a newbie to this but I say again form beat all of that. If you have no rider able to keep with one how can you simply say 4 vs 1. There were 13 riders in te chase group, not one could catch him. No shame in that and I still don't understand the point. Tactics and numbers can't win on their own if physically it's not the same playing field on the day.
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    The only way Sky could have won today was if they'd signed Boonen.
    https://gibworth.mypixieset.com
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    disgruntledgoat wrote:

    French guy winning a stewards call in France? Stunned

    The photo looked clear enough to me.

    If there was any doubt I am sure that Ballan would have said something. :roll:
  • EKIMIKE
    EKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    About Sky.... Sorry, but when it's 50km to go in one of the cobbled classics the protected riders have to stand up and be counted. It's not about the team or domestique's any more. It's man vs. man, leader vs. leader.

    You cannot expect one of your lieutenants to go hauling back top guys. Even if you have three of them working on the front. Even if you don't have form you have show yourself and make the effort. Tell me, when it comes to Paris-Roubaix 2013 are Hayman and Stannard going to want to work for Boasson Hagen if they know he's just going to sit on the back? I think not. At least Flecha went for it (about three frickin times before that as well - lacking tactically).
    Canyon Endurace CF 2014 | Canyon Ultimate CF 2010
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Utter pwnage.

    It's quite special when a rider like Boonen feels they want to win it the hard and more glorious way.

    Must confess. Untill 20odd km to go I was totally bricking it.

    It's a unique quadruple - Harelbeke, G-W, Ronde, Roubaix - let alone the only rider to do the Ronde Roubaix double twice.

    And to think he should have really won Het Volk - but came 2nd....
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    And re-sky - why on earth didn't they start chain-ganging?
    _
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,383
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    You can't criticise Sky too much. EBH is always cooked over 200km, Flecha was never going to win with a damaged hand. I think Rabo sitting in with 2 riders deserve more scorn. All that said, Boonen is just awesome, only Fab could have stopped that.

    I agree. The continual Sky bashing on this forum is incredibly tedious. They tried to pull back Boonen, and sure they didn't have the legs. But at least they tried which is more than you can say about any of the other riders in the group.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    r0bh wrote:

    I agree. The continual Sky bashing on this forum is incredibly tedious. They tried to pull back Boonen, and sure they didn't have the legs. But at least they tried which is more than you can say about any of the other riders in the group.

    If you were in that group with Sky, would you have worked?

    If so, do you fancy a game of chess at some point?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    edited April 2012
    Not a newbie but you don't know/are forgetting that one saves 15-20% sitting behind them - well the guy on the front can work 15-20% harder than the single rider. What you re suggesting (in another way) is that Tom Boonen could ride in Individual Pursuit faster than Sky could a Team Pursuit ...come on!

    I said I'm a Sky fan but I'm disappointed today. I'm also a Schleck Fan and I was disappointed when they whined about the descent last TdF - being a fan does nt require constant approval/being naive (football excluded). They should have done better!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Merged the sky-are-rubbish thread into this one to save people getting 'spoiled'...
    _
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    edited April 2012
    So what you are saying is that group of 13 or even just sky alone had it all in the tank and just let boonen win? And I sound more ridiculous ;)
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    r0bh wrote:
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    You can't criticise Sky too much. EBH is always cooked over 200km, Flecha was never going to win with a damaged hand. I think Rabo sitting in with 2 riders deserve more scorn. All that said, Boonen is just awesome, only Fab could have stopped that.

    I agree. The continual Sky bashing on this forum is incredibly tedious. They tried to pull back Boonen, and sure they didn't have the legs. But at least they tried which is more than you can say about any of the other riders in the group.

    So in a group with 4 sky men, why should the other teams pull? It's the price of being a strong team.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Merged the sky-are-rubbish thread into this one to save people getting 'spoiled'...

    Well Played sir! :wink:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    thamacdaddy wrote:
    So what you are saying is that group of 13 or even just sky alone had it all in the tank and just let boonen win? And I sound more ridiculous ;)

    Clearly we are nt going to agree and I'm getting bored...I wonder who's gonna pull the breaks back for the sprinters in the GT's this year, it would appear the physics of cycling have changed...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,310
    r0bh wrote:
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    You can't criticise Sky too much. EBH is always cooked over 200km, Flecha was never going to win with a damaged hand. I think Rabo sitting in with 2 riders deserve more scorn. All that said, Boonen is just awesome, only Fab could have stopped that.

    I agree. The continual Sky bashing on this forum is incredibly tedious. They tried to pull back Boonen, and sure they didn't have the legs. But at least they tried which is more than you can say about any of the other riders in the group.


    With 4 in the group it was up to Sky to chase Boonen down.

    IIRC they had a similar numerical advantage at the Ronde and couldn't make it pay

    Milan San Remo was also a 'mare - Cav looked like me on a club run....


    Not a Sky basher but the Spring Classics have been a disaster.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Sky didn't help themselves by putting one man on the front for 10km, followed by another, followed by a little Flecha attack.

    Why weren't they taking turns - or even setting up a chain gang? Not on the cobbles, but on the flats?
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TailWindHome wrote:
    r0bh wrote:
    Art Vandelay wrote:
    You can't criticise Sky too much. EBH is always cooked over 200km, Flecha was never going to win with a damaged hand. I think Rabo sitting in with 2 riders deserve more scorn. All that said, Boonen is just awesome, only Fab could have stopped that.

    I agree. The continual Sky bashing on this forum is incredibly tedious. They tried to pull back Boonen, and sure they didn't have the legs. But at least they tried which is more than you can say about any of the other riders in the group.


    With 4 in the group it was up to Sky to chase Boonen down.

    IIRC they had a similar numerical advantage at the Ronde and couldn't make it pay

    Milan San Remo was also a 'mare - Cav looked like me on a club run....


    Not a Sky basher but the Spring Classics have been a disaster.

    Missing Thomas...?
    _
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Sky didn't help themselves by putting one man on the front for 10km, followed by another, followed by a little Flecha attack.

    Why weren't they taking turns - or even setting up a chain gang? Not on the cobbles, but on the flats?

    This.

    You cant faff around like that in a group with 4 riders, including your 2 leaders.

    It speaks of panic and a willingness to junk the plan as soon as a favourite moves, which is the opposite of how QS, the old CSC, Mapei etc would play it.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    edited April 2012
    ddraver wrote:
    thamacdaddy wrote:
    So what you are saying is that group of 13 or even just sky alone had it all in the tank and just let boonen win? And I sound more ridiculous ;)

    Clearly we are nt going to agree and I'm getting bored...I wonder who's gonna pull the breaks back for the sprinters in the GT's this year, it would appear the physics of cycling have changed...
    No need to be facetious about it. I don't agree because you are not making sense. I get your point I understand the physics of course but I fail to believe any team if they could win would purposefully not do so. I could understand more if people were criticising flecha and ebh personally for relying on only two riders to bury themselves. I would hazard a guess a call was made by the riders that they were struggling and hence a decision was made by the team. But like you I am guessing at why not all four tool equal turns on the front.

    I will happily bet you now the team sky train in the tour will bring back far more than they let get away.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Taylor Phinney 15th, hugely promising... Especially considering I hadn't heard his name all day.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent

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