STRIKE!
Comments
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Heh, trust Jezza to come out with something guaranteed to get the lefties frothing at the mouthThewaylander wrote:
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I do consider myself lucky, what I'm confused about is why you guys aren't supporting us, choosing to demonise the public sector instead, trying to convince us that we are workshy and greedy when the issue is the rising gap between rich and poor, and companies that set themselves up off-shore to avoid taxes despite running 90% of their trade here. Why aren't you standing up for the people's rights to fair pay and conditions (private and public), and why aren't you in outcry against the year on year rise in bonuses the bankers get?
Shocking that you point the finger at the public sector, and not at the causes of the recession. We didn't do it - neither did you, but we are turned against each other. The deficit can be made up by putting legislation in place that stops companies and bankers ripping society off... Oh wait, you can't remove a bankers bonus because they are entitled in their contract, and you can't change a contractual agreement - so we'll change the public sectors contract instead.
[must resist urge...]0 -
We think your greedy that's why.
Simply you want more out the system by a long way than you could ever possibly pay in. Over paid people exist in public as well as the private sector striking over pensions is not the way to raise awareness of that issue.
The whole approach that has been taken is irrisponsable causing wide spread problems for people including a large amount of parents which loses you alot of suppport.
And pay on contracts is open to negotian, there can be pay cuts in the private sector we've seen plenty recently so don't try that rubbish at the end. your using a very small sample to support your cases rather than the average or general.
And simply at the moment on AVERAGE public sector are paid more and will still get substantially better pensions than private sector people and you expect us to pay for your pension it comes across as simple greed, not a worry about wider issues of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
I haven't see an argument presented yet by a public sector person that just doesn't sound like personal greed.0 -
[Serious mode on]bluechair84 wrote:I do consider myself lucky, what I'm confused about is why you guys aren't supporting us, choosing to demonise the public sector instead, trying to convince us that we are workshy and greedy when the issue is the rising gap between rich and poor, and companies that set themselves up off-shore to avoid taxes despite running 90% of their trade here. Why aren't you standing up for the people's rights to fair pay and conditions (private and public), and why aren't you in outcry against the year on year rise in bonuses the bankers get?
Shocking that you point the finger at the public sector, and not at the causes of the recession. We didn't do it - neither did you, but we are turned against each other. The deficit can be made up by putting legislation in place that stops companies and bankers ripping society off... Oh wait, you can't remove a bankers bonus because they are entitled in their contract, and you can't change a contractual agreement - so we'll change the public sectors contract instead.
[must resist urge...]
I could go into quite a few reasons why the thing about offshore companies tax is b0ll0cks, but this is the CC and it's not the place for a lesson on how the UK tax system works
And I couldn't give a t0ss how much bankers or any other very well paid bods get in the private sector - fair play to them as I don't pay their wages - it's up to the shareholders to sort that out. But we are paying your wages, which is why it boils our p!ss when we keep getting asked for more and more money."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
bluechair84 wrote:Shocking that you point the finger at the public sector, and not at the causes of the recession. We didn't do it - neither did you, but we are turned against each other. The deficit can be made up by putting legislation in place that stops companies and bankers ripping society off... Oh wait, you can't remove a bankers bonus because they are entitled in their contract, and you can't change a contractual agreement - so we'll change the public sectors contract instead.
[must resist urge...]
i for one am not pointing the finger at Public Sector for the recession.
Reality is that the recession was coming anyway. People dont understand that a recession is a natural part of the business cycle, and whilst it usually results in people losing their jobs, the economy usually rights itself after a short period and we get back to growth. This time we have had a global financial crisis happening at the same time, which is making growth more difficult.
the deficit wasnt created by bankers, thats down to the previous Govt
the current rate of borrowing cant continue, so the Govt is having to cut back on some areas of Public Spending, which is why you guys are being targeted
i completely understand your frustration at having to pay more and work longer, but its not down to the bankers for that, thats down to the last govt mate. if the financial crisis hadnt happened, govt borrowing would still be sky high and these cuts would have come sooner or later
my point was that a lot of people are feeling the pinch right now, and by striking you are not making things better and you have no chance of making the govt change their minds. All you are doing is p*ssing off people who are already suffering.
lots of people havnet had a payrise in over 2 years, and you are belly-aching over a 1% rise. at least you are getting something.0 -
Well, we aren't really concerned about the 1% rise, I've certainly not talked about that with another teacher. I agree that the strike won't make a difference and that it's not actually helped our cause at all. As a post-thatcherite worker, this will be the first time I've properly experienced strikes and union's choices affecting my career. But let's be clear, we aren't asking for more, it's pensions that's the raw nerve - the teacher's pension pot is in a 2billion pound profit and with even just that, it can sustain pensions for something like 30 years, it's sutainable and was made affordable in 2007 for which the Gov has no figures to disprove. We aren't chasing pay rises - we are under pay freeze at the moment. We are concerned that taking pensions is the final thing that makes teaching worth while. I earn less than the national average, cannot put enough aside for a deposit let alone a private pension and the job isn't easy as many of you seem to think. Today, I was approached by senior staff to warn me that a female student who is on the protection register has taken a shine to me. There is a chance that this could lead to an 'allegation' because of a few things that have been said between Mom, daughter and senior staff at a meeting today. Even though I teach her, I have been told that, in my best interests, I am to be as far away from her and in sight of someone else around her at all times. If she makes an allegation, even if unfounded, it goes on my permanent record and I stand the chance of never being employed in the industry again... It's coincidence that it coincides with this debate and I'm not using it has emotional leverage but an example of what male teachers (with incredible moustaches admitedly (which I'm wearing with pride until Friday)) have to be constantly aware of. I'm privately bricking myself as of this afternoon.
I will concede that the thread has made me think much deeper about the troubles of private sector workers and certainly, with this being the first cause I've stiked (struck?) over, it might be my last. But the abslute nonsense spouted by some of you over the working conditions of teachers of course reminds me that, it's the CC, where lime-jockeys belong.0 -
DCR00 wrote:lots of people havnet had a payrise in over 2 years, and you are belly-aching over a 1% rise. at least you are getting something.The BBC wrote:Mr Osborne said a two-year cap would come into force from 2012, once the current two-year pay freeze had ended.
...in case you can't work it out, that would be the public sector belly-achers the two-year pay freeze applies to...0 -
bompington wrote:DCR00 wrote:lots of people havnet had a payrise in over 2 years, and you are belly-aching over a 1% rise. at least you are getting something.The BBC wrote:Mr Osborne said a two-year cap would come into force from 2012, once the current two-year pay freeze had ended.
...in case you can't work it out, that would be the public sector belly-achers the two-year pay freeze applies to...
why do public sector workers think they deserve a payrise at all?
im in the public sector, i am currently under a 2 year pay freeze
if i dont get any extra, i dont care, i am lucky to have a job at all, i certainly dont feel like i am owed a payrise or that i should get one just because i am in the public sector.
all of these workshy cunts are just doing it for a day off, lazy fuckers the lot of them.
anyone who dosnt like somethign about their job can choose to do something else or choose to stfu and make do.0 -
bluechair84 wrote:For dozens of reasons, half of us work in deplapidated buildings because the new gov cancelled the fund for new schools. We've been teaching out of the same buildings since the 60s and they can't cope much longer. The schools that got theirs are in really amazing environments now, we didn't complain then.
From a proffessional point of view unfortunately the state of the buildings is due to the majority of Principles or Headmasters involved having absolutely no idea about buildings, which of course they shouldn't need to (but they shouldn't hold the budgets or be able to spend them elsewhere). This should have been the job of the LEA to assist, but they were mostly hopeless too. (no fire alarms, no asbestos inspections, no legionella testing, teams of 20 caretakers all sitting around with their thumbs up their behinds whilst the schools fell apart are only some of it)
Having worked in Schools PFI, some of the decisions made were truly baffling too, with everybody demanding some shiiiite architect designed building that had the 'X factor'. In fact i used to physically cringe in meetings when this was mentioned (according to the various Schools Govenors). Then they'd wonder why we couldn't clean a window that's 50ft up with no access, or fix lights recessed into a 30 ft atrium without a tower. I could give details of 'themed planting', 'environmental energy initiatives', 'calm areas' etc, but they're just too depressing.Visit Clacton during the School holidays - it's like a never ending freak show.
Who are you calling inbred?0 -
bluechair84 wrote:Well, we aren't really concerned about the 1% rise, I've certainly not talked about that with another teacher. I agree that the strike won't make a difference and that it's not actually helped our cause at all. As a post-thatcherite worker, this will be the first time I've properly experienced strikes and union's choices affecting my career. But let's be clear, we aren't asking for more, it's pensions that's the raw nerve - the teacher's pension pot is in a 2billion pound profit and with even just that, it can sustain pensions for something like 30 years, it's sutainable and was made affordable in 2007 for which the Gov has no figures to disprove. We aren't chasing pay rises - we are under pay freeze at the moment. We are concerned that taking pensions is the final thing that makes teaching worth while. I earn less than the national average, cannot put enough aside for a deposit let alone a private pension and the job isn't easy as many of you seem to think. Today, I was approached by senior staff to warn me that a female student who is on the protection register has taken a shine to me. There is a chance that this could lead to an 'allegation' because of a few things that have been said between Mom, daughter and senior staff at a meeting today. Even though I teach her, I have been told that, in my best interests, I am to be as far away from her and in sight of someone else around her at all times. If she makes an allegation, even if unfounded, it goes on my permanent record and I stand the chance of never being employed in the industry again... It's coincidence that it coincides with this debate and I'm not using it has emotional leverage but an example of what male teachers (with incredible moustaches admitedly (which I'm wearing with pride until Friday)) have to be constantly aware of. I'm privately bricking myself as of this afternoon.
I will concede that the thread has made me think much deeper about the troubles of private sector workers and certainly, with this being the first cause I've stiked (struck?) over, it might be my last. But the abslute nonsense spouted by some of you over the working conditions of teachers of course reminds me that, it's the CC, where lime-jockeys belong.
Again you are using a minority example!
And to be honest it depends on the area you work in, i certainly know in the village i grew up in, being a teacher was a perfect pleasent and straight forward job. Not totally unlike certain jobs in the private sector.
For instance i'm just below national average loan, i don't own a house or have any for a deposit, but i manage to put away for a pension, And if i wanted more guess what i'd do... yup something else but i enjoy my roll and that means i stick at it as it provides me with what i need now.
Public sector needs to wake up and smell what it's like for the rest of the working world i'm afraid mate.0 -
here's a question:
will people keep the value of the pensions they have already accrued? and will the changes only affect the moneys to be accrued from the future after the changes (which are going to happen whther we like it or not) have been made?0 -
spongtastic wrote:Having worked in Schools PFI, some of the decisions made were truly baffling too, with everybody demanding some shiiiite architect designed building that had the 'X factor'.
A few years ago I worked in a school that did get it's new building. The corridors were narrower at one end as the architect saw less footfall there, so less space was needed. Unfortunately, schools regularly do fire drills and guess where the escapes were - in the narrow end of the corridor. Made for a terrific bottleneck. That was an appalling decision.0 -
mak3m wrote:lock this bull shoot up ffs
back to limes, chopped liver and redheads
no way man, this has been one of the best and most thought provoking threads in here since we learned how to count to potato.0 -
bluechair84 wrote:spongtastic wrote:Having worked in Schools PFI, some of the decisions made were truly baffling too, with everybody demanding some shiiiite architect designed building that had the 'X factor'.
A few years ago I worked in a school that did get it's new building. The corridors were narrower at one end as the architect saw less footfall there, so less space was needed. Unfortunately, schools regularly do fire drills and guess where the escapes were - in the narrow end of the corridor. Made for a terrific bottleneck. That was an appalling decision.
But great fun to watch........0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:mak3m wrote:lock this bull shoot up ffs
back to limes, chopped liver and redheads
no way man, this has been one of the best and most thought provoking threads in here since we learned how to count to potato.
Most definatelyPudseyp wrote:bluechair84 wrote:spongtastic wrote:Having worked in Schools PFI, some of the decisions made were truly baffling too, with everybody demanding some shiiiite architect designed building that had the 'X factor'.
A few years ago I worked in a school that did get it's new building. The corridors were narrower at one end as the architect saw less footfall there, so less space was needed. Unfortunately, schools regularly do fire drills and guess where the escapes were - in the narrow end of the corridor. Made for a terrific bottleneck. That was an appalling decision.
But great fun to watch........
Most definately again!0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:here's a question:
will people keep the value of the pensions they have already accrued? and will the changes only affect the moneys to be accrued from the future after the changes (which are going to happen whther we like it or not) have been made?
does anyone know the answer to this?0 -
I thought Clarkson's comment was pretty funny... apparently the roadies do not..
viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12814679
I was a bit disappointed with the picket lines at the Caerphilly Council offices... seemed they went home after everyone in our building (private sector) had got to work, and then came back again at 5pm.
What a half arsed protest! If they had the day off, then they should have to man a picket line by law! Skiving bastards!0 -
The Northern Monkey wrote:I thought Clarkson's comment was pretty funny... apparently the roadies do not..
viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12814679
fir play,most of the roadies are speaking sense there.
cant believe one of them still wants to kill james martin!! what a fucking knob!
i watched the clarkson comment, i suggest those who are up in arms over it should watch the full comment and the one before it.
he is asked what he thinks of the strikes and says thy are excellent, he then says that seeing as they were on the bbc he should counterbalance his own argument in order to remain impartial so threw out an over the top counter argument about excecuting the strikers in front of the familes.
it is being quoted(ish) as him saying "i would execute every mother fucking last one of you" as that fuels one argument when actually what he said was "the strikes are good (as i get around london easier) however seeing as this is the bbc, i should say something to adjust the balance of my opinion so ill say that i think strikers should be shot"
i might finally add that loads of hippy cunts seem to think it is ok for the strikers to voice their opinion, but its not ok for him because he earns too much money.0 -
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Apparently the shops were rammed full yesterday - seems a lot of the strikers were so outraged by the cuts that they decided to go shopping :roll: What a bunch of lazy ar$es (who have money to go shopping...)The Northern Monkey wrote:I thought Clarkson's comment was pretty funny... apparently the roadies do not..
viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12814679
I was a bit disappointed with the picket lines at the Caerphilly Council offices... seemed they went home after everyone in our building (private sector) had got to work, and then came back again at 5pm.
What a half arsed protest! If they had the day off, then they should have to man a picket line by law! Skiving bastards!"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Apparently the shops were rammed full yesterday - seems a lot of the strikers were so outraged by the cuts that they decided to go shopping :roll: What a bunch of lazy ar$es (who have money to go shopping...)The Northern Monkey wrote:I thought Clarkson's comment was pretty funny... apparently the roadies do not..
viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12814679
I was a bit disappointed with the picket lines at the Caerphilly Council offices... seemed they went home after everyone in our building (private sector) had got to work, and then came back again at 5pm.
What a half arsed protest! If they had the day off, then they should have to man a picket line by law! Skiving bastards!
yeah and according to clarkson, the roads were empty, surey they should have been just as busy as all of the moaning workshy skiving cunts should be picketing their workplaces to keep an eye on the "scabs"
cunts, the lot of them.
well, the lot of em except for my civvie mates who decided to strike for a jolly boys outing yesterday in manchester who i will tell to change the subject should the conversation turn to matters of the strikes when we are out and about over christmas. i dont want to have to tell them to stfu and then batter them as they get all arsey with me for disagreeing with the opinion they are allowed to have but no doubt they will not think i have the right to express as it is different to theirs. why do people who strike get so uppity about strikes?0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:sheepsteeth wrote:here's a question:
will people keep the value of the pensions they have already accrued? and will the changes only affect the moneys to be accrued from the future after the changes (which are going to happen whther we like it or not) have been made?
does anyone know the answer to this?
Basically the amount you get will not change, but the amount people are having to pay to get it will. I think! Teachers are being asked to put in more to get this amount - from 6.4% of salary to I think 8.8%. Though it could be as high as 9.6% by 2014
The police for example pay 9.5-11% already.0 -
from what i can gather, our pension where i work will change after 2015.
anything i have accrued up to that point is mine, its money in the bank. anything after that point will be calculated differently.
essentially, i will be getting less than i COULD have got, but im not actually getting less than i have already paid for. so by that logic, im not worse off yet and i could choose to get a different job if i dont like what is happening.
if this is the same case for everyone else in the public sector i would like to kick the living cunt fuck out of every single striker, one at a time, until i have either killed them all or my leg has worn down into a little nub (which is the exact opposite of my obvious of course)0 -
Gazlar wrote:bluechair84 wrote:Pudseyp wrote:supersonic wrote:How much do teachers get paid nowadays?
Too much...
Aye, teaching isn't a profession that should be filled by well qualified and motivated individuals, it should be reduced to below minimum wage and filled by immigrants who can barely speak a word of English.
Or to give them their proper title, Scots
forgot to mention earlier as i read this reply on my phone this afternoon. but i reckon that is the post of the thread. nice work.0 -
bluechair84 wrote:Aye, teaching isn't a profession that should be filled by well qualified and motivated individuals, it should be reduced to below minimum wage and filled by immigrants who can barely speak a word of English. The economy doens't need a decent education system, it just needs the crudcatcher.
Amen to that.bluechair84 wrote:what I'm confused about is why you guys aren't supporting us
Speaking for myself, it's your inability/unwillingness to recognise that you've been onto a real good thing for a long, long time and although the entire country is going through the wringer and we all need to share the burden, you seem to think it shouldn't apply to you, even though if you did agree to do your bit, you'd still be better off then most.0 -
Re. Clarksons comments. Have I missed something here? As far as I can gather, he was asked about his thoughts on the strikes, and responded by saying they were great for XYZ reasons, but to balance the argument for the BBC, they are all cnuts and should be shot. Is that it? Seriously?
If so, that is possibly the biggest over-reaction I have ever heard!
Re. The strikes in general. As far as I can gather, most of these poor, hard done by civil cervants who are SO concerned, just used the strike as an additional day off. Had a lay in, went shopping, went for a ride, that sort of thing. If you were so worried, why were you not out showing it?
Also, it's not 1976, you're not poor, hard done by miners being trampled by the govt. You've been riding the gravy train (yes, that's what I call my obvious) for years now.
And all those who are saying "I could be doing XYZ on more money if I wanted to, but I love my job". That's your answer then isn't it? If you're so worried about money, go do that other job. You're supposed to be grown-ups, sometimes, as grown-ups, we have to make choices like doing something we really really love, or doing something to pay the bills.
It just feels very much like a lot of the people involved seem to have some sort of feeling of entitlement to a well paid (compared to many equally qualified people) job, with bags and bags of holidays, and a massive pension to boot.
The whole situation just completely baffles me if I'm honest, I really don't see what all the fuss is about.0 -
+loads of non-striking potatos.Cat With No Tail wrote:Re. Clarksons comments. Have I missed something here? As far as I can gather, he was asked about his thoughts on the strikes, and responded by saying they were great for XYZ reasons, but to balance the argument for the BBC, they are all cnuts and should be shot. Is that it? Seriously?
If so, that is possibly the biggest over-reaction I have ever heard!
Re. The strikes in general. As far as I can gather, most of these poor, hard done by civil cervants who are SO concerned, just used the strike as an additional day off. Had a lay in, went shopping, went for a ride, that sort of thing. If you were so worried, why were you not out showing it?
Also, it's not 1976, you're not poor, hard done by miners being trampled by the govt. You've been riding the gravy train (yes, that's what I call my obvious) for years now.
And all those who are saying "I could be doing XYZ on more money if I wanted to, but I love my job". That's your answer then isn't it? If you're so worried about money, go do that other job. You're supposed to be grown-ups, sometimes, as grown-ups, we have to make choices like doing something we really really love, or doing something to pay the bills.
It just feels very much like a lot of the people involved seem to have some sort of feeling of entitlement to a well paid (compared to many equally qualified people) job, with bags and bags of holidays, and a massive pension to boot.
The whole situation just completely baffles me if I'm honest, I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
i couldn't agree more with you. people can't expect to get better pensions etc. come on now, we're in some of the worst financial problems in the UK(and the whole world tbh). as far as i can see, things are just going to get worse, so get used to it!0 -
Clarksons comments were ridiculosly overreacted to
Heres a novel idea for people who don't like the pension provisi on offer, don't pay into it, try and make as much as is on offer in other ways instead
Good luck0 -
Gazlar wrote:Clarksons comments were ridiculosly overreacted to
Heres a novel idea for people who don't like the pension provisi on offer, don't pay into it, try and make as much as is on offer in other ways instead
Good luck
so you are happy to pay more into the public sector pension scheme, thanks mate very public spirited of you.0
