STRIKE!
Comments
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bearfraser wrote:me think's we havnt seen anything YET , the BAST£$%Ds are are trying to give us 1% per year for two years after at least 2 years of NO pay rises . National Strike any one and a proper one this time
but they dont have to give us anything.
it is the shittest argument of the lot "aww man, it is like having a pay cut" shut up, shut the actual fuck up. fuck me fucking rigid, i can not abide being surrounded by a bunch of cunt fucks who dont know how fortunate they are to be employed and paid in the first place.
yes, we all want the money we thought we were getting, it doesnt exist, we have to go without some of it.
i cant strike and i absolutely wouldnt if i could, it is pissing, it is whining and it is moral fucking weakness. sack the fucking lot of em and employ any number of the the unemployed cunts who would happily do the work for less.0 -
1% a year? [Monty Python voice on]You lucky b@stard[/Monty Python voice off]. I think you'll find that the three quarters or more of the workforce who work in the private sector and who pay your wages won't be too keen on a general strike. Now get back to work you lazy $%"^&*bearfraser wrote:me think's we havnt seen anything YET , the BAST£$%Ds are are trying to give us 1% per year for two years after at least 2 years of NO pay rises . National Strike any one and a proper one this time"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:bearfraser wrote:me think's we havnt seen anything YET , the BAST£$%Ds are are trying to give us 1% per year for two years after at least 2 years of NO pay rises . National Strike any one and a proper one this time
but they dont have to give us anything.
it is the shittest argument of the lot "aww man, it is like having a pay cut" shut up, shut the actual fark up. fark me ******* rigid, i can not abide being surrounded by a bunch of **** fucks who dont know how fortunate they are to be employed and paid in the first place.
yes, we all want the money we thought we were getting, it doesnt exist, we have to go without some of it.
i cant strike and i absolutely wouldnt if i could, it is pissing, it is whining and it is moral ******* weakness. sack the ******* lot of em and employ any number of the the unemployed ***** who would happily do the work for less.
telling it like it is since 1974* - sheepsteeth
*this may not be his actual year of birth, but wither way he would still be telling it how it is!0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
1% a year? [Monty Python voice on]You lucky b@stard[/Monty Python voice off]. I think you'll find that the three quarters or more of the workforce who work in the private sector and who pay your wages won't be too keen on a general strike. Now get back to work you lazy $%"^&*bearfraser wrote:me think's we havnt seen anything YET , the BAST£$%Ds are are trying to give us 1% per year for two years after at least 2 years of NO pay rises . National Strike any one and a proper one this time
and most private sector workers i know, thats every defence company systems department in the last 4 years, has had a pay freeze, so not even 1% rise. quit your whinging!0 -
bearfraser wrote:me think's we havnt seen anything YET , the BAST£$%Ds are are trying to give us 1% per year for two years after at least 2 years of NO pay rises . National Strike any one and a proper one this time
This is at a time the economy is growing at a projected 0.7% if the eurozone gets itself sorted. Like I said, look at the Guys at Jag/Landrover for example who took the hit, kept people in jobs, pulled their finger out and helped turn its fortunes around. Yeah you can blame the bankers if you want, but how many people wouldn't take as much as they can get? But that money is gone, we've got a pot to share arund and thats the best we can afford. remember its your tax paying for this as well.
Plus people expect to have more, at least theres money coming in, tighten your belt and be grateful like everyone who has got a job0 -
Briggo wrote:
before or after burning?0 -
Gazlar wrote:Gazlar has got his serious hat on this evening.
As a private sector worker, I took my hit on my pensions 5 or so years ago and now pay around double what I did to get the same back. The public sector has an inate problem in the fact that not only does it have an increasing pensions burden, but over the last dozen or so years the level of staff became swollen to an unsustainable level. The public sector became too reliant on borrowed money, and the tax revenues that those jobs created on borrowed money created. Now the borrowed money is at too high a level to keep borrowing so we need to cut back, but in doing so then we lose the tax revenuesand push up the benefit bill, either way the country has been left with a sows ear to make a silk purse out of . My feeling is that the economic boom of the 90's and 00's was exacerbated by this and people landed jobs that we simply couldn't keep funding. These people keep spending, taking on debt which needs paying back at some point, and then the day comes that the money runs out, so what can you do, we cant afford to pay them, so they are made redundant and so the spiral continues, boom and bust quite simply.
What we have to do is tough it out, accept that for ten years we might not be as well off and roll our sleeves up. My favourite example of this is Jaguar Landrover employees a few years back who took pay and hours cuts as opposed to redundancies, got on with it, accepted the fiscal situation, now the company is profitable and investing in new plants and new staff. I'd hate to see anyone out of pocket, or on the dole, but in the situation we are in we have to cut our cloth accordingly and look to build back up steadily, and sensibly
Thankyou for listening
arrrrrgh resisting need for serious discussion in CC fail
so greedy fund managers who took un accpetable risks, companies playing freely with pension rules, borrowing unsustainably from pots of money invested in private pensions, thats your reasons for taking my investments and giving it to the governement so they can fritter it away. Its all a scam and the majority in this thread have fallen for it.
will me working an additional 2 years, paying more into a scheme that will get me less money save the tax payer any money, sadly not and if you think otherwise you are living in dreamland.
What they dont tell you, like any employer scheme the Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) the employer contributes towards the pension. In this case thats YOU, me and everyone else who pays tax.
My contribution goes up so does yours, its going to cost the tax payer MORE
the LGPS currently is the 4th largest investment fund in the world, ten year average it makes £4-5 billion pounds surplas per year. Granted last year it took a hit and only made a surplus of £3billion. if no further money was paid into the fund it would sustain itself for over 30 years.
Now this £3 billion is important, because nealry all of this surplass goes straight to government coffers and they cant afford to take that kind of hit. So they came up with a wheeze to make every single one of us pay more to help them recover their funds.
well done eveyone.
Jaguar Land Rover, staff took a short term hit, well done to them. It lasted less than a year. Investing in a new plant you say JLR really, nope again thats you again the investments in JLR are an open ended £75 million pound grant of tax payers money. to make a profitable company even more profitable, ok UK jobs but foreign profit going straight back to India
I work with JLR closely over their Gaydon and whitley plants, and a mate of mine is seconded to them from Tata at the moment. Hes just about to recieve his second 8% payrise of the year, with another coming in April. Dont get me started on the free cars they get as well.
So ive just lost 3 staff, we offered to work a day a week free to keep 1-2 positions open this request was refused, standing orders set by central government dont allow it. So ive lost staff lost money so next year im sure you will support the public sector getting a 16% pay rise.
Ahh but in private sector they reward staff from profits
ok i took over finances of my team last year, i inherited a loss of nearly £200k, after one year I reduced this loss to £13k, this year i was projecting a surplass of £58k, however this will be wiped out by three sets of redundancy payments so im probably going to end up with a £10-15k loss again. Forget all the private industry weeping on the news again I think this is grossly over exajerated. My work is linked to the development sector mainly housebuilding but also employment my forward plan for next year is looking well healthy, even my most pessimistic forecast shows a threefold increase in workload. We are struggeling at the moment due to lack of staff, next year I will need to take on agency staff which costs over double that of a fte member of staff.
So despite me turining around the finances I still lost 3 members of staff less than 12 months before a massive increase in work, can you make sense of that because i cant. I raised it constantly with a senior manager, i was eventually pulled to one side and told to "stop making a fecking fuss" its got nothing to do with balance sheets they wanted heads on sticks.
oh and my reward for turning my team to profit a 15% reduction in wages.
Go and work in the private sector i hear you cry. I might just end up doing that, and believe you me I would get a huge increase in salary. But beleive it or not some people actually work in public service to provide a public service. fook knows why as we get nothing but grief. I have seen waste on a huge scale and it still goes on dont get me wrong but to generalise everyone the same way is just blinkered.
Why are we all getting squeezed well the biggest group in this country recieving government payouts is not the public or civil service its the great unwashed on the dole who just got themselves a higher rate of inflation payrise, ahhhh warms the cockles of your heart.
TL:DR
meh just blame the public service its easier than opening your eyes having your own opinion
so endeth the counter rant0 -
Northwind wrote:DCR00 wrote:people seem to think that they are entitled to any number of things when they work, and to a certain extent that is true i.e. treated fairly, work in a safe environment etc, but at the end of the day its a commercial arrangement between you and the employer, so entitlement doesnt come into it
But that's kind of the point- you make an arrangement with your employer. They feel entitled because they've signed up for it and paid for it- kind of the definition of "entitled" tbh. This is a bit like saying you shouldn't feel entitled to your bike, just because you paid for it, after all it's just a commercial arrangement. If the shop comes back to you tomorrow and says "Actually we've decided you need to pay an extra £200 for that bike", you'd be delighted I'm sure.
Strange analogy, considering your bike doesn't pay you. (except in love)
The arrangement is that you get paid X, very rarely does the contract stipulate that you will always get a payrise/bonus etc.
Some pension schemes stipulate (defined benefit contract types, like final salaries) that you will get X if you have contributed Y and worked for Z period, however even that has a clause to be altered if necessary.0 -
Gazlar wrote:
Oh after, want it nice and warm don't they, it is coming up to winter afterall.0 -
mak3m wrote:Gazlar wrote:Gazlar has got his serious hat on this evening.
As a private sector worker, I took my hit on my pensions 5 or so years ago and now pay around double what I did to get the same back. The public sector has an inate problem in the fact that not only does it have an increasing pensions burden, but over the last dozen or so years the level of staff became swollen to an unsustainable level. The public sector became too reliant on borrowed money, and the tax revenues that those jobs created on borrowed money created. Now the borrowed money is at too high a level to keep borrowing so we need to cut back, but in doing so then we lose the tax revenuesand push up the benefit bill, either way the country has been left with a sows ear to make a silk purse out of . My feeling is that the economic boom of the 90's and 00's was exacerbated by this and people landed jobs that we simply couldn't keep funding. These people keep spending, taking on debt which needs paying back at some point, and then the day comes that the money runs out, so what can you do, we cant afford to pay them, so they are made redundant and so the spiral continues, boom and bust quite simply.
What we have to do is tough it out, accept that for ten years we might not be as well off and roll our sleeves up. My favourite example of this is Jaguar Landrover employees a few years back who took pay and hours cuts as opposed to redundancies, got on with it, accepted the fiscal situation, now the company is profitable and investing in new plants and new staff. I'd hate to see anyone out of pocket, or on the dole, but in the situation we are in we have to cut our cloth accordingly and look to build back up steadily, and sensibly
Thankyou for listening
arrrrrgh resisting need for serious discussion in CC fail
so greedy fund managers who took un accpetable risks, companies playing freely with pension rules, borrowing unsustainably from pots of money invested in private pensions, thats your reasons for taking my investments and giving it to the governement so they can fritter it away. Its all a scam and the majority in this thread have fallen for it.
will me working an additional 2 years, paying more into a scheme that will get me less money save the tax payer any money, sadly not and if you think otherwise you are living in dreamland.
What they dont tell you, like any employer scheme the Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) the employer contributes towards the pension. In this case thats YOU, me and everyone else who pays tax.
My contribution goes up so does yours, its going to cost the tax payer MORE
the LGPS currently is the 4th largest investment fund in the world, ten year average it makes £4-5 billion pounds surplas per year. Granted last year it took a hit and only made a surplus of £3billion. if no further money was paid into the fund it would sustain itself for over 30 years.
Now this £3 billion is important, because nealry all of this surplass goes straight to government coffers and they cant afford to take that kind of hit. So they came up with a wheeze to make every single one of us pay more to help them recover their funds.
well done eveyone.
Jaguar Land Rover, staff took a short term hit, well done to them. It lasted less than a year. Investing in a new plant you say JLR really, nope again thats you again the investments in JLR are an open ended £75 million pound grant of tax payers money. to make a profitable company even more profitable, ok UK jobs but foreign profit going straight back to India
I work with JLR closely over their Gaydon and whitley plants, and a mate of mine is seconded to them from Tata at the moment. Hes just about to recieve his second 8% payrise of the year, with another coming in April. Dont get me started on the free cars they get as well.
So ive just lost 3 staff, we offered to work a day a week free to keep 1-2 positions open this request was refused, standing orders set by central government dont allow it. So ive lost staff lost money so next year im sure you will support the public sector getting a 16% pay rise.
Ahh but in private sector they reward staff from profits
ok i took over finances of my team last year, i inherited a loss of nearly £200k, after one year I reduced this loss to £13k, this year i was projecting a surplass of £58k, however this will be wiped out by three sets of redundancy payments so im probably going to end up with a £10-15k loss again. Forget all the private industry weeping on the news again I think this is grossly over exajerated. My work is linked to the development sector mainly housebuilding but also employment my forward plan for next year is looking well healthy, even my most pessimistic forecast shows a threefold increase in workload. We are struggeling at the moment due to lack of staff, next year I will need to take on agency staff which costs over double that of a fte member of staff.
So despite me turining around the finances I still lost 3 members of staff less than 12 months before a massive increase in work, can you make sense of that because i cant. I raised it constantly with a senior manager, i was eventually pulled to one side and told to "stop making a fecking fuss" its got nothing to do with balance sheets they wanted heads on sticks.
oh and my reward for turning my team to profit a 15% reduction in wages.
Go and work in the private sector i hear you cry. I might just end up doing that, and believe you me I would get a huge increase in salary. But beleive it or not some people actually work in public service to provide a public service. fook knows why as we get nothing but grief. I have seen waste on a huge scale and it still goes on dont get me wrong but to generalise everyone the same way is just blinkered.
Why are we all getting squeezed well the biggest group in this country recieving government payouts is not the public or civil service its the great unwashed on the dole who just got themselves a higher rate of inflation payrise, ahhhh warms the cockles of your heart.
TL:DR
meh just blame the public service its easier than opening your eyes having your own opinion
so endeth the counter rant
either way, no amount of whining is going to do anything other than fuck me off.0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:fark me
So long as you have a wash first...0 -
mak3m wrote:Gazlar wrote:Gazlar has got his serious hat on this evening.
etc etc
arrrrrgh resisting need for serious discussion in CC fail
so greedy fund managers who took un accpetable risks, companies playing freely with pension rules, borrowing unsustainably from pots of money invested in private pensions, thats your reasons for taking my investments and giving it to the governement so they can fritter it away. Its all a scam and the majority in this thread have fallen for it.
will me working an additional 2 years, paying more into a scheme that will get me less money save the tax payer any money, sadly not and if you think otherwise you are living in dreamland.
What they dont tell you, like any employer scheme the Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) the employer contributes towards the pension. In this case thats YOU, me and everyone else who pays tax.
My contribution goes up so does yours, its going to cost the tax payer MORE
the LGPS currently is the 4th largest investment fund in the world, ten year average it makes £4-5 billion pounds surplas per year. Granted last year it took a hit and only made a surplus of £3billion. if no further money was paid into the fund it would sustain itself for over 30 years.
Now this £3 billion is important, because nealry all of this surplass goes straight to government coffers and they cant afford to take that kind of hit. So they came up with a wheeze to make every single one of us pay more to help them recover their funds.
well done eveyone.
Jaguar Land Rover, staff took a short term hit, well done to them. It lasted less than a year. Investing in a new plant you say JLR really, nope again thats you again the investments in JLR are an open ended £75 million pound grant of tax payers money. to make a profitable company even more profitable, ok UK jobs but foreign profit going straight back to India
I work with JLR closely over their Gaydon and whitley plants, and a mate of mine is seconded to them from Tata at the moment. Hes just about to recieve his second 8% payrise of the year, with another coming in April. Dont get me started on the free cars they get as well.
So ive just lost 3 staff, we offered to work a day a week free to keep 1-2 positions open this request was refused, standing orders set by central government dont allow it. So ive lost staff lost money so next year im sure you will support the public sector getting a 16% pay rise.
Ahh but in private sector they reward staff from profits
ok i took over finances of my team last year, i inherited a loss of nearly £200k, after one year I reduced this loss to £13k, this year i was projecting a surplass of £58k, however this will be wiped out by three sets of redundancy payments so im probably going to end up with a £10-15k loss again. Forget all the private industry weeping on the news again I think this is grossly over exajerated. My work is linked to the development sector mainly housebuilding but also employment my forward plan for next year is looking well healthy, even my most pessimistic forecast shows a threefold increase in workload. We are struggeling at the moment due to lack of staff, next year I will need to take on agency staff which costs over double that of a fte member of staff.
So despite me turining around the finances I still lost 3 members of staff less than 12 months before a massive increase in work, can you make sense of that because i cant. I raised it constantly with a senior manager, i was eventually pulled to one side and told to "stop making a fecking fuss" its got nothing to do with balance sheets they wanted heads on sticks.
oh and my reward for turning my team to profit a 15% reduction in wages.
Go and work in the private sector i hear you cry. I might just end up doing that, and believe you me I would get a huge increase in salary. But beleive it or not some people actually work in public service to provide a public service. fook knows why as we get nothing but grief. I have seen waste on a huge scale and it still goes on dont get me wrong but to generalise everyone the same way is just blinkered.
Why are we all getting squeezed well the biggest group in this country recieving government payouts is not the public or civil service its the great unwashed on the dole who just got themselves a higher rate of inflation payrise, ahhhh warms the cockles of your heart.
TL:DR
meh just blame the public service its easier than opening your eyes having your own opinion
so endeth the counter rant
Firstly, this is not a blaming of the public sector, this is a blaming of a fiscally irresponsible former government who created a bloated public sector, which essentially has papered over the cracks for ten or so years.
Firstly, fund managers who took unacceptable risks, there we go, took, money has gone, not coming back, this can't be spent.
second point, this is not about you saving the tax payer money, if it was all about saving the tax payer money, retire at 60, or 55, or 30, that way we pay less of your contribution. The changes are about reducing the burden on the pension fund long term, the fact that the fund has lost 2 billion out of its 5 billion last year is an indication of the way things are going in an increasingly bleak financial scenario, and the burden on the fund will increase as more people will be reliant on it.
JLR without the short term hit from staff would not be in the position that its in, and as far as I know, there was no guarantee that that position would be short term, it saw them through the roughest of patches and was quite simply an example of how co-operation and negotiation can work.
the rest of your analogy centres on one section of one department, fair enough, you personally are doing a good job and fair enough I agree that the long term unemployed are, in my eyes the bigger problem, but the fact remains, The last administration created a public sector monster on borrowed money, they admitted they left the country dry of money. Make no mistake whatever party would have come to power, these sorts of cuts would have to be made for the long term good, and to think this country wouldn't go down the pan is short sighted. Is it better to co-operate now, take a bit of a hit and work through it, or be forced to have your jobs and wages obliterated in the way of Greece.
No wage is a true reflection of your job, I think that Mrs G deserves a bigger wage than I get for the job she does, I reckon anyone who stands and gets shot at for his country deserves even more, but its not the case.0 -
bearfraser wrote:me think's we havnt seen anything YET , the BAST£$%Ds are are trying to give us 1% per year for two years after at least 2 years of NO pay rises . National Strike any one and a proper one this time
I know of several people who've been made redundant in the past year and are struggling to find work, any work.
I also know a few (family men) who work on a zero contract and have been cut back to 16 hours a week to share what little work there is between them.
These aren't especially well paid chaps, they usually work 60+ hours a week to make ends meet.
Am I upset that after your pay freeze you will get a lousy 1% for 2 years.
No.
Why ?
Because as much as you p!ss and moan about being hard done by, you're still better off than most.0 -
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i that the truth!
think my problem is that most (not all) public sector workers don't actual do any work...............................
and thats a FACT!0 -
Kaise wrote:i that the truth!
think my problem is that most (not all) public sector workers don't actual do any work...............................
and thats a FACT!
An almighty crudcatcher response
May the fairies come to your place and turn all your limes into pineapples when you least want them to. This occasion, should you need help identifying it, is the same occasion when Sheepsteeth would want them to turn into pineapples. So it doesn't apply to him naturally.0 -
Northwind wrote:DCR00 wrote:people seem to think that they are entitled to any number of things when they work, and to a certain extent that is true i.e. treated fairly, work in a safe environment etc, but at the end of the day its a commercial arrangement between you and the employer, so entitlement doesnt come into it
But that's kind of the point- you make an arrangement with your employer. They feel entitled because they've signed up for it and paid for it- kind of the definition of "entitled" tbh. This is a bit like saying you shouldn't feel entitled to your bike, just because you paid for it, after all it's just a commercial arrangement. If the shop comes back to you tomorrow and says "Actually we've decided you need to pay an extra £200 for that bike", you'd be delighted I'm sure.
The bike analogy only works if you were renting the bike....0 -
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on a serious note, this government and any other government are in it for themselves, they haven't got a fucking clue how to run an actual country. They are qualified accountants and the aren't social analysts, they are a bunch of sheepstwunts after the dollar.
i may be a bit brash saying that teachers don't deserve more but at the end of the day do you (public sector workers) look around your work place and see di*cks not doing any work, not adding any value?! if so they should get the boot.
my problem with all of it is i worked myself to where i am, and granted so have a lot of decent people in the PubSec but the ones that actual didn't are generally the ones moaning! the hard working ones generally get on with their job.0 -
*AL* wrote:
Am I upset that after your pay freeze you will get a lousy 1% for 2 years.
No.
Why ?
Because as much as you p!ss and moan about being hard done by, you're still better off than most.
well said.
we (the military (who start on considerably less than the 21k people were complaining about receiving earlier in the thread))had a pay freeze along with all of the public sector and as far as i was concerned, i didnt really mind. a payrise is a nice treat but i havent had a paycut so i cant complain (and no, by not having my wages indexed against the cost of living or whatever doesnt essentially mean im getting a paycut like most cunts in the public sector like to think)
whining about getting a payrise of 1% is even more sheepscuntish than complaining about no payrise at all would be.
fucking arseholes the lot of em.
i genuinely hold with the opinion of you dont have to like your job or the conditions you work under, you just have to do it and if you dont want to, fuck off and get another job. cunts.0 -
Northwind wrote:DCR00 wrote:The bike analogy only works if you were renting the bike....
No, it doesn't :? But if you like, you can run the analogy with a bike on finance.
of course it does
you are renting the bike from a shop for £10 per day, and the shop decides to up the price to £12 per day. You have the option to pay more or rent a bike from somewhere else.
or
you rent your ass to someone for £5 per day, but the renter decides that they only want to pay £3 for your sorry ass. You have the option of selling your ass for £3 to that renter, or selling your ass to someone else for potentially more.
the 2nd example, whilst about renting your ass, is basically the same as a standard job, where you dont rent your ass out. I turn up at work every day knowing that my company are going to pay me £X amount. If they decided that actually they want to pay me less (or make me pay more for my pension, reducing my take home pay) i can continue working for them, or work somewhere else
the finance analogy is an agreed contract for a fixed period of time, which cant be changed. If, when you started work somewhere, then you agreed to work there for a set amount of time for a fixed amount of money, then yeah, changing the goal posts along the way would be out of order, but nobody has an arrangement like that.
i dont sell my ass for a living0 -
DCR00 wrote:i dont sell my ass for a living
And how about if the pension / salary at your present occupation doesn't work out?0
