Strava.com - Put your money where your mouth is

notsoblue

pitchshifter wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

I was looking at Strava over the weekend and spotted someone with a 22mph average going up Dark Hill. How is that even possible?

I managed 22mph up Sawyers with that tailwind, not a chance on Dark hill though. Was it definitely done on the weekend?

Not this weekend. Can't find the specific segment I was looking at, but this one shows similar speeds: http://app.strava.com/segments/994057

Much easier to get up Sawyers hill at speed, incidentally my PB was last week and I went up at ~18mph and I wasn't really aiming for anything quick. Dark hill has no run up as you have to slow right down for the roundabout. My best average time up there is just over half that of the KOM. But then again, I'm no climber :P

Riding in a group isn't going to make you any quicker up there, surely. Its pretty sheltered, and negotiating the roundabout in a bunch is going to make things a bit slower if anything.

rick_chasey

Rick Chasey wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

No chance I'll ever do that.

Why not? Surely you are built to climb?

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference on a climb like dark hill.

Take a look at the guys who are best in the Tour of Flanders on the pro-scene, with all those short, sharp, steep hills.

They're all the big heffers.

It's about how much power you can put out over a short distance. My (lack of) weight is only really useful when it's much longer and higher.

Robert Millar made a similar (though better worded) argument on this very forum about half a year or so ago.

Here:
viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12761877

il_principe

Rick Chasey wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

No chance I'll ever do that.

Why not? Surely you are built to climb?

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference on a climb like dark hill.

Take a look at the guys who are best in the Tour of Flanders on the pro-scene, with all those short, sharp, steep hills.

They're all the big heffers.

It's about how much power you can put out over a short distance. My (lack of) weight is only really useful when it's much longer and higher.

Robert Millar made a similar (though better worded) argument on this very forum about half a year or so ago.

Piffle. JG is the best climber I've ever ridden with. He's not a big heffer, he's a skinny sod. He ripped my legs off on Dark Hill this weekend despite next to no training this year, whereas I've been training like mad. It's about Power/Weight ratio.

rick_chasey

Maybe JG's just more talented

Like I said, take a look at the link. Gottheteeshirt2 is Robert Millar.

rjsterry

True, but JG has both on his side; he's not *just* skinny.

cjcp

BigMat wrote:

Not done RP since registeredvwith Strava. Might head over one evening soon now that nights getting longer. Doubt I'll do much up Dark Hill though, cones towards end of lap for me so never exactly fresh!

Interesting, as I'm sort of the opposite. Too soon into the ride, and the effort nearly wipes me out. Yesterday's ride with JG and IP was a good example: first time up, with about six miles under the belt and I had to stop. Had it been dark, I would sat down against the tree and started to cry. Thereafter, I was ok. Weird.

Paul E

I want to have another good run at blackheath hill but the last time after an all out effort after just getting back on the bike I almost coughed up a lung.

mr_ribble

Rick Chasey wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

No chance I'll ever do that.

Why not? Surely you are built to climb?

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference on a climb like dark hill.

Take a look at the guys who are best in the Tour of Flanders on the pro-scene, with all those short, sharp, steep hills.

They're all the big heffers.

It's about how much power you can put out over a short distance. My (lack of) weight is only really useful when it's much longer and higher.

Robert Millar made a similar (though better worded) argument on this very forum about half a year or so ago.

Perhaps its more the case that the climbs are too short to provide an enough of a differential for those riders with higher power to weight ratios to gain an advantage, which the lighter riders then negate on the flat sections where these so called "heffers" dominate.

rick_chasey

gotheteeshirt2 wrote:

Let me explain .................to get up a short steep hill of say 15-20% the amount of power you can generate for up to two minutes is the key factor , as long as you are not overweight of course . As most pro/elite riders aren't carrying excess weight then it is going to be their power output over that short time which is going to decide if they can blast up the hill or not . Look at the Belgian classics for example , something like Tour of Flanders , it's the powerful riders who are competitive because they can produce the power to get over the steep hills with an effort similar to what they produce in a long sprint . The scrawny climbers aren't any use on these short steep hills because they can't generate those numbers , if the climb was 5km long then sure a climber would be in front but over 800m they dont produce the power to blast up that kind of climb . Maybe describing the ability to climb a short steep hill as needing strength was not accurate enough for the pedantic but basically that best describes the type of effort you'll need to be competitive on that terrain .
If you need an up to date example of rider types take Gesink versus Gilbert ,on equal form Gesink (the scrawny climber) isn't going worry Gilbert on any steep climb at Liege Bastogne or Amstel Gold Race because Gilbert has more explosive power/ strength . The power to weight ratios , 5, 6 or 7 watts per kilo , you are obssesing over are for power at threshold , what you can maintain for a long climb or roughly an hour but they aren't relative in a short explosive effort . If I make up some numbers for the Gilbert type rider and the Gesink climber it might be clearer.
Say Gilbert produces 750 watts for a 90 second effort and Gesinky can produce 450watts for the same time , the difference in short term power is more than enough to compensate for the difference in body weight . Gilbert blasts up the short hill and Gesink ends up in the chasing group at twenty seconds .
How you go about improving the steep hill ability isn't as simple as just losing weight or being skinny .

rick_chasey

Dark Hill's only a minute effort for me, and strava tells me I'm slow.

okgo

Oh well, I'm sure you have your strengths.

It's a crap hill as like someone said you come Roy's the roundabout and hit it at a slow speed.

mr_ribble

Dark Hill takes me an hour.. especially as I havent fixed the front mech yet so dont have a granny ring. 53 x 23 and a rpm of about 30.

mr_ribble

Hence...SPANKERS

rick_chasey

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Dark Hill takes me an hour.. especially as I havent fixed the front mech yet so dont have a granny ring. 53 x 23 and a rpm of about 30.

I see your 53x23 and raise you 42x16.

I'll stop now

okgo

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Hence...SPANKERS

Ballet school for the win.

mr_ribble

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Dark Hill takes me an hour.. especially as I havent fixed the front mech yet so dont have a granny ring. 53 x 23 and a rpm of about 30.

I see your 53x23 and raise you 42x16.

I'll stop now

Your making the assumption that I'm riding 700c. How do you know I'm dont have hand made 1400c

rick_chasey

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Dark Hill takes me an hour.. especially as I havent fixed the front mech yet so dont have a granny ring. 53 x 23 and a rpm of about 30.

I see your 53x23 and raise you 42x16.

I'll stop now

Your making the assumption that I'm riding 700c. How do you know I'm dont have hand made 1400c

Because you ride a ribble? :P

OK, I'll really stop now

mr_ribble

Ribble Cycles where established in 1897. Bikes had big wheels back then

And before the pedants start .. yes actually the saftey bicycle was invented in the 1880s

cjcp

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Hence...SPANKERS

Eh?

rjsterry

cjcp wrote:

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Hence...SPANKERS

Eh?

Hill Wood?

bigmat

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

No chance I'll ever do that.

Why not? Surely you are built to climb?

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference on a climb like dark hill.

Take a look at the guys who are best in the Tour of Flanders on the pro-scene, with all those short, sharp, steep hills.

They're all the big heffers.

It's about how much power you can put out over a short distance. My (lack of) weight is only really useful when it's much longer and higher.

Robert Millar made a similar (though better worded) argument on this very forum about half a year or so ago.

Piffle. JG is the best climber I've ever ridden with. He's not a big heffer, he's a skinny sod. He ripped my legs off on Dark Hill this weekend despite next to no training this year, whereas I've been training like mad. It's about Power/Weight ratio.

I think I'm with Rick (and RM) on this one. Most of the short, sharp climbs in London and the South East suit what I would term "power" riders, rather than skinny climbers. Whilst it will always help to be as light as possible, over the kind of distances involved power will always be the trump card. To demonstrate the point, who do I think would be the fastest pro cyclist up Dark Hill? Could be a Gilbert / Valverde type, more likely though a Hushovd / Boonen type. Certainly not a Schleck / Contador type. As for Jon Ginge, his body type probably isn't the decisive factor in him being so fast up there, he's just quick! I imagine the differential would be greater on a longer climb where power to weight really kicks in.

okgo

Ed-f is about as quick as they come on strava in the Surrey hills, he's not really big or small, some people just do hills well.

And although they are short power climbs a bigger rider will find his larger muscles and weight will bring the lactic quicker than someone smaller!

mr_ribble

cjcp wrote:

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Hence...SPANKERS

Eh?

Eh? http://app.strava.com/rides/5570150#106105825

You have the QOM as well

jzed

Ed_f weighs about 65 kilos and is about as thin as one of my legs.

Wrath Rob

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Dark Hill takes me an hour.. especially as I havent fixed the front mech yet so dont have a granny ring. 53 x 23 and a rpm of about 30.

I see your 53x23 and raise you 42x16.

I'll stop now

Crawled up it on 48x16 on Friday. Possibly my slowest ever ascent. Almost died. Got scalped by a sloth. Have now taken the Comtat out of retirement to prevent future occurrences of that.

rick_chasey

Wrath Rob wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Mr_Ribble wrote:

Dark Hill takes me an hour.. especially as I havent fixed the front mech yet so dont have a granny ring. 53 x 23 and a rpm of about 30.

I see your 53x23 and raise you 42x16.

I'll stop now

Crawled up it on 48x16 on Friday. Possibly my slowest ever ascent. Almost died. Got scalped by a sloth. Have now taken the Comtat out of retirement to prevent future occurrences of that.

You get used to it after a while.

I've never cycled up it on anything else.

pitchshifter

Face lights up when strava tells me I got a KOM, only to find I have to share that glory with CJ! :twisted:

Although with that wind I can't see either of them standing past tonight.

okgo

JZed wrote:

Ed_f weighs about 65 kilos and is about as thin as one of my legs.

He isn't that small I don't think. There's certainly smaller!

Blonde Cyclist

Had my first "no achievement" ride today. I know it was just because I was actually being good and treating it as a recovery, but still feels oddly hollow...

jzed

68k per the 3 lap challenge

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40007&t=12749276&start=320