The Footie Thread - may contain spoilers
Comments
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FoldingJoe wrote:Mignolet totally at fault for the goal (wee-wee poor positioning) - can't wait until Gordon is back.
Hey, what happened to my alliteration?
Little boy to Obama: "My Dad says that you read all our emails"
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Il Principe wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:TailWindHome wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:We will have our glory again of that we can be sure.
Do you have the patience to wait as long as the Man U fans did or as long as the Liverpool fans have been?
Yes I would wait that long and longer still. There are a small but vocal group of "fans" that have been so spoiled by Arsenal's recent success and attractive, promising style of football that have seemingly forgotten where we've come from. I'm not one of them.
Maybe they're f*cked off because Wenger is being stupidly stubborn over this. Arsenal's success came when they had brawn as well as flair - so the likes of Campbell and Viera, along with the creativity of Henry, Bergkamp, Pires etc. It doesn't take a genius to look at the current side, and the league, to realise that you need both to succeed in this league.
The Arsenal fans I know would never boo Wenger (anyone that does isn't a proper fan). My boss has been going since he was a kid, as has his Dad who is in his 70's now and had a season ticket since his 20's. He's seen it all, and he agrees that they need a bit of brawn. I don't understand why Wenger doesn't seem/want to grasp this.
In Wenger I trust.
Wenger came to Arsenal with an understanding that the league demands physical players. He also bought with him a belief that players have to be athletic. Djorou, Song, Sagna, Koncielny, Gibbs, Vermalen are just that. I'd also argue that Arshavin is tougher than his height suggests and Gervinho, Nasri, Wilshire and Ramsey are no wallflowers in the physical department either.
What we need is a commanding centre back a commanding central midfielder and/or a commanding striker. I'm of the thought that those players are very rarely bought, they are made. (as in they're bought but become those types of players with time and a developing love for the club. No amount of moneycan guarantee you're going to buy that type of player. A guy who will die on the pitch for you because he loves the badge.
The team is good enough, we need cover. But with a commanding player like that. A leader, I could see the current squad going on to great things.
Someone will emerge!Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:What we need is a commanding centre back a commanding central midfielder and/or a commanding striker. I'm of the thought that those players are very rarely bought, they are made. (as in they're bought but become those types of players with time and a developing love for the club. No amount of moneycan guarantee you're going to buy that type of player. A guy who will die on the pitch for you because he loves the badge.
Will the Arsenal players 'die' for Wenger?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:What we need is a commanding centre back a commanding central midfielder and/or a commanding striker. I'm of the thought that those players are very rarely bought, they are made. (as in they're bought but become those types of players with time and a developing love for the club. No amount of moneycan guarantee you're going to buy that type of player. A guy who will die on the pitch for you because he loves the badge.
The team is good enough, we need cover. But with a commanding player like that. A leader, I could see the current squad going on to great things.
Someone will emerge!
What you need is Emmanuel Pogatetz.
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Emmanual Pogatetz allows to live.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:What we need is a commanding centre back a commanding central midfielder and/or a commanding striker. I'm of the thought that those players are very rarely bought, they are made. (as in they're bought but become those types of players with time and a developing love for the club. No amount of moneycan guarantee you're going to buy that type of player. A guy who will die on the pitch for you because he loves the badge.
Will the Arsenal players 'die' for Wenger?
Time will tell.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
FoldingJoe wrote:**pokes his head onto thread to see if Asprilla is around**
...crap, crap, crap!!!
We looked lgood for the win for about 20 minutes in the first half, and too be honest I still don't think we deserved to lose (although the Larsson hand ball was a clear sending off!!)
Mignolet totally at fault for the goal (wee-wee poor positioning) - can't wait until Gordon is back.
Must do better, especially against the Mags....
Coo-eey!
Was an ok game, more skill, passing and dribbling on offer than in most recent meetings between us. Sunnerlan dominated for the first half without really hitting the target but then didn't really come out in the second half (possibly tired) and our 5 man midfield began to exert some authority.
I honestly think it's the weight of expectation that undoes Sunderland in these scenarios (it's not often a Newcastle fan gets to say that about someone else) and once you'd poured everything to getting an early goal then heads began to drop.
Still, look on the bright side; we took 4 points off you last season and you still finished above us.Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
Sun - Cervelo R3
Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX0 -
All this chat about Wenger being amazing is all well and fine, but surely a team that is constantly young and developing should eventually, if the plan is to work, become experienced and good?
Wenger seems to let players go when they hit 25 at the moment, and replaces them with 17-18 yr olds.
I'm a fan of youth - I'm pleased to see United's team this year plenty younger than last years - but they also have a blend of experience and age.
This is partly a vicious circle. Since Arsenal haven't won in a while, a young player who becomes exceptionally good, which happens reasonably regularly at Arsenal, is tempted away by the prospects of a) an uncapped wage and b) (importantly) trophies.
Unless Arsenal start winning proper trophies at least onces or twice every 4 years or so, Arsenal will become the world's first and best feeder team, which is not what they're about.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:TailWindHome wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:What we need is a commanding centre back a commanding central midfielder and/or a commanding striker. I'm of the thought that those players are very rarely bought, they are made. (as in they're bought but become those types of players with time and a developing love for the club. No amount of moneycan guarantee you're going to buy that type of player. A guy who will die on the pitch for you because he loves the badge.
Will the Arsenal players 'die' for Wenger?
Time will tell.
Has it not already?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Asprilla wrote:Still, look on the bright side; we took 4 points off you last season and you still finished above us.
I prefer to look at it as though we stole 2 points off you!!
Little boy to Obama: "My Dad says that you read all our emails"
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There are 5 requirements to a football managers role. To be a great manager you need to excel in all 5.
1 Understand the game - know what tactics are required to bring sucess (ie. win)
2 Indentify the resources required - what players to you need to buy/sell or develop
3 Be able to explain your plan to the players.
4 Moitivate your players to be 100% committed to the plan
Must important is number 5
5 When it all goes wrong know what to change.
Mourinho and Ferguson score very highly against all these criteria
Ferguson also has proven his ability to meet the rare 6th criteria.
6 Do it all over again“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I think this might go to explaining a little of what's happening at Arsenal
http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s378/st170548.htm
or could just be Wengers mate...Purveyor of sonic doom
Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
Fixed Pista- FCN 5
Beared Bromptonite - FCN 140 -
TailWindHome wrote:There are 5 requirements to a football managers role. To be a great manager you need to excel in all 5.
1 Understand the game - know what tactics are required to bring sucess (ie. win)
2 Indentify the resources required - what players to you need to buy/sell or develop
3 Be able to explain your plan to the players.
4 Moitivate your players to be 100% committed to the plan
Must important is number 5
5 When it all goes wrong know what to change.
Mourinho and Ferguson score very highly against all these criteria
Ferguson also has proven his ability to meet the rare 6th criteria.
6 Do it all over again
[The mother of all rants]
While I agree with you I don't like, cannot abide and will not tolerate all this anti Arsene Wenger rhetoric [exclamation mark] - spelt and placed in hard brackets, because no emoticon or punctuation symbol could truly emphasise my feelings on this matter.
Mourinho is great, to liken him, to compare him or even mention him alongside Ferguson is foolhardy. Mourinho has yet to prove that he can handle and bring through youngsters, manage difficult/unhappy players and or develop a club like Ferguson or Wenger. Yes he is superb with big players, getting them together and making those already seasoned professionals work as a team. Yes he can win and I'm not deracting from the man but his career is too new and his wins too formulaic to loft him up so high.
There are weaknesses there. Mourinho has yet to build greatness from nothing (unless it is with a Platinum coated spoon and the Inter Milan Team was pretty decent/Italian Footabll ain't what it used to be). Mourinho has yet to establish a selfless legacy or a dynasty except for his own.
Moving on:
Arsene Wenger is a great superb Manager who has been in this game for years. If not for Ferguson, Wenger would be regarded as the greatest Manager in the history of the Premier League. With his brand of football and business management not replicated anywhere else.
Ferguson is a rarity, a one off. If he had a foriegn name like "Josexo Jaunzalelz Lofredo" he would be Deified to the extremes of Pele and Maradona. Nothing less would or could do. While I spit upon all Mancs globally Ferguson is to Management what the Maradona, Pele, Van Basten and Archie Gemmell are for players.
Apart from the immediate win Mourinho brings and leaves very few positives with a club.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Whilst Wenger is unquestionably a great manager, I can't help feeling he's in a rut that he's stuggling to get out of. His head is down and it has to negatively affect the players.
Compare and contrast with this
Chin up Wenger.0 -
Is Wilshere not that talent?
I think he showed against Barca last year that he is just as good as Xavi and Iniesta. and he is clearly the only player in the Arsenal team who can say that.0 -
Joelsim wrote:Is Wilshere not that talent?
I think he showed against Barca last year that he is just as good as Xavi and Iniesta. and he is clearly the only player in the Arsenal team who can say that.
As good as Xavi and Iniesta? Drinking on a Monday night are we? He has had one decent season, he obviously is very talented but I think you may be getting carried away in thinking at this moment he is as good as those two. 'One swallow doesn't make a summer' and all that. 0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:TailWindHome wrote:There are 5 requirements to a football managers role. To be a great manager you need to excel in all 5.
1 Understand the game - know what tactics are required to bring sucess (ie. win)
2 Indentify the resources required - what players to you need to buy/sell or develop
3 Be able to explain your plan to the players.
4 Moitivate your players to be 100% committed to the plan
Must important is number 5
5 When it all goes wrong know what to change.
Mourinho and Ferguson score very highly against all these criteria
Ferguson also has proven his ability to meet the rare 6th criteria.
6 Do it all over again
[The mother of all rants]
While I agree with you I don't like, cannot abide and will not tolerate all this anti Arsene Wenger rhetoric [exclamation mark] - spelt and placed in hard brackets, because no emoticon or punctuation symbol could truly emphasise my feelings on this matter.
Mourinho is great, to liken him, to compare him or even mention him alongside Ferguson is foolhardy. Mourinho has yet to prove that he can handle and bring through youngsters, manage difficult/unhappy players and or develop a club like Ferguson or Wenger. Yes he is superb with big players, getting them together and making those already seasoned professionals work as a team. Yes he can win and I'm not deracting from the man but his career is too new and his wins too formulaic to loft him up so high.
There are weaknesses there. Mourinho has yet to build greatness from nothing (unless it is with a Platinum coated spoon and the Inter Milan Team was pretty decent/Italian Footabll ain't what it used to be). Mourinho has yet to establish a selfless legacy or a dynasty except for his own.
Moving on:
Arsene Wenger is a great superb Manager who has been in this game for years. If not for Ferguson, Wenger would be regarded as the greatest Manager in the history of the Premier League. With his brand of football and business management not replicated anywhere else.
Ferguson is a rarity, a one off. If he had a foriegn name like "Josexo Jaunzalelz Lofredo" he would be Deified to the extremes of Pele and Maradona. Nothing less would or could do. While I spit upon all Mancs globally Ferguson is to Management what the Maradona, Pele, Van Basten and Archie Gemmell are for players.
Apart from the immediate win Mourinho brings and leaves very few positives with a club.
Yeah, that Mourinho, leaves nothing behind him but trophies.
On other business, if I were English or a Manc I'd be delighted about how good Rooney looks this year.
Also I'm going to stick my neck out and call 25 goals for Torres this year..“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
110%, surely?TailWindHome wrote:4 Moitivate your players to be 100% committed to the plan0 -
TailWindHome wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:TailWindHome wrote:There are 5 requirements to a football managers role. To be a great manager you need to excel in all 5.
1 Understand the game - know what tactics are required to bring sucess (ie. win)
2 Indentify the resources required - what players to you need to buy/sell or develop
3 Be able to explain your plan to the players.
4 Moitivate your players to be 100% committed to the plan
Must important is number 5
5 When it all goes wrong know what to change.
Mourinho and Ferguson score very highly against all these criteria
Ferguson also has proven his ability to meet the rare 6th criteria.
6 Do it all over again
[The mother of all rants]
While I agree with you I don't like, cannot abide and will not tolerate all this anti Arsene Wenger rhetoric [exclamation mark] - spelt and placed in hard brackets, because no emoticon or punctuation symbol could truly emphasise my feelings on this matter.
Mourinho is great, to liken him, to compare him or even mention him alongside Ferguson is foolhardy. Mourinho has yet to prove that he can handle and bring through youngsters, manage difficult/unhappy players and or develop a club like Ferguson or Wenger. Yes he is superb with big players, getting them together and making those already seasoned professionals work as a team. Yes he can win and I'm not deracting from the man but his career is too new and his wins too formulaic to loft him up so high.
There are weaknesses there. Mourinho has yet to build greatness from nothing (unless it is with a Platinum coated spoon and the Inter Milan Team was pretty decent/Italian Footabll ain't what it used to be). Mourinho has yet to establish a selfless legacy or a dynasty except for his own.
Moving on:
Arsene Wenger is a great superb Manager who has been in this game for years. If not for Ferguson, Wenger would be regarded as the greatest Manager in the history of the Premier League. With his brand of football and business management not replicated anywhere else.
Ferguson is a rarity, a one off. If he had a foriegn name like "Josexo Jaunzalelz Lofredo" he would be Deified to the extremes of Pele and Maradona. Nothing less would or could do. While I spit upon all Mancs globally Ferguson is to Management what the Maradona, Pele, Van Basten and Archie Gemmell are for players.
Apart from the immediate win Mourinho brings and leaves very few positives with a club.
Yeah, that Mourinho, leaves nothing behind him but trophies.
Bullcrap! The immediate success is always overshadowed by the lasting legacy.
Mourinho will bring immediate success, that's great but 5 years down the line it becomes a memory of one maybe two great seasons. Nothing lasting is really built upon that immediate success. He wins he leaves.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Yeah, that Mourinho, leaves nothing behind him but trophies.
Bullcrap! The immediate success is always overshadowed by the lasting legacy.
Mourinho will bring immediate success, that's great but 5 years down the line it becomes a memory of one maybe two great seasons. Nothing lasting is really built upon that immediate success. He wins he leaves.
Several pages back you outlined Wenger's legacy......it was a couple of good seasons and nothing for 6 years
Avram Grant's journey to the Champions League final, Ancelloti's double and Gus' FA Cup (and the robbed semi against Barca) were Mourinho's legacy. Meanwhile he delivered another Champions League (and treble) in Italy. Let's not forget the sucess he brought to Porto (another Champions League) and the stunning 8 YEAR UNBEATEN HOME LEAGUE RECORD across 4 leagues.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Mourinho will bring immediate success, that's great but 5 years down the line it becomes a memory of one maybe two great seasons. Nothing lasting is really built upon that immediate success. He wins he leaves.
Whereas Wenger and Ferguson keep their jobs for decades. The job you'd do in a secure environment where you can plan for a future is quite different from that you'd do if you knew the owner/president would bankroll you for a couple of years and then get bored and get rid of you.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:TailWindHome wrote:Yeah, that Mourinho, leaves nothing behind him but trophies.
Bullcrap! The immediate success is always overshadowed by the lasting legacy.
Mourinho will bring immediate success, that's great but 5 years down the line it becomes a memory of one maybe two great seasons. Nothing lasting is really built upon that immediate success. He wins he leaves.
Several pages back you outlined Wenger's legacy......it was a couple of good seasons.
Overrated.
Must be another Universe your living in. Damn Internet, breaking the barriers of reality...Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Mourinho will bring immediate success, that's great but 5 years down the line it becomes a memory of one maybe two great seasons. Nothing lasting is really built upon that immediate success. He wins he leaves.
Whereas Wenger and Ferguson keep their jobs for decades. The job you'd do in a secure environment where you can plan for a future is quite different from that you'd do if you knew the owner/president would bankroll you for a couple of years and then get bored and get rid of you.
Indeed, Mourinho didn't leave, he was moved on by an owner who wanted to win and play pretty football. Winning wasn't enough.
As Arsenal are finding out, pretty football isn't enough either.0 -
Several pages back you outlined Wenger's legacy......it was a couple of good seasons and nothing for 6 years
Avram Grant's journey to the Champions League final, Ancelloti's double and Gus' FA Cup (and the robbed semi against Barca) were Mourinho's legacy. Meanwhile he delivered another Champions League (and treble) in Italy. Let's not forget the sucess he brought to Porto (another Champions League) and the stunning 8 YEAR UNBEATEN HOME LEAGUE RECORD across 4 leagues.
Arsene Wenger was managing Arsenal in 1996, back then I was in year 9/10 of my primary school. Mobile phones were new, DVDs were a new technology, camera's had film, the Internet was dialed through your telephone/modem and tape for music and images was still the preferred choice.
It weren't just a couple of good season.
All the success that Chelesea have had has nothing to do with Mourinho's legacy. As I said before, his success is his own. When you talk about Arsene you're talking about Arsenal. When you talk about Ferguson you're talking about Man Utd. Talk about Mourinho you're talking about Mourinho.
Clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona would suit him.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DDD, are you sad that Dario Gradi never got the Arsenal job?0
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Nope because he probably would have never signed Thierry Henry and with it all the lovely memories of the powerful elegant graceful Henry caress the ball with the sweet perfection of a footballing God. (No Homo)Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Well Nasri's going/gone.
How much do Championship season tickets go for. Reckon I'll be in for a shout next seasonFood Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Getting bored of this discussion now.
Much of what I've posted above was merely intended to wind DDD up a bit. However there is a kernel of truth to it. Personally I don't think Wenger has been the same since 24th October 2004, while he is a great manager with a proven track record I can't help thinking he has stayed in the job too long and risks undermining his 'legacy', really think it is time for him to make the inevitable step into the French National role and for new blood to come in.
....
As a Chelsea fan I'm really optimistic about this season. I'm loving the new youthful signings and have high hopes that Torres is going to come good. I think we may have a gem in AVB.
One thing I'd love to see is Sturridge getting a run in the team.
So much so that the Sky subscription is being reinstated.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
At this juncture I don't think I disagree with you TWH, I don't think Wenger is the problem I think it is the board. Still, he probably should have jumped ship when David Dein was sacked as it was a clear indication that the Board wanted something different to Wenger's vision.
Upsetting really.
I'm gonna have a cry about Nasri.... be back later.
I'll never forgive the Arsenal Board for this. They should be burned, then pee'd on and then burned again only this time to completion.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Off to see the mighty Black Cats get dumped out of the Carling Cup tonight!!
Little boy to Obama: "My Dad says that you read all our emails"
Obama to little boy: "He's not your real Dad"
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