So it's all kicked off in Totenham !!!

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

The police really are damned if they do and damned if they don't. On the back of criticism over heavy handed tactics at the student demos and G8 they are now getting criticised my the media for being too soft in their early responses at Tottenham. Add to that the mayor and PM getting criticised for being on holiday (in the middle of the main holiday season) as if they could somehow have predicted these events. Surely even politicians deserve a break at some point and no-one knows when the next crisis is going to occur.

I think given the Euro-crisis and devaluation of US bonds, Cameron and indeed any other European leader on holiday isn't doing much holidaying, and is doing quite a bit of state-craft.

Pross

Yep, as one MP pointed out on the radio this morning (referring to Osborne). His 'holiday' has been comprising various conference calls, she also made a very good point about how few people were in the BBC studio compared to usual. The media don't seem to realise that being out of the country is not the same as not working. Ironic considering journolists have been working all over the world and getting stories back to their head office for decades.

lifeform

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Richard North on the EU Referendum blog has a few interesting observations about this.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

Christ, I'm amazed he can operate a keyboard with the weight of those chips bearing down on his shoulders.

MattC59

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Richard North on the EU Referendum blog has a few interesting observations about this.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

Interesting !??!
The man's an idiot, with as previously mentioned, half a sack of spuds on his shoulder !!

verylonglegs

lifeform wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Richard North on the EU Referendum blog has a few interesting observations about this.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

Christ, I'm amazed he can operate a keyboard with the weight of those chips bearing down on his shoulders.

Wow, talk about bitter and twisted.

lifeform

verylonglegs wrote:

lifeform wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Richard North on the EU Referendum blog has a few interesting observations about this.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

Christ, I'm amazed he can operate a keyboard with the weight of those chips bearing down on his shoulders.

Wow, talk about bitter and twisted.

Who me, or Richard North?

verylonglegs

lifeform wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

lifeform wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Richard North on the EU Referendum blog has a few interesting observations about this.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

Christ, I'm amazed he can operate a keyboard with the weight of those chips bearing down on his shoulders.

Wow, talk about bitter and twisted.

Who me, or Richard North?

Sorry, Mr North. He sounds like a real fun guy to spend some time with.

ollyridesfirst

waltho bum gravy wrote:

lifeform wrote:

Of course, nobody would dare to question what, exactly, these areas are deprived of when they have access to the same basic services as the rest of us.

like i said. head in the sand.

Waltho....are you saying that they don't have access to certain basic services?

As has been said, this is a group of unemployed/unemployable youths causing havoc simply for the sake that they are bored. The shooting of an armed man is simply an excuse that they will play on for as long as possible.

Personally i'd get the water canon and rubber bullets out and go in hard....then again, we wouldn't want to infringe on the criminals human rights would we?

MattC59

Turns out one of the places that was looted was Halfords !!!
Look out for a lot of scumbags riding Boardmans and shiney new BSOs !!!

Who knows, there may well be an influx of new members wanting to know the suitability of their BSO for riding Ventoux ?

KarynPebs

Police are too afraid to put a step out of place, every move that is made at incidents like this will be videoed, either by the press or on phone cameras. One hair out of place and the police are vilified in the national press.

Don't get me wrong, the police have to be monitored. But until people are happy to accept that if you are caught breaking the law then there are consequences then nothing will change. You wave a gun in public, you'd better be prepared to get shot no matter how 'non-violent' your intentions. You want to gob off to the police, or square up, or threaten or posture then you'd better be prepared to be put on the floor. You want to fight the police, then be prepared to get hurt. And the public need to allow the police to get on with it rather than the public flaying officers get if they are perceived to be heavy handed.

The people who make the most noise about the police being OTT isn't generally the tax-paying employed public, it's the kindred spirits of those that end up in the cells. They're the first ones on the phone to the press or their solicitors looking for payouts due to the heinous behaviour of the local bobbies.

You can't have it all ways. You either have a paralysed police force, too scared to do their jobs for fear of being persecuted (and trust me, the Job drop you like a hot potato at the first hint of trouble. The police officer who fired the shot will currently be suspended no matter what the circumstances) or you have to let the police get on with it and accept some of it ain't going to be pretty.

pipipi

On the whole I give my full support to the police, in much the same way as your second paragraph details. I'd much rather the police had the backing to take action. I'd still want there to be tough penalties for those that over stepped the mark, like for the person who hit Ian Tomlinson.

I'm still confused by the logic that means that someone has been killed so someone needs to steal a telly. I think that's just scum.

And it's such a shame that the area with the most deprivation, has just been wrecked, so all the money that might, just might , have been spent on parks,youth centres etc will have to be spent on trying to put right some of the devastation.

Gazzaputt

Kicking off in Hackney.

FFS should be hitting these scum hard.

Tear gas and water cannons needed here.

Coach H

First posted on Commuting Chat, but just as relevent here.

OK, so I think we can all agree that the start point for the riots and looting was the Police shooting.

I’m not going to debate if there is a real link but it was the kick off point.

Now I am going to annoy some woolly jumper Liberals here but; if you give the Police guns, at some point they will shoot people with them FACT. Whether this is justified or not is not in question in my argument. If you give someone a tool don’t expect them not to use it and sometimes they will use it in a way you wouldn’t want them to.

So the only solution, to my mind, is for EVERY individual with feet on the ground in the UK to agree that when a Police Officer blows his whistle and wags his finger at you, you will stop doing whatever it is has caused this officer to blow his whistle. That way the Police will not need to have guns and they will not shoot anybody.

Expand this worldwide and everything turns to roses!! Surely no-one would stand against this.

The loss of any human live is a tragedy, but a lot of social commenter’s need to grow up or carry a Warrant Card for a while and see how difficult it is for these men and women to separate out the stereotypes and act without error in every case. What if 99% of the people you arrest and convict for burglary (for instance) are wearing a particular brand of check cap, what would YOU think about the 100th person you saw in said cap.

All I’m saying is don’t criticise any member of society from whatever class or circumstance unless you have been in their shoes.

I know this is the internet but really

Pross

I was quite young at the time but this reminds me of the early 80s with riots cropping up all over the place. I know people will say it's the economic conditions etc. but I still can't see any reason why that would lead people to burn down the homes of 26 neighbours who are facing the same problems. Just seems a convenient reason to cause mayhem in the same way as people used to use football and others use religious differences.

verylonglegs

Pross wrote:

I was quite young at the time but this reminds me of the early 80s with riots cropping up all over the place. I know people will say it's the economic conditions etc. but I still can't see any reason why that would lead people to burn down the homes of 26 neighbours who are facing the same problems. Just seems a convenient reason to cause mayhem in the same way as people used to use football and others use religious differences.

I did wonder today that if it were football fans behaving like that there would be no hesistation in giving them a hiding. Fair assumption?

lvquestpaddler

Just the start I reckon, history repeating itself- another Tory government cutting everything and selling off whatever public assets they can(Harder for "Round 2", utilites and housing were a doddle), still sucking from the Milton Friedman liberal economics teat....

Rather inconvenient I thought Hackney and the east end was the ugly boil on London's backside, hence the Olympics and the gentrification of the area at the taxpayers expense?

I think folk have had enough, being squeezed in every direction by unemployment, no affordable housing etc. When you have nothing you've nothing to lose eh?

dilemna

Pross wrote:

I was quite young at the time but this reminds me of the early 80s with riots cropping up all over the place. I know people will say it's the economic conditions etc. but I still can't see any reason why that would lead people to burn down the homes of 26 neighbours who are facing the same problems. Just seems a convenient reason to cause mayhem in the same way as people used to use football and others use religious differences.

+1.

Blimey I don't believe I agree with Pross .

Attacking buses and MacDs in Lewisham now plus looks like there will be riots in Hackney.

Time to get the army on the streets. The Home Sec to impose curfews and allow the army to shoot anyone on sight who is endulging in riot, civil unrest, thieving or general anarchy. I wonder if Cleggers has the balls? Teresa May might.

What an advert for Britain with the Olympics next year! The people doing this are anarchist thugs and thieves they deserve ot be shot. They are not protestors or demonstrators. The Chinese or Saudis wouldn't have any qualms shooting them so why do we as they threatening the fabric of our society.

Read Memoirs of a Survivor by Doris Lessing which is about the fall of society into anarchy.

lvquestpaddler

Yeah, the Chinese or Saudi model, that would be a good one to adopt....Dictatorship and totalitarian oppression come on down!....we're already working towards it anyway, right kids?

lvquestpaddler

Try reading The Shock Doctrine by Naoimi Klein....

verylonglegs

lvquestpaddler wrote:

Just the start I reckon, history repeating itself- another Tory government cutting everything and selling off whatever public assets they can(Harder for "Round 2", utilites and housing were a doddle), still sucking from the Milton Friedman liberal economics teat....

Rather inconvenient I thought Hackney and the east end was the ugly boil on London's backside, hence the Olympics and the gentrification of the area at the taxpayers expense?

I think folk have had enough, being squeezed in every direction by unemployment, no affordable housing etc. When you have nothing you've nothing to lose eh?

I think you are getting ahead of yourself..it's youths stealing trainers and ipods, not a revolution. They aren't desperate for food and the essentials.

Cleat Eastwood

If anyone's out rioting tonight near an Evan's can you get me a pinarello please, Ta

Gazzaputt

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

If anyone's out rioting tonight near an Evan's can you get me a pinarello please, Ta

Really f*cking funny that comment.

outcastjack

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

If anyone's out rioting tonight near an Evan's can you get me a pinarello please, Ta

Sorry I already have dibs

Cleat Eastwood

Gazzaputt wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

If anyone's out rioting tonight near an Evan's can you get me a pinarello please, Ta

Really f*cking funny that comment.

Glad you liked it.

thegreatdivide

verylonglegs wrote:

lvquestpaddler wrote:

Just the start I reckon, history repeating itself- another Tory government cutting everything and selling off whatever public assets they can(Harder for "Round 2", utilites and housing were a doddle), still sucking from the Milton Friedman liberal economics teat....

Rather inconvenient I thought Hackney and the east end was the ugly boil on London's backside, hence the Olympics and the gentrification of the area at the taxpayers expense?

I think folk have had enough, being squeezed in every direction by unemployment, no affordable housing etc. When you have nothing you've nothing to lose eh?

I think you are getting ahead of yourself..it's youths stealing trainers and ipods, not a revolution. They aren't desperate for food and the essentials.

What he said.

Time for some martial law.

Le Commentateur

lvquestpaddler wrote:

Rather inconvenient I thought Hackney and the east end was the ugly boil on London's backside, hence the Olympics and the gentrification of the area at the taxpayers expense?

There's the rub – property gentrification is more about the gradual winkling out of the have-nots rather than improving their prospects.

verylonglegs

I suspect it will probably carry on until some poor copper gets seriously injured/killed...then there will be hell to pay. I really do hope I'm wrong about that though.

daviesee

I feel as if is is groundhog day.

How are things in the Maldives?

Edit:- From May 30th - Not about taxes today but the riots are here

daviesee wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Is it the '80s again?

"We hate tories"

"we hate lefties"

Blah blah.

Looks that way to me.

After military involvements and a Royal wedding we are about due for the poll tax protest re-run.

What tax will it be about this time? Answers on a postcard................

ddraver

dilemna wrote:

Pross wrote:

I was quite young at the time but this reminds me of the early 80s with riots cropping up all over the place. I know people will say it's the economic conditions etc. but I still can't see any reason why that would lead people to burn down the homes of 26 neighbours who are facing the same problems. Just seems a convenient reason to cause mayhem in the same way as people used to use football and others use religious differences.

+1.

Blimey I don't believe I agree with Pross .

Attacking buses and MacDs in Lewisham now plus looks like there will be riots in Hackney.

Time to get the army on the streets. The Home Sec to impose curfews and allow the army to shoot anyone on sight who is endulging in riot, civil unrest, thieving or general anarchy. I wonder if Cleggers has the balls? Teresa May might.

What an advert for Britain with the Olympics next year! The people doing this are anarchist thugs and thieves they deserve ot be shot. They are not protestors or demonstrators. The Chinese or Saudis wouldn't have any qualms shooting them so why do we as they threatening the fabric of our society.

Read Memoirs of a Survivor by Doris Lessing which is about the fall of society into anarchy.

One of the better things about the recent tragedy in Norway was the way that the country rallied round each other and resolved to defend the values and democracy of their country

We get riots in Britain and people start spouting absolute sh*te like the above!

EKIMIKE

lvquestpaddler wrote:

Just the start I reckon, history repeating itself- another Tory government cutting everything and selling off whatever public assets they can(Harder for "Round 2", utilites and housing were a doddle), still sucking from the Milton Friedman liberal economics teat....

Rather inconvenient I thought Hackney and the east end was the ugly boil on London's backside, hence the Olympics and the gentrification of the area at the taxpayers expense?

I think folk have had enough, being squeezed in every direction by unemployment, no affordable housing etc. When you have nothing you've nothing to lose eh?

I'd agree with most of that.

And to the post about it being 'just kids looting', i'd suggest you're onto a bit of a red herring there. Unscrupulous individuals will always seek to leech off of these types of events. Even so, people in these areas are ultimately angry and it's not because they want new TV's.

The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer (this is an irrefutable fact). I guess the latter are reasonably justified in being disgruntled at these circumstances. Social deprivation is not something alot of us on here have truly been exposed to, let alone experienced it. If we were in their boots we'd be out on those streets, probably not looting, but expressing the anger they must feel.

My opinion - as a society which has been poisoned by the Chicago School (attributed mainly to Milton Friedman) free market ideologies, which stretch much further than simple economic policy, but rather shove an ever increasing wedge of inequality through our society, many of us have had enough.